Jizya - A tax that you must pay for not accepting Islam

reply to post by butcherguy


You're acting like Islam was invented in the year 2000.

Originally posted by svmpua
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

LOL in western countries 'each and every' person has to pay tax irrespective of his/her religious background.
But here we are talking about 'tax' that is only to be paid by 'non muslim's'.

I understand that but if you had the option to pay a tax or die, what would you take, and of course you have no other option? I'd be paying the tax over watching my wife and children slaughtered. It may be ridiculous and I agree, but the reality is that its implemented in those countries and the people in those countries really don't have a choice.. Pay it or pay for it sums it up.

The jizya was levied on non-Muslims by the Umayyad dynasty. It's true it was an unfair tax on non believers. However, it's important to realize that Christians, Jews, and Zoroastrians were all allowed to practice their own faiths as long as they paid the tax. After a while though the Umayyad got too accustomed to their lavish lifestyle from all the tax income and lost the spiritual side of their religion. Hate and discontent rose among the people paying jizya as well as Shia Muslims.

Most other conquering cultures I can think of did NOT allow those who were conquered to keep their own identities and culture. The Christians never allow conquered cultures to keep their faith. Any deviation from Roman Catholic tradition would result in ex-communication and a crusade, of which there were over a dozen. I would say Christianity is the one being spread at the point of a sword more than Islam was. True, Muhammad was a military genius for some reason, and never lost a battle, but there were plenty of other reasons for Islam's popularity and spread.

So if you're trying to say that they Muslims were completely out of line for charging non-believers a tax, you need to get more perspective on what was happening in the 7th century.

A tax would have been the least of most people's concerns.

Originally posted by DeadSnow
reply to post by svmpua

 

First off, Sharia law and the Qur'an only apply to Muslims...

Secondly..

..why should we fear? We already pay a s*** load of taxes.

Jizya is applied to Non Muslims.
You may not be affected now because you live in a western country.But their are many non muslims living in Islamic countries who unfortunately have to pay this tax.
And the rate which Muslims are breeding,don't be too sure that they will not populate your country too.
Egypt is a good example.

A tax would have been the least of most people's concerns.

You are absolutely right my friend.A tax is relatively nothing compared to these atrocities committed against non- believers by Islam ->

True Quotations from the Koran about killing Christians:

reply to post by svmpua

Or the atrocities committed by Christians against non-believers.

The individuals who participated in the first Inquisition 800 years ago kept detailed records of their activities. Vast archival collections at the Vatican, in France and in Spain contain accounts of torture victims' cries, descriptions of funeral pyres and even meticulous financial records about the price of torture equipment. "[There are] expense accounts [for things] like how much did the rope cost to tie the hands of the person you burnt at the stake," says writer Cullen Murphy. "The people who were doing interrogations were meticulous."

The Inquisition: A Model For Modern Interrogators


(Heretics being nailed to stakes by Christians.)

What's your point?

Originally posted by DeadSnow
reply to post by butcherguy

 

You're acting like Islam was invented in the year 2000.

Could you be more specific, so that I might know how to respond?

I am well aware of the 'age' of Islam. I am not sure what I posted that would make you say that/

reply to post by butcherguy


Well the fact that everyone is afraid of something that's been with us for the last couple of hundred years. I'm pretty sure Muslims pay taxes and besides the Quran forces them to pay Zak-at, i.e give to the needy.

Originally posted by ZeroReady
reply to post by svmpua

 

Or the atrocities committed by Christians against non-believers.

The individuals who participated in the first Inquisition 800 years ago kept detailed records of their activities. Vast archival collections at the Vatican, in France and in Spain contain accounts of torture victims' cries, descriptions of funeral pyres and even meticulous financial records about the price of torture equipment. "[There are] expense accounts [for things] like how much did the rope cost to tie the hands of the person you burnt at the stake," says writer Cullen Murphy. "The people who were doing interrogations were meticulous."

The Inquisition: A Model For Modern Interrogators

(Heretics being nailed to stakes by Christians.)

What's your point?

LOL
I made this thread because I wanted people to know about Jizya. This is not about who committed more atrocities against whom.Taxation is the topic being discussed.
But since you persist ,I present to you this,my dear friend ->

1,400 Years of Islamic Aggression: An Analysis

Originally posted by ZeroReady
reply to post by svmpua

 

Or the atrocities committed by Christians against non-believers.

The individuals who participated in the first Inquisition 800 years ago kept detailed records of their activities. Vast archival collections at the Vatican, in France and in Spain contain accounts of torture victims' cries, descriptions of funeral pyres and even meticulous financial records about the price of torture equipment. "[There are] expense accounts [for things] like how much did the rope cost to tie the hands of the person you burnt at the stake," says writer Cullen Murphy. "The people who were doing interrogations were meticulous."

The Inquisition: A Model For Modern Interrogators

(Heretics being nailed to stakes by Christians.)

What's your point?

What teachings of Christ do these acts follow?

If you read the Koran and learn about the historical figure Mohammad, you will find that he conquered the Arabian Peninsula and forced submission to the will of Allah using force(troops with swords). He massacred men, women and children in the name of Allah.

Islamic men strive to live their lives in the footsteps of Mohammad.

Just because Christian men killed in the name of God, does not mean that they were following the teachings of Christ.

Muslims, however, do follow their prophet's teachings when they kill non-believers in the name of Allah.

Originally posted by DeadSnow
reply to post by butcherguy

 

Well the fact that everyone is afraid of something that's been with us for the last couple of hundred years. I'm pretty sure Muslims pay taxes and besides the Quran forces them to pay Zak-at, i.e give to the needy.

Zakat average(tax to be payed by Muslims) ->2.5 percent
Jizya average(tax to be payed by Non Muslims) -> 10% minimum

Interested yet?

reply to post by DeadSnow

Well the fact that everyone is afraid of something that's been with us for the last couple of hundred years.

Maybe you should ask hundreds of headless Christians (in the recent past) in the Middle East and Asia if they should have been scared.
Oh, that's right, cutting their heads off kills them, and they don't talk any more.

Thank Allah for all of those loving followers of his.

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by boncho
Wow, I see a ton of play on words that will pop up in cartoons with that name: Jizya.

I know one thing. Ain't nobody jizzin me.

wonder if we would see a rap video with jizzin n snizzin.

I saw a video once that included such...

I don't think it was a rap video though.

reply to post by butcherguy


I am studying Islam and learning about Mohammad. I have a final on it next week.

Mohammad was born in Mecca 570 CE. He was orphaned at an early age and raised by his uncle. Mohammad grew up poor and knew the value of compassion and humility from an early age. He had a mostly unsuccessful career as a merchant and would be easily relatable to most men of his day. Mohammad’s habit of disappearing into caves for days at a time to meditate led to his incredible tale of being given the word of god by the angel Gabriel in 610 CE. After being given this message, which was to become the Islam holy book called the Quran, he was told to spread the message among the people. There were several features of Islam which led to its rapid expansion, even after the death of the religion’s first and only prophet.

Mohammad just happened to be a brilliant tactician and military leader, despite the fact he had no formal training. While it isn't accurate to say that Islam spread at the point of a sword, Mohammad was definitely not a prophet of peace. He personally led 20 battles resulting in 20 victories. His military experiences would make the religion much easier to spread amongst soldiers.

One reason Islam was able to spread so quickly was its simplicity. At its core are five straightforward pillars, which every Muslim must follow. First, the only thing required to convert to Islam is to acknowledge that there is only one god, Allah, and Mohammad is his prophet. Second, one must pray five times daily while facing Mecca. Muslims are also required to give charity to the poor. Fourth is a fast during the holy month of Ramadan. Finally, the only pillar which is optional, everyone who is financially and physically able must make at least one pilgrimage to the holy city of Mecca.

Islam was outwardly very similar to the other main religions of the day, Christianity and Judaism. This made it easy for people to convert to Islam, since they were already familiar with the Muslim concepts of one god, a Day of Judgment, and forgiveness of sins. Also, by converting, new Muslims would be exempted from the jizya, or a non-believer tax.

Islam professes a unity of the faithful called the umma. The umma is a family to which every Muslim belongs. A Muslim in need can always count on the umma for support in rough times.

Islam is a religion of the book. The Quran is every Muslim’s guide to the religion. While Mohammad was not divine, the Quran is since it is the direct word of Allah. Muslims have no sense of humor about this issue.

Islam is a universal faith and makes no discrimination against who can and cannot convert. It is a religion open to all regardless of nationality or gender.

When Mohammad created the first Muslim community, called an umma, in Medina, he set up an ethical code which emphasized equality, truth, honor, and justice.

A major part of the religion is a pilgrimage to Mecca called the hajj. It is closely associated with Mohammad; however its actual roots back two millennia before Mohammad’s birth to Abraham. The hajj is the largest pilgrimage in the world thus it is a powerful tool in conversion. While making the journey, pilgrims are apt to spread the faith along their route. While performing the rituals, everyone is in a state of ihram, which means patience and compassion. No anger is allowed while on the journey. Ihram also refers to the simple robes worn by pilgrims. This helps to bring everyone, rich and poor, to the same outward level. The hajj allows every Muslim to connect with Mohammad on a personal level, while the rituals performed give real world substance to the faith.

In Islam there is no separation of church and state. Sharia law is law which comes directly from the Quran. Its appeal lies in how it protects the family, including women and children. Sharia borrows heavily from Hammurabi’s Law Code and relies on the principle of fitting the punishment to the crime. This leads to very orderly societies, since, for example, a thief if caught would have his hand chopped off. The status of women is slightly elevated under Sharia law, as opposed to women living in a completely anarchistic society. They are given mild protection in cases of divorce and adultery, but are still placed directly under the authority of men. Sharia specifically outlaws female infanticide, which had been a common practice before since women were seen as a burden on the family by many cultures. Men were allowed to take up to four wives, but only if they could financially and physically support each one without neglecting the others. Unfortunately the Quran is very specific on the proper method for a man to beat his wife, and the protection given women in cases of adultery is laughable at best.

Sufi mystics played an important role in the early spread of Islam. They were very similar to sundiyasi mystics in India and their ascetic lifestyle was appreciated by Hindu converts to Islam. Because the Sufis disregard the technicalities of the religion and focus on the metaphysical aspects of the faith, they were often persecuted by mainstream Muslims. This led to a large exodus of Sufis into India and Pakistan, where millions of lower class sudras and untouchables were drawn to the Sufi’s idea of a minimalist approach to the faith. The idea of a personal relationship with Allah led to millions of converts who were dissatisfied with the ruling priestly class in the India subcontinent.

Islam is known for its close association to the merchant profession because its founder Mohammad was a merchant himself, although a mostly unsuccessful one. He taught that being a merchant was a noble profession and refers to them as couriers of the horizon. This association with merchants was especially useful in spreading Islam to Africa. When Mansa Musa, the powerful 14th century king of the Mali empire, noticed that most of the merchants passing through his region were Muslim, he sponsored Islam as the new state religion. Because of the high amount of trade passing through his empire, this caused a massive increase in conversions to Islam throughout Africa. When people converted they were given access to all the riches Islam had to offer, such as literacy in Arabic, access to libraries and universities, and vast medical knowledge.

One important aspect of Islam which was almost made the 6th pillar is the jihad. To struggle in defense of the faith is one of its highest callings. Everyone is expected to defend the faith. If killed in jihad you are put on fast track to paradise. Paradise was especially appealing to desert dwellers as it was supposed to be lush green garden with cool flowing water.

At the time of Islam’s founding there was a political vacuum in the Middle East. The Persian and Byzantine empires were both in decline and Islam had no other serious competition.

All of these contributed to Islam’s quick and successful growth from the musings of a poor merchant in Mecca into a faith practiced by over a billion people worldwide.

A tax on non believers …. Hmmmm..
I’ll gladly pay their tax. I will pay for it from my investments in lead and copper.
And I’ll gladly deliver that lead and copper to them at 3000FPS.

………..END OF LINE…………

reply to post by ZeroReady

Mohammad just happened to be a brilliant tactician and military leader, despite the fact he had no formal training. While it isn't accurate to say that Islam spread at the point of a sword, Mohammad was definitely not a prophet of peace. He personally led 20 battles resulting in 20 victories. His military experiences would make the religion much easier to spread amongst soldiers.

He may have just happened to be a brilliant tactician, but he conquered those other tribes by the sword and he forced them to submit. Those that were not massacred were given the 'option' of converting, or living under an 80% jizya. Being forced to give up 80% of your wealth convinced quite a few to convert.

I think 'spread by the sword' is an accurate term, being that is exactly what happened.

It has been narrated on the authority of Sayyidina 'Umar bin al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: When it was the day on which the Battle of Badr was fought, the Holy Prophet (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) cast a glance at the polytheists, and they were one thousand while his own Companions were three hundred and nineteen. The Holy Prophet (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) turned (his face) towards the Qibla. Then he stretched out his hands and began his supplication to his Lord: "O Allah! Accomplish for me what You have promised me. O Allah! Bring about what You have promised me. O Allah! If this small band of Muslims is destroyed, You will not be worshipped on this earth." He continued his supplication to his Lord, stretching out his hands, facing the Qibla, until his mantle slipped down from his shoulders. So Sayyidian Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him) came to him, picked up his mantle and put it on his shoulders. Then he embraced him from behind and said: O Prophet of Allah, this prayer of yours to your Lord will suffice you, and He will fulfil for you what He has promised you. So, Allah, the Glorious and Exalted, revealed (the Qur'anic verse): "When you appealed to your Lord for help, and He answered you (saying): I will help you with a thousand of the angels coming in succession." (8:9) So, Allah helped him with angels.

source: Iqra

reply to post by svmpua


Someones gonna get punched in the damn throat if they try collecting money from me because I don't believe you fairy tales.

If anything, we should tax you guys for making us put up with all your ludicous. The least you can do is be respectful like the Christians and keep that crap in your church!