Originally posted by ker2010
Zimmerman was carrying a 9 millimeter handgun. Martin was carrying a bag of Skittles and a can of iced tea. [ABC News]

Martin weighed 160 pounds. Zimmerman weighed well over 200 pounds. [Orlando Sentinel; WDBO]

Martin’s English teacher described him “as an A and B student who majored in cheerfulness.” [Orlando Sentinel]

Martin had no criminal record. [New York Times]

Zimmerman “was charged in July 2005 with resisting arrest with violence and battery on an officer. The charges appear to have been dropped.” HIs ex fiance also requested a restraining order claiming domestic violence [Huffington Post]

Zimmerman called the police 46 times since 2004. [Daily Beast]

According to neighbors, Zimmerman was “fixated on crime and focused on young, black males.” [Miami Herald]

Zimmerman “had been the subject of complaints by neighbors in his gated community for aggressive tactics” [Huffington Post]

Zimmerman was not a member of a registered Neighborhood Watch group. Zimmerman also violated basic Neighborhood Watch guidelines by carrying a weapon. [ABC News]
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So trey has a little residual marijuana and no juvenile record. Zimmerman has the violent accusations of abuse against a female and the assault on a cop, yet Trey is the violent thug?

But we are to believe Mr Zimmerman would in no way attack first?

IN what universe does this make sense?..

It wouldn't without a ulterior motive.

edit on 8-12-2012 by ker2010 because: (no reason given)

It'z crazy how all the background information on both Martin and Zimmerman still has very little effect on people's opinions.. I would assume both parties will be examined thoroughly in court to paint a better picture of a situation that hardly any of us were witnesses to..!

Originally posted by Grimpachi

I kept reading statements on here and MSM saying he disobeyed the police by following Martin which has been shown to be false. The entire argument that it was Georges fault hinged on them saying George continued following Martin when the facts show as soon as they said they didn’t need him doing that he said OK and started returning to his vehicle.

It sure took him a long route to get back to his truck! How fast was he that he was so far from his truck after just exiting it?

Let me ask those people do they wish for the laws to change so that race becomes a factor in determining guilt in crimes? If so do you think that would be a good idea to set as a precedent in our country and why stop there perhaps we should take religious beliefs into account or someone’s height or weight? How about hair styles or the cloths they ware? It is a pretty stupid idea if you ask me but that seems to be what some of these racists are asking for.

Look at the prison population and tell me race isn't already being used to determine guilt in crimes! Though most of it can be hung on economics...

If anyone wants to argue that Zimmerman is guilty all I ask is that you use facts and explain what does not match up in your mind from the reenactment statements or timeline. It isn’t a hefty request. I have notices that many people in here that are arguing against Zimmerman have not even taken the time to review the evidence and are mostly relying on what they heard from MSM. Deny ignorance use the computer you are posting from and look up everything that has been released to the public. Earlier in this thread I posted a link which has all of it on one site so there is no excuse to be arguing from ignorance.

All one must do is observe the diagram I posted to see that George's claim doesn't add up. If he returned to his truck...how did he get in a conflict where the body was found? Now you may/will say 'Maybe he wanted to go the long route". Well that is being intellectually dishonest, that is the same as passively following after Trayvon.

edit on 10-12-2012 by DZAG Wright because: (no reason given)

i take george zimmermans side. travon martin got killed out of ignorance. i dont even like hearing the name travon martin. this was all to start a race war. for martial law and it was almost sucessfull.

Originally posted by blownaway
i take george zimmermans side. travon martin got killed out of ignorance. i dont even like hearing the name travon martin. this was all to start a race war. for martial law and it was almost sucessfull.

So George Zimmerman didn't show any ignorance? How you answer this will give us a idea of where you are coming from...

I love how Zimmerman's supporters say his past is not relevant yet Martin's is...

Originally posted by DJW001


Are you saying that despite his confession, Zimmerman did not kill Martin? I honestly don't understand your point.

I think his point is that he killed him, but he is not "guilty" if it was self-defense. Which makes sense, IMHO.

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
I didn't mention a race...

If it's proved that Trayvon was a criminal and not provoked into defending himself, I will have no problem with GZ.

Again, I have no problem with "crooks" getting boomed...however I don't enjoy gun-happy, cowards playing hero and confronting someone not doing anything, getting their butts kicked, then screaming they were attacked.

Race has been mentioned many times here, and I believe you supported some of the comments. If not, apologies. If so, admit it.

Confronting someone does not give them justification for attacking, first off. Plus, there is no evidence to indicate that Zimmerman confronted Martin, and plenty to indicate that Martin confronted Zimmerman (including, I must add, the testimony of Martin's girlfriend).

Originally posted by AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS
Come on now. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Did you do this??? These media outlets determine how you make conclusions. There are young kids that shoot guns in school. Does that mean we are aloud to say, "Young kids do this all the time". Im sorry its wrong on all levels.

This is a free country, and we are allowed to say pretty much what we want. Plus, when kids are committing crimes, and violent, it's not unreasonable to state that they do these things. No one said "all kids".

Originally posted by AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS
In some cultures, it seems people take more pride in being violent??? What do you mean, the culture the United States constructed on the backs of slavery, murder, treason, theft,and many other atrocities that we celebrate in history class?? Stop watching the news and stay off of Youtube it is very dangerous. I come from one of these communities and its not as easy as you think. People have dreams and goals that they are unable to fulfill due to the lack of resources. I also had the privilege to attend a school a couple cities over when we moved and it was like night and day. There is no reason why any schools should be different from each other. The nice elementary school was 2 stories and very nice. My school prior to moving was ran down, the main building in the school was closed because it was so old. It appeared the school or city has no funding or hope. These are the things you will not find on Youtube or the news. Outsiders looking in tend to have all of the answers.

Watching the news and YT videos is dangerous? Not to a thinking person. I have known a LOT of people that struggle, but most of them don't think that gives them an excuse to join a gang, beat people up, steal, attack, etc. Heck, my own MOTHER grew up literally dirt poor, like no one in any ghetto can comprehend. I am talking beans and cornbread every night poor, wood stove for cooking and heat poor, no new clothing ever poor, and more. Her family didn't attack anyone. They worked to make things better. Plus, I have already addressed the school issue.

Originally posted by AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS
History lessons are no excuse. But when you don't understand that you have a connection to your community, neighborhood, and the human family I understand how that can turn someone into to something that is not native to their being. You still fail to address the issue. Its not about how cheap black market guns are, its how do they end up in these inner communities. Lets take drugs for example, when coc aine boomed, it came through harbors and ports, the majority of so called black did not own boats and if they did they would not risk it all to bring in something of this nature. Look at ecstasy, it was created in a lab and it made its way into the party culture and inner cities. Look at '___' it was created by the CIA for heavens sake, and look where it ended up. Cause and Effect. Decades ago there were not many so called "black" chemist" and if there were I can't imagine one creating a substance that would inevitably destroy the community for which he came. It would be like the upper part of a tree destroying its own roots.

The guns are there because of the criminal activity. If the criminals living in those neighborhoods didn't buy guns, there would be no market there for said guns. Blame the people buying and using them illegally. They, and ONLY they, are responsible for their own actions. As for drugs, are you honestly trying to claim that no blacks are involved in making and selling them? No, they are not alone in that, but there are some that do it. No drug dealer, regardless of color, cares about their community, either; they care about themselves and the money they make.

Originally posted by AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS
Its not about rights and its not about defending your life. I wish wish to enter the grey area. Why did noone arrive?? From what I was told this wasn't a first for zimmerman and why did he feel he was superman or a figure of authority. Neighborhood (keyword) WATCH. If he wants to play the role of security then he needs to follow protocol. Observe and Report. This was totally uncalled for. No one will ever address this side of the issue. What provoked Martin to strike him?? We mysteriously get from suspicion to striking. If we are going to assess and

Yes, this is exactly about the right to defend your life. There is no grey area there. The police DID arrive, simply a little late. Zimmerman didn't feel he was anything but a concerned person, watching and reporting a suspicious person, which is what he DID. What was uncalled for was someone attacking him and trying to kill him for that. What provoked Martin? Fear of jail, maybe? Temper? had HE been afraid, he'd have called 911 himself, but he didn't.

Originally posted by AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS
Lady green and Benreclused.

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analyze this then lets do it. What happened??? What would cause a person that is alone to strike someone. This is the missing key. What did zimmerman do???? I will ask again because people are overlooking this fact. We go from observation to attack??? Did he get attacked in his car no!! So this means he got out of his car right?? What happened after that?? Cause and effect. Zimmerman does not have the right to apprehend people based on this mysterious suspicion, he notified the police and that should be the extent of his boundaries. How do we know Martin wasn't defending himself. Maybe he was being followed while he was minding his own business and he felt threatened, especially after Zimmerman got out of his car. Lets think about this..
*snip*

I hope I didn't offend anyone. I just hope when we have these debates we can remain civil and exchange ideas in a mature way. You cannot receive anything with a closed hand, and you can not fill a glass that is full. When you come into these discussions ladies and gentlemen always leave a little room so your opinion can grow with the new facts that are handed to you.

Please think...Death is never the answer we have too many outlets and faculties for us not to produce a rational action. This behavior is animal-like.
*snip*

edit on 7-12-2012 by AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS because: correction

People attack others all the time for no good reason, and in this case, if Martin was, in fact, part of the burglaries in the area, then he had a reason; to keep out of jail at any cost. Indications are good that this was the case. Not proven 100%, but good. From the call Zimmerman made, we know he reported on location, tried to observe as the dispatcher seemed to indicate, and stopped when Martin was out of sight, and the dispatcher told him he didn't need to follow. That's recorded, and very clear. There is no evidence at all that Zimmerman ever tried to apprehend Martin. Martin's girlfriend, in fact, stated that Martin spoke to Zimmerman first. She may not realize it, but that statement supports Zimmerman's claim, because he also stated (before her statement was known) that martin spoke to him, then attacked. Had Martin felt threatened, why did he not call the police? He had a cell phone. Why, if his girlfriend really believed he was in danger, did she not call the police? Neither did, and that is why I believe he instigated the attack. i think he told his GF he was going to take care of the guy following him, and she didn't report an issue, because she believed he would win. I have tried to consider all sides of this. I have no agenda but that the truth be seen.

Well, I for one am not offended by your posts. I am frustrated that what should be a simple case of self defense has been so blown out of proportion, but civil discussion is one way we can all see the facts.

I base my conclusions on the evidence. 911 calls, witness statements, assessments of both individuals, as well as can be done based on what we see and hear, photographs, and the initial response of the police that night. I don't care about skin color. Read about a case just today where a guy beat the crap out of a burglar. Guy happened to be black, and the burglar was either white or Hispanic (hard to tell with the black eyes). In that case, the boxer was in the right, from what we know so far. In this case, I think Zimmerman was in the right. Evidence. Logic.