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posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 




I think you assume 300 distance between adjacent towers, which is totally weird and can't possibly be true.


Yes...it was 300 miles, not 300 feet. The 300 feet was for the underground, radiated copper wire. The transmission distance claimed was up to 300 miles although with sharp drop-off.



First off, GWEN towers have nothing in common with cell towers...


The point was that if I call a GWEN tower a cell tower, what is it really? The government/military have gotten really good at the marketing angle. They call missiles, peacekeepers, and HAARP a research facility. Chemtrails are called contrails or sunscreen etc...




posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
The point was that if I call a GWEN tower a cell tower, what is it really? The government/military have gotten really good at the marketing angle. They call missiles, peacekeepers, and HAARP a research facility. Chemtrails are called contrails or sunscreen etc...


These terms have meaning. The term "cell tower" denotes a structure used for communicating with cell phones, and will be designed for, roughly, 700MHz to 2700MHz, depending on the carrier and band.

The term "GWEN tower" denotes a structure used for LF transmission about 160kHz, and a number of sidelinks in the 400MHz range.

It's not straightforward hiding the LF component of GWEN - you can't radiate 160kHz with a whip on top of the tower or something - that's why you see the long radials on GWEN towers.

Saying "I want to call a cell tower a GWEN tower, therefore it is that" is something I would have thought beneath you.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 




Ha. No, my claimed expertise is the array, exciter to antennas. Cross my palm with enough silver, and I'll design you one better than Gakona.

YOU asked how the 3.6MW number was derived, and you've been fixated on diesel engines since. Soul catcher gadget? Over that way ----> are the forums for that sort of thing. Seriously? Soul catcher gadget? I had sort of thought of you as inquisitive but technically uninformed, but that one, hm.


Just want to take this opportunity to thank you for your explanations of power input and antenna amplification to ERP in this thread and the other one. Without that, I would still be stuck in 1st. But now I know where predictable ends and what it includes and where unpredictable and non-linear begin and the statements from people you've ragged on start to make sense.

HAARP, or little HAARP's or Colossus HAARP, as a soul-catcher gadget, is going beyond what electromagnetic fields do to a lump of flesh, like the brain. But maybe we could start with that - the brain.

10 Things an Electromagnetic Field Can do to your Brain



That doesn't make sense at all. Generally, you at least have some common thread to a statement but I can't pluck it out of that one.


The original argument on who owned what patents and when is link luxurious. The original argument on Eastlund saying his patents were used and the military saying they weren't used was covered elsewhere. You side with the military because you say that the frequency used in Eastlund's patent was different than the frequency that HAARP claims. And because Eastlund would have sued, had his patents been used. And because Eastlund patents use more power than HAARP claims.

And these are good arguments except that Eastlund, himself, claimed that his patents were the blueprint. So it's a question of who do you trust(or whom do you trust without marketing license.)



"pre determined trajectories"? Hardly. ELF is huge. No focus, no target.


So are you saying that ELF, produced in HAARP operation, is not deflected by the ionosphere? The electrojet is not used as an antenna for ELF? This arrangement does not non-linearly amplify the power?

Geometric modulation: a new, more effective method of steerable ELF/VLF wave generation with continuous HF heating of the lower ionosphere


When beam motion is along an azimuth, an unprecedented ELF/VLF phased array is effectively formed, allowing steerability of ELF/VLF waves.


Experiments conducted at the HAARP facility in August and September, 2007,comprise the first tests of this new technique. We demonstrate that geometric modulation enhances ELF/VLF amplitudes from modulated HF heating by as much as 7-11 dB. This enhancement is particularly strong above 3 kHz, and at longer (hundreds of km) distances from HAARP. We also demonstrate that geometric modulation allows the directing of the signal in the Earth-ionosphere waveguide.


In addition, the ability to direct ELF/VLF radiation along a chosen direction to substantial distances has heretoforth been an unachievable goal, due to the need for an array of phased ELF dipoles, themselves separated by distances comparable to a wavelength. We present here the first experimental verification that the technique of geometric modulation, in introducing this capability, has effectively formed the world's first ELF phased array.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by luxordelphi
 


10 Things an Electromagnetic Field Can do to your Brain.
HAARP produces electromagnetic radiation.
That is not the same thing as an electromagnetic field.

I've had a couple of MRIs. Now that is a pretty spectacular electromagnetic field. I didn't feel anything during or after.
edit on 12/12/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
HAARP, or little HAARP's or Colossus HAARP, as a soul-catcher gadget, is going beyond what electromagnetic fields do to a lump of flesh, like the brain. But maybe we could start with that - the brain.

10 Things an Electromagnetic Field Can do to your Brain


If you look at the points, they all involve way WAY more (and generally a different sort) of a field than HAARP produces. If I've got to put your head in an induction helmet to get that, it's not going to compare to radio waves from quite a distance away.




And these are good arguments except that Eastlund, himself, claimed that his patents were the blueprint. So it's a question of who do you trust(or whom do you trust without marketing license.)


You ever see Eastlund unequivocally stating WHICH patents they were violating, and how? He's got a number of them. That one upthread about extending meteor scatter times I could see him griping about - it's the sort of thing you might be able to pull off. The ARCO gas field -> microwave ->rectenna ones, not so much, there's not a lot of overlap.




So are you saying that ELF, produced in HAARP operation, is not deflected by the ionosphere? The electrojet is not used as an antenna for ELF? This arrangement does not non-linearly amplify the power?


I'm saying ELF can't be aimed. It's a huge waveform, goes all over. Hell, your Schumann resonance base frequency is the size of the EI system in diameter. It's not like you can target something with it.




We also demonstrate that geometric modulation allows the directing of the signal in the Earth-ionosphere waveguide.


Oddly enough, if you search upthread, you'll find I mentioned geometric modulation long before you found this. Wow! If you like, I can tell you how it works in a much more understandable way than your link.


What they're talking about is setting the E/H field vector direction. Instead of randomly radiating across the EI waveguide, they can pick the vector. So, if you like, you can get a wave 2000 miles long that fills the EI waveguide with a direction that's not circular or primarily equatorial. But as you've pointed out, it just goes everywhere.

edit to add: there's a limit even on this, the electrojet runs in one direction and you can only orient the modulation so far to one side - it works optimally if you set your pattern along the jet, it doesn't work at all perpendicular to it.

The previous method also created ELF in the EI waveguide, and there's another trick they use to get ULF that's unrelated to either of these. But geometric modulation is the best method for generating ELF, in that it gets you a bit more power output. AM modulation of the electrojet got you maybe 8W.

Since you embrace this paper as not "marketing literature", I must take the opportunity to point out this:



For instance, ELF generation via modulated heating of the auroral electrojet radiates ELF power in the Earth-ionosphere waveguide on the order of 10s of Watts, despite injection of HF power in the MW range


Total power. 10s of Watts. And in fact, 30W is about what you can get on a good night, when all the random factors line up perfectly. 30 Watts. Now, considering you've got to distribute that power over the surface of the Earth, the power density must be...low. Unimaginably low. So in this case, the "non linear amplification" you can get for some processes is more like non-linear attenuation, since you put in 3.6MW and got 30W out. However, that's way better than what you got at Sanguine or Seafarer, which took about twice the input power to get 5-6W out.
edit on 12-12-2012 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)
edit on 12-12-2012 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 07:34 PM
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Ok, don't know if this will work or not:

Try this link...


At the bottom are some small but nice figures. Go to 7/7. That's the polar pattern of the "directionality" they got. You'll note that at the higher frequencies, and we're talking 5 kHz, which is pretty high for ELF, you see a directional bias. That's the light gray ring that's slightly offset to one side. I tried to get this in a bigger format but no luck so far.

Now, at 5kHz, you've got a wavelength of 60kM, that's small enough you probably CAN sort of direct it, but note that it's going to be big and blobby, and by "direct" I mean it's going to have at least some directional bias, although not a lot, as you can see. You can't "focus" it on something like a submarine, because with a wavelength that size, you're going to have a focal spot of about 30kM on a good day. That is, however, a BIG improvement over what you'll get at a Schumann resonance frequency which will just wrap around the planet.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 

Looks like it's not really "aimed" just not as much loss in a given direction.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by Phage
 


You can't get those pretty tear-drop shaped patterns you'd like with a wave 60km wide.

You can, however, sort of get the e-field vector more vertical that way, and that makes it easier for subs to receive, if they still did that. Way back, the AM modulation mode didn't get you a nice vertical vector, which made it even crappier than you'd have to put up with otherwise.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 




Tesla

So is this what the HAARP phased array looks like when it's running?



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
So is this what the HAARP phased array looks like when it's running?


Only if something very, very bad has happened.

It's considered poor form to sit in the array on a lawn chair when it's on, as well. Something to do with near field dissipation.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 


I think he's on a camp chair - look again. Also it's only a 22 foot discharge.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 03:15 PM
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reply to post by luxordelphi
 

No. This is what the IRI at HAARP looks like when it is operating.

edit on 12/13/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
So is this what the HAARP phased array looks like when it's running?


I can't tell whether you asking this in jest, or really have no concept of the subject matter. Or some mix of the two.



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by luxordelphi
 

No. This is what the IRI at HAARP looks like when it is operating.


and this is what it looks like when it is not operating:


edit on 13-12-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by luxordelphi
So is this what the HAARP phased array looks like when it's running?


I can't tell whether you asking this in jest, or really have no concept of the subject matter. Or some mix of the two.


There is method. Whether constructive or not; you will judge. Bedlam had said:



The "Hertzian antenna" thing that was being discussed upthread is the pulse transmitter - it's basically a spark gap sort of rig.


To which I had responded:



So is this (does it look like) the pictures one finds on the net of Tesla with two giant poles and huge lightning in between?


And Bedlam replied:



Not much - it looks like a really insulated dipole antenna with a big lump in the center, where you've got a SF6 spark gap and an HV charging system.


Imagine now, my dilemma. There are lots of posts to answer. I am way behind. I have no idea what an sF6 spark gap looks like in operation.

After reading about spark gaps for pulsed systems:

Spark Gaps for Industry


Spark Gaps are normally two connection devices which arc over at some preset voltage. The voltage is set by choosing the gap width and the gas pressure inside the device. These are set at the time of manufacture and are not field changeable. EG&G has a website describing their range of gaps although some of them are not allowed to be shipped out of the U.S.A. without an export license.


A look-see on the EG&G website fails to provide me with a picture of what an sF6 spark gap looks like in operation.

I decide to try and flush out a picture (similar to the person in charge of beating the bushes in a duck shoot). All that gets me is some information on lawn chairs and the dangers of lounging within the HAARP array.

Phage puts up a picture of supposedly HAARP in action. I can't verify it. Although I know it can't be real because previous posters have told me that HAARP is barely powerful enough to heat a tea kettle and I don't see any tea kettle in the photo.

So...there it is, hope this helps.
edit on 13-12-2012 by luxordelphi because: change F to G on EG&G



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 09:46 PM
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Hang on, let me see if I can find a picture of a similar spark gap.

That's HIPAS, I visited there once long ago but they weren't working on this at the time. Can find you lots of papers on this thing, mostly they've got math but no photos.

Nope, can't find a single photo. What you want to look for is "high voltage low jitter laser triggered spark gap", with SF6 as a fill gas. They generally use KrF lasers as a trigger. I can find beaucoup scientific papers on it, pretty much no photos at all.

second edit to add: I suppose you could find out who at HIPAS was doing the Hertzian antenna thing and ask what model and manufacturer they used, I doubt they made one from scratch, although they might have.
edit on 13-12-2012 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2012 @ 11:49 PM
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reply to post by Bedlam
 




Not much - it looks like a really insulated dipole antenna with a big lump in the center, where you've got a SF6 spark gap and an HV charging system.


Thx, Bedlam, for trying to find a picture of this. I tried too. I also tried to find pictures of HAARP in operation. My searching returned two pictures, neither of which I could verify. Basically I'm exhausted with it - seems like if there's nothing to hide, pix of HAARP in action would blare from the media i.e. nothing to see here.



It's also an article about trying to induce psychic powers in people. One with no data, no analysis, no replication. Hell, if you like, I'll get one of our scratch pages, write you an article saying I built all that stuff without being able to replicate a bit of it, and then you'll have a Real Web Article to link to, with exactly the same amount of validity.


In my previous post I gave a link on the brain. Said we'd start with flesh and gradient our way into higher consciousness. Like I said, I don't have graphs, charts etc. for population groups subjected to mood and moral altering ELF, but, I know they exist. For an individual to observe that, within themselves, though, it takes a starting point of 'know thyself.' And that presupposes keen observation introspectively and yet objectively. Hard to do so we start with the brain.



Then I'll ask, could it be related to increased cosmic ray activity, or the time that the guy next door goes over to the 7-11 and gets a coffee, or to that godawful Jersey Shore program?


What a way to trash a succint statement linking increased lightning activity to global warming. Yes...I believe there is a media effort underway to link the increase in global lightning to cosmic rays. So far, I believe, there is no link - cosmic ray activity has decreased. But it's coming because linking it to HAARP is military industrial complex-incorrect. Do I believe that lightning comes from the ionosphere? Yes, in a personal favorite, butterfly-tsunami, kind of a way - I do. Do I believe that this avenue will be allowed exploration in the current scientific media represented climate? No, I don't. Because HAARP is heating the ionosphere. And because HAARP has absolutely no impact on anything whatsoever.



My God. Bibliotecleyapades actually linking to a real article? It's unprecedented.


There are a bunch of actual studies linked in that article (the section on lightning). Being a pawn of media is, imo, a personal choice. Having a good reason for misleading is also, imo, unacceptable. I already have parents. I do not require redundancy, in the form of parents, from my government.



The Earth produces "ELF du jour" by itself. BTW, what do you think the output power HAARP can get from the electrojet has been? Max, avg, I don't care. Take a stab.


I don't know. I know you mentioned it previously and I looked through your posts but couldn't find. But, whatever it is, iyo, be sure you add 11db to it b/4 tossing it out. What do you suppose the difference is between ELF produced through natures' cycles and agitating the ionosphere in order to produce ELF in conflict with natural cycles?



Not if you're positing that ELF can convey voices, information, images, hallucinations.


No. I have never even inferred that. The only information that ELF conveys to the human being is the frequency itself. In this case, the frequency is the message.



Your question was something on the order of "How does ELF reach submarines". Quit scoooooting those goal posts.


Fair enough. How did submarine crews react when bathed in artificial ELF? We'd have to look at something statistical on submarine incidents. There's not alot available.

List of submarine incidents since 2000


Since the year 2000, there have been twenty major naval incidents involving twenty-two submarines: nine American submarines, five Russian, five British, two Canadian, one Chinese, one Australian, and one French.


Timeline: Worst nuclear submarine incidents

Sorry - no stats that I can find during GWEN operation.



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by luxordelphi

Don't use what at all?


ELF. It's one with last winter's snows.

We dropped it. The land based transmitters are off line. You no longer hear Sanguine or Seafarer on the air. The equipment has been sent to the DRMO. It's hopped the twig. It's shuffled off this mortal coil. It's run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible. It is an ex-project.

Word's been sort of unnaturally slow to make it around the CT circuit for some reason. These days subs use VLF or something else, which is sort of cool in and of itself but not for discussion.

We've got LOTS of VLF rigs going up. It's sort of odd that all the guys taking pics of cell towers and GWEN didn't post any of it.


No comment. Except to say then that there's no more need to produce ELF using HAARP. And we shouldn't be measuring anymore of that.



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi

Thx, Bedlam, for trying to find a picture of this. I tried too. I also tried to find pictures of HAARP in operation. My searching returned two pictures, neither of which I could verify. Basically I'm exhausted with it - seems like if there's nothing to hide, pix of HAARP in action would blare from the media i.e. nothing to see here.


I'm not sure why triggered spark gaps seem to be underrepresented on the net. I am familiar with them, but never designed a system that way, so I don't have a spark gap catalog in my repertoire. I know how the thing works but it's not the sort of thing I design with. Spark gap transmitters are a lost art.

As far as the IRI goes...that's a really good photo. That's it. Potato stamped a number of times. The trailer looking thing is a transmitter shed, each one's got 12 D616G's in it, and drives six sets of antennae. There's 30 trailer modules altogether, 180 antenna assemblies. It doesn't look any different on or off. You can hear the switchover relays click and the tuners make a sound when they autotune. But nothing lights up or sparks, unless something's gone really wrong.



And that presupposes keen observation introspectively and yet objectively. Hard to do so we start with the brain.


It would be interesting to find something clear cut that uses "in vivo" ELF levels. So far all I've found are studies that use comparatively immense levels of E and H fields, although smaller than I would have thought necessary, I'll give you that one. I am intrigued with ways to misuse this, although I don't have time for that sort of thing these days. Unless we get a bid like that one we got in 2005 (there, a new year, framedragged!). I live for the quirkier RFQs.



What a way to trash a succint statement linking increased lightning activity to global warming. Yes...I believe there is a media effort underway to link the increase in global lightning to cosmic rays. So far, I believe, there is no link - cosmic ray activity has decreased.


A pity - cosmic rays and micrometeors are two proven initiators of lightning strikes. And gamma rays go up during thunderstorms for whatever reason. However, "global warming" is one of those things with a great many confounders. For example, increased warming increases water transport, more clouds, more thunderstorms. You'd have to have some concrete example as to why raising the local ionospheric electron temperature a few hundred degrees would induce lightning when the solar input during the day does much more.




There are a bunch of actual studies linked in that article (the section on lightning). Being a pawn of media is, imo, a personal choice. Having a good reason for misleading is also, imo, unacceptable. I already have parents. I do not require redundancy, in the form of parents, from my government.


Bibliotecleyapades is prone to link to stories on unicorns and bigfoot, much like 'educate yourself'. I was happily surprised to see them stick with more realistic links for an entire article. If they keep that up, I might have to start reevaluating my opinion of them.



I don't know. I know you mentioned it previously and I looked through your posts but couldn't find. What do you suppose the difference is between ELF produced through natures' cycles and agitating the ionosphere in order to produce ELF in conflict with natural cycles?


The difference is - none. An EM wave is an EM wave. But the total generated output using geometric modulation has reached in the low 30's of Watts. Like 32. That's measured output. Not from the array, but from the electrojet. That's a peak, the output using AM modulation is about 8W, the ULF output is in the milliWatts.



No. I have never even inferred that. The only information that ELF conveys to the human being is the frequency itself.


Many ELF CTers postulate that "ELF mind control" includes a lot of high-datarate phenomena, glad to see you are not one.



Fair enough. How did submarine crews react when bathed in artificial ELF?


"Bathed in" is a bit incorrect, when subs had to use superconducting quantum interference devices to receive it. Recall, a 70ish Hz signal is just sort of everywhere at once, you can't "aim it" at a sub. It's ubiquitous. You, too, were bathed in signals from Sanguine and Seafarer. It's just that you're spreading about 8W over the entire world surface, so the energy per square meter is phenomenally small. Then, too, you lose some of that on the way to the sub, don't have my Sanguine manuals here, it's like a db per meter or something, really awful. I'll be home for Christmas, if I remember to look I will dig through the archives at work, it's still in there.



posted on Dec, 14 2012 @ 12:27 AM
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Originally posted by luxordelphi
No comment. Except to say then that there's no more need to produce ELF using HAARP. And we shouldn't be measuring anymore of that.


The ionospheric guys use ELF from HAARP to do all sorts of crap. It being used for a backup to Sanguine and Seafarer was one of those serendipitous things you occasionally find. A bad part of having to depend on it, if you did, is that you can't do it very well during the day, and you can't always get to the electrojet at night, either. It's not always the right "weather" for making ELF.

You can find a lot of scientific papers on WHAT they do with it, it's in Egghead though.

You might start with the Gubmint Recommended Paperwork, go google up Dr Helliwell's work at Siple Station, Antarctica, he laid out a VLF antenna and did a lot of the groundwork that presaged HAARP's use of ELF/VLF. When I'm home, again if I remember to do it, I'll see if I can find the quote sheet, there's a list of Helliwell's papers they recommended, but they're all on the net somewhere. But in short, one thing you use ELF or VLF for is to manipulate electron trajectories in the inner magnetosphere. Remember that thing you posted about Johns Hopkins putting a satellite up? Bingo.





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