Little HAARP's

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posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by luxordelphi
 





HAARP brags about being mostly off-line. Maybe that's because there are little HAARP's ready to do localized work.


So why is it bragging and not just a simple statement that they are off-line?






Cause its cool to be off line


Lux,

I love it keep it coming, persistence is the key, but what door are you really trying to open, do you know whats on the other side?




posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 12:38 PM
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The theory that there could be "mini-HAARPs" is plausible, I guess. Not that they'd be able to accomplish the same things that the installation in Gakona does, but I cant rightfully sit here and say that the theory is complete BS.

But what I do get a good chuckle out of is some of the information contained in the links of the original request. Things making mention that two of the "confirmed" uses of HAARP are weather modification and missile defense, or that the HAARP technology could be used to create lightning storms originating in the ionosphere, or that these facilities are purposely being built on fault lines.

If one believes that there are miniature HAARP-like facilities scattered all over the country (or the world), that is fine. But taking that belief and then jumping to a conclusion of what they are used for should come second to actually researching the technology (not just regurgitating someone else's belief about it) and finding out what the technology would actually be capable of doing. Once you know what it CAN do, THEN you formulate your theory of what it DOES do within those capabilities.



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 12:42 PM
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So why doesn't someone just go measure the radiation from one of these "mini-HAARPs", you'd blow the lid right off the whole scheme, the jig would be up, you'd save the world!

Unless it's just a cell-phone tower, that is.



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 



HAARP, specifically, is a reasearch facility. When you start saying things like "little HAARPs" you would be talking about little research facilities.

HAARP calls itself a research facility...similar to a ballistic missile calling itself a peacekeeper. If ionosphere-like conditions can be created at will, at sea-level, the whole thing can be miniaturized...or...a new breed of 'Hertzian antenna's' can be used. Just because HIPAS folded up their tents and nomadically moved on into the night, in and of itself means little.


Besides, as pointed out, his patents called for a system a thousand times more powerful than HAARP.

(See previous patent.)



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Phage
 



HAARP, specifically, is a reasearch facility. When you start saying things like "little HAARPs" you would be talking about little research facilities.

HAARP calls itself a research facility...similar to a ballistic missile calling itself a peacekeeper.


since HAARP cannot be shown with any credibility to actually be a weapon, why do you make this stupid claim?


If ionosphere-like conditions can be created at will, at sea-level,


Big "if" - got any evidence that they can be created at sea level?

If so what is it? If not how about pulling you head in. Both for a change!



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
3.6 mega watts is the power in. According to HAARP public relations hand-outs. 4 giga watts is the ERP factoring in the visible phased array and only that. The number depends on the accuracy of the 1st number. No allowances are made in the hand-out literature for auxilliary antenna's.


As Phage already explained, the ERP is not an actual power figure, it's the power that would be needed if it were broadcasting in all directions at one, omnidirectionally. Eastlund's figure of 1-100 GW was the power input (which is why he talked about needed a dedicated nuclear power station to power it - or all the natural gas, which was the real reason for the patent). The ERP for Eastlund's proposal would be in the 1-100 Petawatt range.



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by DerepentLEstranger
 



pity you used the trigger word chemtrail

Thx D for your support. The thing with the 'Little HAARP's' is that we could already be in a gigantic global networked HAARP. Steeples, cupolas, boulders, trees, brick facings...all can disguise antenna.

The thing with chemtrails is that aluminum, barium and strontium plumes could all serve as antenna as well. There is some similarity between a grid in the sky and the grid at Gakona.



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
If ionosphere-like conditions can be created at will, at sea-level, the whole thing can be miniaturized...


And how are you going to create a region of 1000 degree temperature, and near vacuum pressure at sea level?



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by tsurfer2000h
 



So why is it bragging and not just a simple statement that they are off-line?

Because, instead of speaking to issues that people have with HAARP, they say instead that it's mostly off-line anyway.



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by InhaleExhale
 



I love it keep it coming, persistence is the key, but what door are you really trying to open, do you know whats on the other side?

Thx for your cute post. The doors I'm looking at in this thread:

1. Are miniaturized HAARP's in backyards?
2. Are chemtrails the network that connect a global HAARP, backyard by backyard?
3. What is this low cost Hertzian antenna that HIPAS found that makes a phased array like HAARP's obsolete?
4. Counting the ways that antenna's can be disguised.



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by Phage


Originally posted by luxordelphi

This technology, known as 'Hertzian antennas,' can, "...match or exceed the peak power of the new HAARP system for a fraction of its cost."

Source?
"New" HAARP system?


Original source:
www.ann-geophys.net...

These experiments clearly showed that a coherent array of
laser triggered pulsed Hertzian radiators could be assembled
that can match or exceed the peak power of the new HAARP
system for a fraction of its cost.


What do these antenna look like? Well, the size is constrained by the wavelength you want to radiate at.

The antenna at HIPAS is 53m long ([wavelength]/2) with a
central pressurized SF6 spark gap. It is mounted 5 meters
([wavelength]/21) above a ground plane. It radiates at 2.85MHz. The
two antenna halves are charged to ± high voltages by a Tesla
coil. Spark gap voltages of 0.4 MV (at the instant of spark
gap closure) give peak RF currents of 1200A which correspond
to  14 MW peak total radiated power, or 56 MW
of Effective Radiated Power (ERP).




They have a smaller 80MHz version in the lab, but that's too high frequency to excite electrons.

So if you see a cell phone tower that's 173 feet wide, suspended above a metal grid, then get suspicious. Especially if there's 200 of them in a phased array.
edit on 5-12-2012 by Uncinus because: wavelength symbol fix



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by winofiend

HAARP uses antennas.

Cell Phone towers use antennas.

It's not rocket surgery, they both use antennas, therefore they are both obviously the same thing.

Any conspiracy theorist worth his salt knows how to make two things become one and then blame the bogey man for it. golly gee.. get with it.


so I guess he's complaining about all the hundreds of million (is it bilions yet??) of cell phones that cause earthquakes with their antennas??

not to mention TV's and radios....



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by flyswatter
 



But what I do get a good chuckle out of is some of the information contained in the links of the original request. Things making mention that two of the "confirmed" uses of HAARP are weather modification and missile defense, or that the HAARP technology could be used to create lightning storms originating in the ionosphere, or that these facilities are purposely being built on fault lines.

The Eastlund patents describing a HAARP-like facility make clear mention of weather modification. Missile defense, as far as disrupting communications, is, I believe, an openly admitted use for HAARP. Lightning storms supposedly originate in the ionosphere so that's probably where one would go in order to agitate a storm like that. As far as the facilities being built on fault lines: that wouldn't really be necessary. What would be necessary, in order to create an earthquake, imo, from what I've read, is to get the area vibrating at, I think, 2.5 hertz. That's in the ELF range and the creation of ELF as a bi-product of ionospheric heating is also an openly admitted aim of HAARP.

Project HAARP: Overview


The key document in the bunch is U.S. Patent number 4,686,605, considered by HAARP critics to be the "smoking raygun," so to speak. Held by ARCO Power Technologies, Inc. (APTI), the ARCO subsidiary contracted to build HAARP, this patent describes an ionospheric heater very similar to the HAARP heater invented by Bernard J. Eastlund, a Texas physicist. In the patent--subsequently published on the Internet by foes of HAARP--Eastlund describes a fantastic offensive and defensive weapon that would do any megalomaniacal James Bond super villain proud.



According to the patent, Eastlund's invention would heat plumes of charged particles in the ionosphere, making it possible to, for starters, selectively "disrupt microwave transmissions of satellites" and "cause interference with or even total disruption of communications over a large portion of the earth." But like his hopped up ions, Eastlund was just warming up.



"Weather modification," the patent states, "is possible by... altering upper atmospheric wind patterns or altering solar absorption patterns by constructing one or more plumes of particles which will act as a lens or focusing device." As a result, an artificially heated could focus a "vast amount of sunlight on selected portions of the earth."


HAARP FACT SHEET


DoD Involvement
Potential applications of the HAARP research include developing DoD technology for detecting cruise missiles and aircraft and for communicating with submarines.


Extremely Low Frequency Communications Program


The ELF frequency range is critically important to the Navy because of its value in providing a way to communicate with submerged submarines. As a result of the high electrical conductivity of sea water, signals are attenuated rapidly as they propagate downward through it. In effect, the sea water "hides" the submarine from detection while simultaneously preventing it from communicating with the outside world through normal radio transmissions.


USGS Response to an Urban Earthquake--Nortridge '94/The Olive View Hospital Building


Analyses of the data indicate that the structure was in resonance at frequencies between 2.5 and 3.3 hertz. These frequencies are also within the site-response frequencies of 2-3 hertz, calculated from examining the geological materials upon which the structure was built.



The Olive View Hospital building was conceived and designed as a very strong and stiff structure, particularly in response to the disastrous performance of the original OVH building during the 1971 San Fernando earthquake. However, the resulting design placed the fundamental frequency of the building within the frequency range of the site (2-3 hertz), thereby producing conditions for resonance.



This case study indicates that determining the site frequencies needs to be emphasized in developing design response spectra.



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by flyswatter
 



If one believes that there are miniature HAARP-like facilities scattered all over the country (or the world), that is fine. But taking that belief and then jumping to a conclusion of what they are used for should come second to actually researching the technology (not just regurgitating someone else's belief about it) and finding out what the technology would actually be capable of doing. Once you know what it CAN do, THEN you formulate your theory of what it DOES do within those capabilities.

The problem, as I see it, with a networked HAARP, in backyards as it were, is the ELF. If one can determine or even artificially change the existing frequency of a local area, then one can adjust that frequency by adding another frequency which will result in a frequency composed of the remainder.



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by luxordelphi
 

Eastlund claimed weather control was possible, with a much higher powered system. You don't have to prove that it can be done in order to have a patent granted but the more possible "uses" you can come up with the better the application looks.


Lightning storms supposedly originate in the ionosphere so that's probably where one would go in order to agitate a storm like that.
Lightning storms, like all weather, originate in the troposphere.



As far as the facilities being built on fault lines: that wouldn't really be necessary. What would be necessary, in order to create an earthquake, imo, from what I've read, is to get the area vibrating at, I think, 2.5 hertz. That's in the ELF range and the creation of ELF as a bi-product of ionospheric heating is also an openly admitted aim of HAARP.


ELF electromagnetic radiation does not cause earth to vibrate.
edit on 12/5/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 03:09 PM
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The Eastlund patents describing a HAARP-like facility make clear mention of weather modification. Missile defense, as far as disrupting communications, is, I believe, an openly admitted use for HAARP. Lightning storms supposedly originate in the ionosphere so that's probably where one would go in order to agitate a storm like that. As far as the facilities being built on fault lines: that wouldn't really be necessary. What would be necessary, in order to create an earthquake, imo, from what I've read, is to get the area vibrating at, I think, 2.5 hertz. That's in the ELF range and the creation of ELF as a bi-product of ionospheric heating is also an openly admitted aim of HAARP.


Missile defense by way of disrupting communications? Not that I am aware of. The only mention that I see is possible using it to detect them, not disrupt. If you want to say that the detection of them is what constitutes defense, then yes, the term "missile defense" fits.

Lightning storms do not originate in the ionosphere, so no go on that.

Facilities on the fault lines? I was only quoting what one of your links said. I think it was the second one that you posted.



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 03:13 PM
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HAARP by definition cannot affect the weather. Any more than a kettle can.

Despite many claims, it can't even make a pot of tea (HAARP, that is - a kettle is an intrical part of making a pot of tea (for any Americans out there, seawater is not))

Understand what the ionosphere is and then come back.

There is no honour in deliberately and knowingly spreading lies and nonsense. Nor in refusing to learn about what it is you purport to speak about.



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by Uncinus
So why doesn't someone just go measure the radiation from one of these "mini-HAARPs", you'd blow the lid right off the whole scheme, the jig would be up, you'd save the world!

Unless it's just a cell-phone tower, that is.


These, imo, are very interesting points and go directly to the heart of the backyard little HAARP. The 'palm tree' in this video:

Punked by a Palm Tree

is identical to a palm tree in my area. The one in my area is allegedly owned and operated by T-mobile. Or maybe not. One night I had trouble with signal on an android. Even getting it into a direct line of sight with this palm tree didn't help. Some calls and app downlloads later determined that it was a cell tower; had been a cell tower for some time BUT was not online and had never been online. It receives somehwat regular maintenance of some kind. There are some real palm trees in close proximity which wilt and get dead looking at times and then seem to revive again. So I think it's in use but obviously not as a cell tower.

If you know of a link that would show me how to make something on the cheap to measure it with - that would be cool. I guess what I would want to measure would be herz?



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
The problem, as I see it, with a networked HAARP, in backyards as it were, is the ELF. If one can determine or even artificially change the existing frequency of a local area, then one can adjust that frequency by adding another frequency which will result in a frequency composed of the remainder.


I'd use the Starship enterprise to achieve that - much simpler.



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 



since HAARP cannot be shown with any credibility to actually be a weapon, why do you make this stupid claim?

Because the navy and the air force operate the program and the funding goes to DOD.


Big "if" - got any evidence that they can be created at sea level?


Cosmic rays and cloud formation


CLOUD is an experiment that uses a cloud chamber to study the possible link between galactic cosmic rays and cloud formation.



The initial stage of the experiment uses a prototype detector, but the full CLOUD experiment will include an advanced cloud chamber and a reactor chamber, equipped with a wide range of external instrumentation to monitor and analyse their contents. The temperature and pressure conditions anywhere in the atmosphere can be re-created within the chambers, and all experimental conditions can be controlled and measured, including the ‘cosmic ray’ intensity and the contents of the chambers.


Cosmic particle ignition of artificially ionized plasma patterns in the atmosphere


1. A method of creating one or more artificially ionized regions in the air called cosmic particle ignition by synchronizing the establishment of an electric field pattern at an altitude above the earth's surface with the natural occurrence of ionization trails created by cosmic particles...



3. The method of claim 1 wherein the cosmic particle is a primary cosmic ray or secondary cosmic ray electrons occurring at altitudes between sea level and 40,000 KM.





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