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posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 09:21 PM
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The first weaponized use of directional radio was by the Nazi's in WWII.

Who took control of the former nazi high power radio towers after WWII?

"TWR".....supposedly a christian outfit to blast the 'word' around the globe. Why would a christian group need directional radio and where on earth have they been getting their fortune to power their millions of watts transmitters every year?? Why have they been TRIPLING their transmitting power the last year or two?

Look at the name of the top guy running that outfit and see if you notice a CIA familiy affiliation.....




posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 09:37 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
HAARP conspiracy theorists dont really know what they are talking about when "identifying" facilities and power

Eg here is one list of "worldwide HAARP ionospheric heaters"


HAARP (belting out MOAR than 1.21 GIGAWATTS!)
Gakona, Alaska, USA
Estimated >4 GW ERP : 2.8 – 10 MHz at 3.6 MW]

You know, here we go with science and probabiity.

I couch my ereply in suxh terms, because of an endless frustration here that if we don'r have certain epproved source, and a lack of photoshop "evidence," we will be dismised. And partucularly in this area, not just "debunked," but totally dismissed without belief.

This is what the other side wants. Nearly eceryone who has come forward has been forgotten aa the circle has
continued to be spun, and so on and so forth, no matter where you are. For rhose of us that know what I am speaking of, surely you see that it has been turned upside down, purposely and with malice, only in the effort to punish, whilst blaming what isn't to blame.


rlecpmtoniedTROMSO
Ramfjordmoen, Near Tromsø, Norway
1 GW : 222.8-225.4 MHz
(upgrading to 100 GIGAWATT in a move to pwn HAARP) Tromsø EISCAT 3D Details


SURA
Vasilsursk, Nizhny Novgorod Oblast, Russia
190 MW ERP- 4.5-9.3 MHz

ARECIBO
Arecibo, Puerto Rico
2.5 MW : 430 MHz (center frequency)

NMRF – NATIONAL MST RADAR FACILITY
Gadanki, Andra Pradesh, India
2.5 MW – 53 MHz

SUPERDARN – JICAMARCA
Lima, Peru
2 MW : 49.92 MHz

SHIGARAKI MU OBSERVATORY
Shigaraki MU observatory, Shigaraki, Japan
1 MW – 46.5 MHz

HIPAS
Fairbanks, Alaska. USA
High Power Auroral Stimulation Observatory
70 MW – 2.85-4.53 MHz

THE RUSSIAN WOODPECKER
“Woodpecker” Duga Radar Array, Chenobyl, Ukraine
РЛС Дуга-1 Чернобыль-2
(Radar arch-1 Chernobyl-2)

URAN VLBI (very long baseline interferometer)
Facilities: GURT, UTR-2, URAN-1, URAN-2, URAN-3, URAN-4
Ukraine

MAARSY
The Middle Atmosphere Alomar Radar System (MAARSY)
Andøya, Norway
800 kW – 53.5MHz

Poker Flat MST Radar
Imaging Riometer
Poker Flat, Alaska, USA


As has already been pointed out, HIPAs has been shut down and most of the equiment sold as surplus years ago

Shigaraki MU , MAARSY, Poker Flat, the Russian "Woodpecker" aer all atmospheric radars.

URAN VLBI is an interferometer for a radio telescope array - no longer functional.

the common feature of them and eth actual ionospheric heaters is that they all use similar arrays of vertical antenna or dipoles fixed to the ground.

and the power thing shows little understanding of what "Effective Radiated Power" (ERP) actually is.

To put it simply - a focused radio transmitter can achieve a higher power in a small area than a transmitter of the same power that transmits equally in all directions.

the "ERP" of a transmitter is the power that an unfocused transmitter would require in order to achieve the same power level at a given range over its entire shpere of transmission.

So HAARP uses 3.6 MW of power - but it focuses it onto a relatively small area. If an unfocused transmitter tried to achieve he same power level at het same range it would require up to 5 giga-watts of power to do so.

But HAARP itself does not transmit 5 GW. And simlarly the ERP's of other facilites reflect the efficiency gained by focusing the rtransmissions, not the actual power transmitted.

edit on 6-12-2012 by tetra50 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by Pervius
The first weaponized use of directional radio was by the Nazi's in WWII.


They might have fancied they could develop directed energy weapons - but those weer not "directional radio"

also www.abovetopsecret.com...


Who took control of the former nazi high power radio towers after WWII?

"TWR".....supposedly a christian outfit to blast the 'word' around the globe.


seems unlikely since they didn't get founded until 1952, and that was in Morocco to broadcast to Spain, and they dont' actually have any stations in Germany at all!!

they did take over a former German facility in Monte Carlo when Morocco nationalised all radio broadcasters in 1959 tho - not quite the same scale you are suggesting tho??


Why would a christian group need directional radio


Probably to beam their message to the godless communists.


and where on earth have they been getting their fortune to power their millions of watts transmitters every year?? Why have they been TRIPLING their transmitting power the last year or two?


Plenty of religious around the world funnel millions to their favourite cause - why would this be any different?


Look at the name of the top guy running that outfit and see if you notice a CIA familiy affiliation.....


You mean the current President Lauren Libby? Are you suggesting a relationship with Scooter Libby?

Scooter is, of course, Jewish and was born in connecticut, Lauren is Christian (duh) and was born in Kansas according to the profile at the link. Is there some other link?



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 11:07 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
So is this some kind of static earth theory of yours? How do they get a signature in tomography then? More spontaneous combustion?


It's magnetotelluric imaging. No shaking needed. Or happening.



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi

However, I, personally, believe that HAARP was designed to test and develop plasma weapons. Because that's what they do when they create aurora's and spirals and UFO lights.


Except the aurorae you create require image intensifiers to see, and the other two don't happen from HAARP.



Same as we're not going to be finding out, on the internet, how it's used in surveillance except that, supposedly, it could be used to detect incoming over the horizon. I can appreciate someone believing a government handout. Most of the serious researchers into HAARP have gone beyond glossy photos, though.


Except most "serious researchers" into HAARP - Begich for example - are buffoons. It's pretty obvious how you'd use the array (or something purpose-built elsewhere) to detect OTH. Any 'serious researcher' - i.e. someone who actually has a degree in the field and not, for instance, a mail order homeopathy PhD, would understand at least two mechanisms off the bat.




“It’s an open plasma-physics laboratory,” says Dennis Papadopoulos, a physics professor at the University of Maryland who helped conceive the idea for HAARP with the Naval Research Lab more than 30 years ago. “You test ideas and scientific theories. Then, if something’s important to the Department of Defense, you apply it.”



Bingo.




The Claim: HAARP is designed to take out satellites and missiles.
The late physicist Bernard Eastlund believed that HAARP was built using patents of his that included satellite- and missile-disabling technology.


If HAARP radiated HPM, then it would look like Eastlund's patent. Why would he not sue? Did he? Hm.



The Rebuttal: The Air Force, Navy and Darpa deny that they used Eastlund’s patents.


A truth.



Killing missiles and satellites would require injecting particles into the radiation belt, which is impossible.


A misdirection. No, have to say they lied on that one.



So, essentially, in order to make an informed, personal assessment, some sort of foundational understanding of ionospheric heaters, the atmosphere, cold plasma, ELF and RF, phased arrays, Tesla technology - would be needed. If the government, military et al wanted to confuse and mislead and disinform...this area would be taking candy from a baby.


There actually are people who understand some of that. But yes, like I said earlier, it's a hard topic most people won't put the time into understanding. And that statement is also the reason why you get techo-conspiracy theories. People DON'T understand much if any of it, so they can't make informed decisions on whether what they're reading is true, or possibly true, or a big porkie. Thus do you get Begich, who's capitalizing on FUD.
edit on 6-12-2012 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 11:32 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
Continuous? That's not what the HAARP site itself says.

HAARP FAQ


The HF Transmitter at the HAARP Research Station is used intermittently and is primarily operated to support research campaigns where groups of scientists collaborate to conduct interactive ionospheric research.



You're confusing terms. By "continuous" they don't mean 24/7 around the clock. The word's used to describe the emission type. HAARP runs in CW mode. The transmitter comes on, and you get the programmed power out. It's a linear amplifier, class AB on the finals.

The other one's a pulse output. You've got a resonant antenna design, you charge the two halves of the dipole so that you've got a really high potential between the two sides, and then you laser trigger a spark gap between the two. The antenna rings like a bell. You get a classic damped waveform. It's pulse, not continuous wave.



What about GWEN? That was another nomadic feat - disappearing overnight ( in the press anyway.)


And wasn't GWEN mostly underground anyway?


No, no, not at all. GWEN's dead. GWEN was a LF system that didn't depend on ionospheric bounce - it used ground wave propagation, thus the GW part of GWEN. If you have a nuke exchange or a few high altitude blasts, the ionosphere will become undependable for some time. In some places, you'll get enhancement to the point that it'll be tough to get VHF through it consistently. In others, it will be so ripply and distorted that HF will become capricious and unreliable. So what you do is not depend on ionospherics, and you radiate in ground wave instead. No bounce, no problems.

However, GWEN was an idea that was almost DOA. It's safer to use fiber optics for land lines - it's fantastically higher speed, GWEN was slow as crap - and it's also immune to EMP, and doesn't require a stable ionosphere.

Besides dedicated FO, they're using MEECN and Milstar, there was SLFCS for a while. GWEN's been gone. And SLFCS is supposedly gone too but isn't, they just call it something else. You still see SLFCS something else being put up all over Australia.

Oh, and it was never underground. It looks like any other LF dipole setup on first glance.
edit on 6-12-2012 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 11:46 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Phage
 



Not if it's a phased array. Pretty hard to do what HAARP does without a phased array.


Cosmic particle ignition of artificially ionized plasma patterns in the atmosphere


This invention is a method and apparatus for creating artificially ionized regions in the atmosphere utilizing ionization trails of cosmic rays and micro-meteors to ignite plasma patterns in electric field patterns formed by ground based electromagnetic wave radiators. The applications are useful for telecommunications, weather control, lightening protection and defense applications. The invention lowers the power requirements for forming artificial ionized regions in the atmosphere by a factor of up to 1600 times lower than those required in existing designs and projections for creation of artificial ionized regions in the atmosphere.



My background is in physics and specifically nuclear instruments. I read the page you cited here, and it doesn't make an iota of sense.



posted on Dec, 7 2012 @ 12:04 AM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 


It actually makes sense. I haven't seen the array used to do that but it would at least be possible TO do, or in what I'd call the realm of being possible. I'd have to see if the array can put enough power on target to do it that low in the atmosphere. You might not have enough power on target that low, and higher, you don't need it.

edit to add: It's in Bernardese. It's not written all that clearly but I see what he's talking about.

second edit to add: it's not necessary to do at all, though, if you've got a nice laser setup on the ground you can make them at will.
edit on 7-12-2012 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2012 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by Bedlam
reply to post by buddhasystem
 


It actually makes sense. I haven't seen the array used to do that but it would at least be possible TO do, or in what I'd call the realm of being possible. I'd have to see if the array can put enough power on target to do it that low in the atmosphere. You might not have enough power on target that low, and higher, you don't need it.


You are wrong. Read the following:


a1. A method of creating one or more artificially ionized regions in the air called cosmic particle ignition by synchronizing the establishment of an electric field pattern at an altitude above the earth's surface with the natural occurrence of ionization trails created by cosmic particles within the electric field pattern comprising: a. Detecting the position of the cosmic particle ionization trail with a detector array, b. Triggering an electromagnetic wave radiator to establish an electric field pattern at the location of the ionization trail, c. Holding the electric field pattern constant while the cosmic particle ionization trail ignites electrical breakdown of the air and fills the electric field pattern with plasma to create a plasma pattern, whereby an artificially ionized plasma region is created with lower electric fields and consequently much lower power levels than required for electrical breakdown in ambient air.

2. An electromagnetic wave radiator apparatus for said cosmic particle ignition method of creating one or more artificially ionized regions in the air comprising: a. a detector array for detecting the position and time of occurrence of a cosmic particle ionization trail at a desirable position, b. an electromagnetic wave radiator that can be triggered to radiate, c. a control system to hold the electric field strength constant while the breakdown process occurs and then to decrease the amplitude of the field pattern to a maintenance value of electric field strength.

3. The method of claim 1 wherein the cosmic particle is a primary cosmic ray or secondary cosmic ray electrons occurring at altitudes between sea level and 40,000 KM.

4. The method of claim 1 wherein the cosmic particle is a micrometeorite occurring at altitudes above 80,000 meters.


Really, there are just way too many red herrings in that. Consider 80,000 meters and densities of air at that altitude. Not much. More importantly, consider recombination times of ions and electrons in air. I'm too lazy to look it up now, but from previous experience and memory it's a really fast process. When I'm told that one can build an array that can detect a 3D pattern of an atmospheric shower and its precise timing, and then fire off a sequence of pulses in RF part of the spectrum, I can only laugh at that. That whole idea breaks down on many more levels than I can comfortably count. I'll recap two: even if you reconstruct the location of ionization in the upper atmosphere (which I doubt is possible in the first place), you can't project power with enough precision to make a difference. And, you won't have sufficient time to reconstruct that position from the detector array signal, by a factor of like ten thousand or a lot more. Nuh.



posted on Dec, 7 2012 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem

You are wrong. Read the following:


3. The method of claim 1 wherein the cosmic particle is a primary cosmic ray or secondary cosmic ray electrons occurring at altitudes between sea level and 40,000 KM.


That one's purest BS. You couldn't possibly do this that low due to recombination times.



4. The method of claim 1 wherein the cosmic particle is a micrometeorite occurring at altitudes above 80,000 meters.


That one's been exploited - COMET, AACMBC, AMBCS. You can easily get an ionized trail persisting long enough to use for communications in the 50km zone. There's a phased array antenna setup that spots meteor trails and uses them for comm links.



Really, there are just way too many red herrings in that. Consider 80,000 meters and densities of air at that altitude. Not much. More importantly, consider recombination times of ions and electrons in air. I'm too lazy to look it up now, but from previous experience and memory it's a really fast process.


Lower than 50km, it's probably not possible/worth it. Above, you're getting into some of the stuff that they're looking for - sporadic D, sporadic E, meteor trail communications and whistler ducting.

And we've been building systems that depend on these for years.

It's just that they're, well, sporadic.

What Eastlund's talking about (with the addition of several obvious BS claims to cover anything he forgot) is that you have times when you might want to keep this going for longer than you generally get in any one meteor trail.

The problem is, while you get plenty of ionization higher up, if you want it lower down you have to wait for some natural process to provide it. Once it recombines, no more comms until the next one.

But, here's the deal. If you can get some free electrons from the ionized trail, you can use them as seed to make more. The RF excitation will slam them into neutral gas atoms, and if you've got enough power, you can use that to form even more ions. So once you get a "pilot light" you can keep the trail alive by exciting the electrons. It's exactly what you do to cause ionospheric airglow with HAARP.

(edit for clarity here - you can't directly ionize the air with RF. What you need is some free electrons to work with, and use as little mallets. Lower down, these are pretty scarce. What you do is wait for a few to be made for you by a meteor or cosmic ray)

Obviously what's working against you there is the recombination time and the power level of your output. The lower it is, the harder it will be to keep that going. And if it's high enough, it'll be ionized anyway so it won't matter.

You also don't necessarily need to "locate the trail". While these trails are long lasting enough to use for communication links (it's not a couple of microseconds, btw, it can be several seconds long), you don't necessarily need to target a trail, although you certainly could. Just excite where you're getting meteor action and the first one that passes into your excitation volume will do the trick.

It's sort of like the starter in a fluorescent bulb.

Your topics are: meteor scatter propagation, "snotel", sporadic D, sporadic E.

edit to add: with a suitable laser setup, you could get your starter set by initiating a plasma bloom in your target volume. Or, lower down, you could (probably) produce a more-or-less continuous plasma bloom in his ground level to 40km zone. Hell, for that matter, you can use a plasma bloom as a fairly powerful RF emitter by using it to mix a couple of laser beams that aren't at the same frequency. A bloom is a non-linear paradise of weird RF effects.
edit on 7-12-2012 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)
edit on 7-12-2012 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2012 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Here's a little sentence from that same popsci article that could use a little more information (particularly in the use of the word 'zapping'):


And now, 15 years after construction on the station began, HAARP’s managers are seeing what the fully powered system can do; most recently, they’ve begun zapping the moon with the hope of determining the composition of its soil.



It's not hard to find information on this experiment - Rense has it covered, and the HAARP home page has 2 articles on it


Thx for these links.

The rense.com article says that the frequency used for this experiment was 7.4 and 9.4 mega herz.

HAARP Hits Moon With Radio Waves


During the experiment, which was carried out on Oct. 28 and 29, 2007, the radar signals from HAARP were at 7.4075 MHz and 9.4075 MHz.


The HAARP official site article says the wavelength used was 42 meters.

Calculation of the Expected Lunar Echo Receive Signal Strength


λ is the wavelength of the frequency used. For this experiment, the wavelength is 42 meters.


So that makes sense.

Frequency Wavelength Calculator

But help me out here and tell me, if you know, why this is unusual. (Keep it simple.)

HAARP Hits Moon With Radio Waves


The lunar echo measurements at 7.4075 MHZ are believed to be the lowest frequency (longest wavelength) at which bi-static radar measurements have been conducted.


The Effects of Earth's Upper Atmosphere on Radio Signals


The main frequency ranges allowed to pass through the atmosphere are referred to as the radio _ The radio window consists of frequencies which range from about 5 MHz (5 million hertz) to 30 GHz (30 billion hertz). The low-frequency end of the window is limited by signals being reflected by the ionosphere back into space, while the upper limit is caused by absorption of the radio waves by water vapor and carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. As atmospheric conditons change the radio window can expand or shrink. On clear days with perfect conditions signals as high as 300GHz have been detected.



3MHz is the lowest frequency which will pass through the ionosphere.


Is it because it's getting down close to this 5 mega herz or 3 mega herz limit and because it's man-made?



posted on Dec, 7 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by flyswatter
 





Your statement was something along the lines of this:
"From what I read, lightning originates in the ionosphere."


My statement was:



Lightning storms supposedly originate in the ionosphere so that's probably where one would go in order to agitate a storm like that.


It won't be me rewriting the book on the origins of lightning. It will be officialdom. The origins of lightning need to be explained because so far they are mysterious. My point was and is that as that book gets rewritten or written, as it were, let's be there to separate the man-made from nature. And let's object to man-made being trotted out as nature.



posted on Dec, 7 2012 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by flyswatter
 





Your statement was something along the lines of this:
"From what I read, lightning originates in the ionosphere."


My statement was:



Lightning storms supposedly originate in the ionosphere so that's probably where one would go in order to agitate a storm like that.


It won't be me rewriting the book on the origins of lightning. It will be officialdom. The origins of lightning need to be explained because so far they are mysterious. My point was and is that as that book gets rewritten or written, as it were, let's be there to separate the man-made from nature. And let's object to man-made being trotted out as nature.


The only "mysterious" thing is how exactly lightning forms in the troposphere. There are a variety of serious hypotheses (the most common being that it's friction from ice crystals and water droplets), but none of them say what you say, that "Lightning storms supposedly originate in the ionosphere" - which is just something you found in a five year old cached copy of a Wikipedia page.
edit on 7-12-2012 by Uncinus because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by flyswatter
 





Your statement was something along the lines of this:
"From what I read, lightning originates in the ionosphere."


My statement was:



Lightning storms supposedly originate in the ionosphere so that's probably where one would go in order to agitate a storm like that.


It won't be me rewriting the book on the origins of lightning. It will be officialdom. The origins of lightning need to be explained because so far they are mysterious. My point was and is that as that book gets rewritten or written, as it were, let's be there to separate the man-made from nature. And let's object to man-made being trotted out as nature.


There's a lot of information about it out there, you just need to take the time to digest it. What I find fascinating is that lightning (originating from the troposphere) can work itsself up from the tops of the clouds, not just down to Earth. I'm a relatively educated and intelligent person - knowing about where lightning originates is not rocket science, but learning about what allows it to propogate from the troposphere into the upper atmosphere is something that I havent really done yet. I do a lot of my posting from work (like I am now) so I dont really have that much time to read about it, but it seems interesting enough to read up about when I get some time at home.



posted on Dec, 7 2012 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by AndyMayhew
luxordelphi, could you give us a basic 101 on what the ionosphere is? Only it seems most people don't know much about it and have some strange ideas based on what they've seen on, er, dubious, websites.

Perhaps some info on how it affects the weather or at least the troposphere would be useful?

Taking into account the daily variations caused by solar acitivity and Earth rotation?

It might help support your assertions


I found some good links describing the ionosphere. Information about this area of the atmosphere is almost daily amplified. There is a lot to try to understand and know so a start needs to be made somewhere and, imo, plasma is a good place to begin.

#7. Plasma/NASA


Plasma is sometimes called "the fourth state of matter", beyond the familiar three--solid, liquid and gas. It is a gas in which atoms have been broken up into free-floating negative electrons and positive ions, atoms which have lost electrons and are left with a positive electric charge.



As noted, the Sun consists of plasma. Another important plasma in nature is the ionosphere, starting about 70-80 km above ground.



Here electrons are torn off atoms by sunlight of short wavelengths, ranging from the ultra-violet to X-rays: they do not recombine too readily because the atmosphere becomes increasingly rarefied at high altitudes and collisions are not frequent. The lowest part of the ionosphere, the "D layer" at 70-90 km, still has enough collisions to cause it to disappear after sunset. Then the remaining ions and electrons recombine, while in the absence of sunlight new ones are no longer produced. However, that layer is re-established at sunrise. Above 200 km, collisions are so infrequent that the ionosphere persists day and night.


The Properties of Plasmas


Plasmas in physics and chemistry are gases that have had some portion of their particles ionized. While plasmas have many properties similar to gases, they are sometimes referred to as the fourth state of matter in addition to solids, gases and liquids. This is because the electrical conductivity of the ionized particles gives plasmas unique characteristics. Some examples of plasmas are the Sun, fluorescent lights, flame and lightning.



Although plasma actually represents over 99 percent of the visible universe, it does not act in a way that scientists can always predict. It is difficult to create an accurate model of plasmas as a whole because they tend to act in different ways depending on how many particles are charged, the temperature of the plasma and the velocity of the particles. After the discovery of plasma, many physicists used the activity of plasma as the basis for nonlinear dynamics and chaos theory. As a result of this unpredictability, new discoveries are still being made in this state of matter.


That's enough for a start and begins to give an idea of why angels would fear to tread here and a possible reason why Begich titled his book, 'Angels Don't Play This HAARP'.



posted on Dec, 7 2012 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 




doesn't look like that much of either type of site was underground!!


You're leaving stuff out. You don't follow the money. You can't be a detective or an investigative reporter in 2012 without following the money trail. Remember how valuable copper became and how it was getting stolen because it was all of a sudden such a hot commodity?

Is There a GWEN Tower Near You?


Three hundred (300) ft. of copper wire fans out in a spoke like fashion from the base of the underground system, interacting with the earth like a thin shelled conductor, radiating radio wave energy for very long distances through the ground. The USA bathes in this magnetic field which rises to 500 ft, even going down to basements, so everyone is subject to mind control.



The whole artificial ground wave spreads out over USA like a web. It is easier to mind-control and hypnotize people who are bathed in an artificial electromagnetic wave.


But maybe, to some extent, you're right not to focus too much on this underground copper wire. I think the fiber optic network has become what pretty much reaches into everyone's backyard. Also, it's something that each person pays for - always a win win: when you can accomplish what you want and get other people to pay for it.



posted on Dec, 7 2012 @ 02:45 PM
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Can pylons and power lines be used to harness atmospheric energy ?
Im not actually asking. However if it is in fact true it means 100% profits for energy companies. Its probably also why the sudden moon visits are talked about on the news at a very extravagant cost lol only to the affordability of who? Looks more like bugging out to me because they know what is coming.

J = Just
E = Equal
S = Safe
U = United
S =Society
Which means those of the system of things will fall because they are failing. Failing because it is negatively contributing to the safety and well being of the planet. Money is the common denominator, at the center of the web.
It sits surrounded by Banks, insurance companies, energy companies, Airline companies, manufacturing companies, employment and education. All at cost and all of which are coming to more harm than good because of what we have allowed money become.

End of the world can be achieved by simply leaving an age behind, just as we did from the ice, and stone ages. We are in this one and soo its on to the next one. The problem is this time i want no-one left behind. Its my opinion that this time its make or break "All for one and one for all" by this i mean the countless trillions wasted on ventures off earth when Earth is where the hEart is. Aiming for the skies hoping to one day populate another planet, seriously? look what we have done to this one, look what we are capable of?
"The Day The Earth Stood Still" its a good film if you watch it with eyes open.



posted on Dec, 7 2012 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 




So while the camera flash is equal in strength to the stadium light, it's really not as powerful, as it only matches it during the actual flash, the "momentary peak output".


Just going to cut to the chase here. Remember in the early 2000's (you've said before that you live or have lived in SO CA) we had the rolling brownouts? Really was a big deal because it impacted on the traffic signals and we love our cars and one flashing yellow light can wreck things for miles. It was attributed to the lapse of a contract and an outrageously pricey interim solution.

Fast forward to 2012 or possibly the very last part of 2011. I'm in a different part of the country that requires air conditioning just to live. Things go along smoothly without problem until one day, all of a sudden, the electricity output becomes intermittant. Still paying the same price but getting, intermittantly, almost nothing for my buck. Calls to the power company etc. etc. produce the information that the existing wiring in the entire section is substandard and so they've had to cut their input in order to be safe. Wrecked several surge protectors and a number of batteries for me in the process.

So...once, twice...could still be coincidence but it is ringing some alarm bells. HAARP, in Alaska, says it's not on the local power grid for their 4 giga watt ERP. Don't know what HIPAS was doing as far as the local grid. But I'm suspicious.

You haven't convinced me that 'you have no power here' and, further, in Alaska, I would imagine, like some altitudes I've lived in, the most efficient heating remains the enclosed pot belly (or rectangular belly) that can be adjusted as far as oxygen flow. That's off the grid. Leaves a lot of power unused. Not adding up.



posted on Dec, 7 2012 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by flyswatter

Elves, which occur above areas of active cloud-to-ground lightning, may result from electromagnetic pulses extending into the portion of the atmosphere called the ionosphere.


You realize that this actually contradicts another portion of your argument, right? Electromagnet pulses that extend into the ionosphere indicates that they do not come FROM there, but they travel TO there. I dont recall anyone saying that the ionosphere is completely free of activity, only that it does not originate there.


No. My argument has nothing to do with where lightning comes from. It would be interesting to know, but, in the grand scheme of things, knowing that the tsunami could come from the butterfly, is not practical in the sense of day to day except, perhaps, in making a person more ecologically minded i.e. recycling etc.

My argument is the same as the chemtrail argument. We are on the brink of being told by TBTB where lightning comes from - it's in the nascent stages. Let's be vigilant. Let's not swallow fake lightning created by plasma weaponry as natural.

Let's differentiate, from the outset, between new discoveries of origin that have nothing to do with nature but are, in fact, man-made.



posted on Dec, 7 2012 @ 04:07 PM
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You have talked about sprites, jets, and elves which are really fascinating but the storms which produce them do not originate in the ionosphere. Lightning storms originate in the troposphere.


Yes...these are the phenomena that I've talked about. Phenomena that have been in the news since HAARP went online. Here's the difference between me and you: I look at the news as what 'they' want me to know and you look at it as fact. News took a left turn awhile back and just kept on going. They have become confused with the editorial page. That doesn't mean that we have to do the same thing. News is who, what, when, where and, if known, why and how. Opinions, propoganda, have no place on the news page - that's for the editorial section.

Lightning is like chemtrails, in the pseudo NSA science world. It's all natural. And you better believe it's natural and not HAARP initiated.

People, persons, though, are hungry for the truth.

Intermission:

Hungry Heart





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