Bloody new photo of Trayvon Martin's killer

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

 

There never would have been an issue if Zimmerman didn't follow him.
This all never would have happened if the guy never followed him, and never got out of his car. What did he do to warrant being followed. Was he too black in the wrong neighborhood? Are hoodies now a crime? Maybe it was that contraband of skittles and iced tea that he was carrying?

It doesn't matter what color he was. He was in a gated community with his face covered and wasn't one of the people that lived there. Zimmerman was the head of the neighborhood watch so he did his job and followed him. I don't care if he was green with yellow poka dots, he looked suspicious and got followed for it.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
I'm not defending Zimmerman's actions in approaching Martin but once he became in danger of being killed he had the same right as anyone to preserve his own life.

And Trayvon had every right of trying to preserve his life, he had every right to go about his business in that neighbourhood that night. In the end Zimmerman was the one with the gun, he was much older than Trayvon so he should have known better. He made the choice to pursue this matter, and now he has blood in his hands and his face exposed to so many people. Had he stayed put in his truck, his life would not have changed to what it is today.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
I'm not defending Zimmerman's actions in approaching Martin but once he became in danger of being killed he had the same right as anyone to preserve his own life.

And Trayvon had every right of trying to preserve his life, he had every right to go about his business in that neighbourhood that night. In the end Zimmerman was the one with the gun, he was much older than Trayvon so he should have known better. He made the choice to pursue this matter, and now he has blood in his hands and his face exposed to so many people. Had he stayed put in his truck, his life would not have changed to what it is today.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

By your logic, if we all just sit in our houses and never leave our couches and bags of potato chips and our talking picture boxes no one will be in harm's way.

As I see it, Zimmerman may have prevented another from being assaulted or killed.

Just as a preemptive measure, if you or anyone else wants to argue that Zimmerman should have called the police and waited idly by, the average response time is typically greater than 10 minutes in most metropolitan areas. The average time it takes to respond to a life endangering threat (draw weapon and fire) is 1.78 seconds. It's a no-brainer as to why I carry my own protection.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

Thanks for posting the photo.

Without a doubt, it shows that, regardless of age or weight, Trayvon was capable of extreme violence. He certainly wasn't the "innocent little boy" that so many here seem to be claiming he was. That was most obviously done BEFORE George's weapon was drawn, and fired.

See ya,
Milt

Some further conflicting claims from Zimmerman:

But today’s bloody photo doesn’t solve the mystery of Trayvon’s hands. There were “No DNA results foreign to Trayvon Benjamin Martin” found on them. Also, in a written statement, during a jailhouse interview and a reenactment the next day, Zimmerman said that he pulled the dead teen’s arms away from his body after killing him. Yet, the police officer who arrived on the scene noted in his report, “The black male had his hands underneath his body.” Until that question — among many — is answered, Zimmerman’s dubious claim of self-defense will remain suspect.

www.washingtonpost.com...

So there was a confrontation, but no Zimmerman DNA conclusively reported on Trayvon? There were also reports of no conclusive Trayvon DNA on Zimmermans gun:

Today, prosecutors released the results of the tests on the slide, trigger, grip and holster of the automatic pistol that Zimmerman used to kill the 17-year-old unarmed teenager in February in a gated community in Sanford, Fla.

To be precise, the tests excluded Trayvon as a possible contributor for DNA found on the gun's grip

content.usatoday.com...

Yet there was a struggle and Trayvon was shot while in a physical struggle between the two, as claimed by Zimmerman.

This case is still being investigated, possibly some things may be corrected or more information found, but no evidence as of yet to demonstrate that Zimmerman was the victim of the night, only Zimmerman's claim that he was.

Originally posted by 59demon
By your logic, if we all just sit in our houses and never leave our couches

But Zimmerman wasn't sitting in his "couch" in his "house" now was he? He was sitting in his truck which he had driven to track Trayvon, and he had called the police, he was in contact with the dispatcher who clearly stated the police were on their way and advised him to stay put.

We have the police to deal with such matters for a reason.

As I see it, Zimmerman may have prevented another from being assaulted or killed.

But the fact of the matter remains, no evidence exists that Trayvon was doing any wrong that night. Yes, maybe Trayvon would have gone on to rob a bank for all we know, we can pull out all sorts of fantastical possibilities, but the fact remains that Trayvon was not doing anything illegal that night.

Why did Martin run to start with? Zimmerman wasn't hiding or sneaking up on him and he didn't have a gang with him. Why didn't he just stop when he was called and answer questions instead of running?
If he was some innocent kid, he wouldn't have been slinking around the houses and running from his elders when they asked him questions. That's what crooks do. They get caught in the act and they run. He was probably stalking out which house he was going to break into and knew he was busted or he wouldnt' run to start with and he wouldn't try to beat a guy down that was just asking him questions. If Zimmerman didn't shoot him, he would have killed Zimmerman then robbed the houses.

Fact: We have no photos of Trayvon Martin's injuries. We do know he is dead.

Fact: George Zimmerman is a liar.

Just part of his bullsh#t, and compare in photos, no blood spatter:

blog.eyesforlies.com...

In his reenactment Zimmerman is inconsistent again. He tells us he didn't think he shot Trayvon.

Really?

Yet you just read in the written statement he has no doubt and knows exactly where he shot him!! I think anyone can see the truth here, when you compare statements.

From the reenactment:


...I felt like his arm going down to my side and I grabbed it, and I just grabbed my firearm and shot it one time...I shot him and I didn’t think I hit him because he sat up and said, “okay, you got me. You got it, you got it"…something like that. So I thought he was just saying, “I know you have a gun now, I heard it…I’m giving up.”

In the written statement, the timing of the onlooker is different, too.

Honest people don't have all these inconsistencies, folks.

After he shot Trayvon in the torso, Zimmerman says, "At this point, I slid out from underneath him and got on top of the suspect holding his hands away from the body. An onlooker appeared and asked me if I was okay. I said "no." He said "I'm calling 911. I said I don't need you to call..."

Yet in his reenactment, we hear Zimmerman say the following. Notice the timing is different:


"... and he said “Shut the # up.” And um…..then I tried squirming again because all I could think about was…when he was hitting my head against…it felt like it was going to explode. I thought I was going to lose consciousness so I tried to squirm, so I could get…he only had a small portion of my head on the concrete so I tried to squirm off the concrete, and when I did that, somebody here opened the door and I said, “Help me, help me” and they said, “I’ll call 911.” And I said, “No help me”. I need help."

His video statements are phony and obviously 'prepared'.

Zimmerman has previous history of abuse and anger issues.

Zimmerman and his wife lied about their finances and hid money.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


My 17 year old is a child. 21 is the legal adult age. That boy better be in at 8PM when I say. He better have his homework done and his chores finished. He a school kid. Most dont even work yet.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Where is 17 the legal adult age ? Its 18 here in the US. Though 21 to drink.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by 59demon
By your logic, if we all just sit in our houses and never leave our couches

But Zimmerman wasn't sitting in his "couch" in his "house" now was he? He was sitting in his truck which he had driven to track Trayvon, and he had called the police, he was in contact with the dispatcher who clearly stated the police were on their way and advised him to stay put.

We have the police to deal with such matters for a reason.

As I see it, Zimmerman may have prevented another from being assaulted or killed.

But the fact of the matter remains, no evidence exists that Trayvon was doing any wrong that night. Yes, maybe Trayvon would have gone on to rob a bank for all we know, we can pull out all sorts of fantastical possibilities, but the fact remains that Trayvon was not doing anything illegal that night.

Exactly. George Zimmerman was already being a proactive contributor to his neighborhood's apparent problem by volunteering his time to the neighborhood watch. He was not idly sitting by on his couch, waiting to be victimized.

The police are not the panacea of crime, sir. The police are a reactionary measure to a crime that has already been committed. Zimmerman was attempting to prevent a crime by someone that I or any number of people would have suspected of misdoings based solely on his reaction to an adult (read: authority) of running away. Certainly, had mister Martin been doing nothing wrong, he would not flee. Zimmerman didn't draw his weapon until his life was allegedly put at risk. Martin was unaware that he had a firearm.

reply to post by Domo1


The question was whether 17 was a legal adult. The question was not what a 17 year old can do.

Originally posted by karen61560
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

 

Where is 17 the legal adult age ? Its 18 here in the US. Though 21 to drink.

This is the problem with "technicalities." I was most definitely an adult at age 17. I lived 1,200 miles from home and provided transportation, housing, and other amenities for myself completely at this age. There is no magical barrier that gets cast aside upon completing 6574.36 days upon this world.

Originally posted by karen61560
reply to post by Domo1

 

The question was whether 17 was a legal adult. The question was not what a 17 year old can do.

If Zimmerman didn't carry a gun and Martin killed him instead, he would have been tried as an adult. If Zimmerman didn't carry the gun, he'd be the one dead right now because a criminal was stalking his neigborhood. If Zimmerman was the one killed would the same people be upset or would it have been ok?

reply to post by 59demon

So, you will go to the counselor BEFORE or AFTER you are left hemorrhaging on the ground?

well for one, i wouldn't be left hemorrhaging on the ground.

number two i would have dissolved the situation before it got to that point. ive always fancied myself a word smith of sorts, and the only times ive ever been in physical confrontations is because i chose not to use my diplomatic debonair. every other time my words saved pain and injury.

but since we live in a word were some adults run on pure emotion(kind of like newborn babys) violence will happen. and if one comes into unwanted violence or violent situation, then you also have the possibility of walking away, running away, and then think on the situation after your safe and decide what is the best course of action. instead of being one of those people that are controlled by there emotions. if i was this zimmrman and im scared of a kid, i run to the nearest house and knock on the door and ask for help, while i have my cell phone out dialing 911 and yell to the kid im dialing 911, once zimmerman was on private property and calling the fuzz im sure the kid would have thought twice about pursuing him farther. but since zimmerman is one of those adult babys, he made all the wrong choices.

i saw the injury pics of zimmerman, far from hemorging. i used come out looking worse than that after a long night of drinking in the woods

I don't believe you, or any other sane person, would overcome his or her instincts of self-preservation because you felt guilty or ashamed that the perpetrator was 17 years of age. Zimmerman most likely didn't even know how old his alleged assailant was... nor did it matter.

self preservation doesn't always mean destruction of life, its the people that think like that make this world a bad place sometimes.

very few would ignore there instincts of self preservation, but for those that would follow there instincts why does the instincts only kick in when its to late, why didn't he start trying to self preserve with his words before the situation escalated. why did Zimmerman only act upon his natural instincts when he had a gun in his hand, i guess there selective instincts to use when you please. he could have acted on his instincts of self preservation to not go walking around by yourself in the dark. see what im saying? he had way more chances of self preservation before he picked up the gun, but didn't act on self preservation until his judgement was clouded by fear, pride, and vengeance. In short he is a coward.

and i bet he didnt know how old he was, how could he? although im sure he could tell he was young as all 17 year look fairly young even if they matured faster than others. either way though, zimmerman was an adult and could have stopped the situation before it happened instead of basing his actions on emotion. now the kids dead and Zimmerman is labeled as a coward for life.

do you really think that kid would have beat Zimmerman to death? i know kids are a little off these days but i believe Zimmerman would have been beat and it would have hurt, and he would have healed and gone about his life. were im from a beating is no cause for death, a beating deserves a beating at the most. but since zimmerman got beat by a sprat, he should have walked away with dishonor and tried to better himself so it wouldn't happen a again. Now he is dishonored and a coward. and he may be "alive" but know he has to go through life knowing he killed a kid, because he was to afraid to do the right thing, and that will always be with him

reply to post by eNumbra


18 you can smoke.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


I know there is no reason for you to believe me but I am familiar with the place where this all happened. I live 15 minutes from the 7 eleven where Martin bought his skittles I know the area. When this happened I was out of the country the second day after I got back I was listening to talk radio driving from Tampa back to Orlando when they were talking about the case with a former prosecutor and a former judge going over the transcripts and Zimmerman’s statements which had just been released so when I got back into Orlando I went up to where this happened and I even drove through the neighborhood. And when I got to where Martin was shot it was pretty clearly marked at the time because of the flowers there so I stopped talked to the people that were there for the same reason I was so I think I have a fairly good idea of how everything went down. The only way that Martin didn’t come back to Zimmerman is if like I said they ran in circles. After I watched the reenactment I have no doubts that things happened like Zimmerman said. I think you can even Google earth the location from the reports and you should be able to see for yourself.

I have my doubts whether or not Martin was actually just strolling home or if he was casing the neighborhood but that is just conjecture. One thing I can’t stand is when people try to make this a race issue unless there is a lot of Hispanic on black race crimes I am not aware of. You can believe what you want but I think that Zimmerman told the truth while giving his statements and remember he was grilled for 5 hours over and over and the police have said that his story didn’t change. I don’t know if you have ever seen someone after they have been shot like Martin was reported to have been but as I said I think that unless blood evidence shows something different from what Zimmerman stated there shouldn’t be any reason to doubt his statement and so far his attorney has pushed to have everything in the open to the public. That is not what guilty people do.


With all that unless you have actually been there I think I have a much better idea of what happened than you do. Maybe you have looked at it on the map. I haven’t but I have been there. Zimmerman’s statements and the dispatch recordings line up to each other so his information seems a lot more credible than internet conjecture.

reply to post by Trustfund


True serial killers are mostly white adult males. However there are always exceptions. The Beltway Killer for one.

reply to post by Trustfund


I think the quick exchange of replies, concerning the variation of testosterone levels in Caucasian/Hispanic/Negro races, respectively, caught the attention of several members here.

After doing a quick Bing search, I found studies and articles that directly address this topic

The information I found is partially included below (in no particular sort, other than the order in which the search results were returned from the Bing engine)...

There are studies that tend to favor both sides of the theory, like this one:

SOURCE

Serum Estrogen, But Not Testosterone, Levels Differ between Black and White Men in a Nationally Representative Sample of Americans...

Context : Higher testosterone in black compared with white men has been postulated to explain their higher prostate cancer incidence. Previous studies comparing hormone levels by race might have been limited by size, restricted age variation, or lack of representation of the general population...

Participants, Design, and Setting : A total of 1413 men aged 20+ yr and who attended the morning examination session of the Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES III) in 1988–1991 were included in this cross-sectional study.

Measurement : Serum hormone concentrations were measured by electrochemiluminescence immunoassays...

Results : After applying sampling weights and adjusting for age, percent body fat, alcohol, smoking, and activity, testosterone concentrations were....

Note: the following Table of Contents highlights other points addressed in the article

1. ABSTRACT

2. SUBJECTS and METHODS

a. Study Population

b. Hormone Measurements

c. Stastical Analysis

3. RESULTS

a. Differences by race/ethnicity adjusting for age

b. Difference in race/ethnicity within age groups


4. DISCUSSION

5. FOOTNOTES

A couple comments on the article:

from a student that studies the human genome

Scientists don't "know" any such thing! This is wishful thinking - something the Hudson Institute specializes in....

_

...this is a bu%*^&it site that many of you have used as an argument... ...I asked my biochemist uncle...

...this site has nothing to back up it's data and it shows no records..

_

Here is a discussion @ Ask.com , claiming that black males do have higher testosterone levels than various other races:

(don't shoot me for this link, it has lots of ignorance, but it shows what many people believe)

Are blacks naturally muscular?...

Answer:

...a science book... will say all major ethnic groups -Black, White, Asian- differ in body structure....

... Black people have bones 2% denser than White people, which means their bodies are more adept for physical activities, which is why they tend to be naturally muscle-bound. This doesn't mean Black people are the best at sports or strongest. It's just scientific fact. The more bone density you have, the easier it is to build muscle. The less bone density you have, the more you have to work to build muscle.

I'm not sure if bone development and density play a role in determining testosterone levels, maybe:

This Graph shows the average bone density for African American (Black) men/women and for Caucasian (White) men/women. The bone density is quite a bit higher in the African Americans....

...differences in bone density are seen even in kids

THIS ARTICLE is about elevated testosterone levels among the races.

It has info I could find nowhere else & may explain the belief that black males have the highest testosterone levels:

Development of agriculture in Blacks may have led to high testosterone levels. The highest testosterone levels in the world are found in primitive agriculturalists...

Blacks have much higher testosterone levels than Whites...

...High testosterone levels are linked to violent behavior. High testosterone results in lower IQ, but better fighting & mating skills. Avg. black male IQ : 83...

Black boys’ exposure to high testosterone begins in the womb...

higher Black testosterone levels may be a causative agent in Black crime, aggression and lowered IQ... it could be treated medicinally

in our insane PC anti-racist society, such interventions are banned now and forevermore as “racist.”

edit on 4-12-2012 by esteay812 because: tyops

Originally posted by DocHolidaze
reply to post by 59demon

 

So, you will go to the counselor BEFORE or AFTER you are left hemorrhaging on the ground?

well for one, i wouldn't be left hemorrhaging on the ground.

number two i would have dissolved the situation before it got to that point. ive always fancied myself a word smith of sorts, and the only times ive ever been in physical confrontations is because i chose not to use my diplomatic debonair. every other time my words saved pain and injury.

but since we live in a word were some adults run on pure emotion(kind of like newborn babys) violence will happen. and if one comes into unwanted violence or violent situation, then you also have the possibility of walking away, running away, and then think on the situation after your safe and decide what is the best course of action. instead of being one of those people that are controlled by there emotions. if i was this zimmrman and im scared of a kid, i run to the nearest house and knock on the door and ask for help, while i have my cell phone out dialing 911 and yell to the kid im dialing 911, once zimmerman was on private property and calling the fuzz im sure the kid would have thought twice about pursuing him farther. but since zimmerman is one of those adult babys, he made all the wrong choices.

i saw the injury pics of zimmerman, far from hemorging. i used come out looking worse than that after a long night of drinking in the woods

I don't believe you, or any other sane person, would overcome his or her instincts of self-preservation because you felt guilty or ashamed that the perpetrator was 17 years of age. Zimmerman most likely didn't even know how old his alleged assailant was... nor did it matter.

self preservation doesn't always mean destruction of life, its the people that think like that make this world a bad place sometimes.

very few would ignore there instincts of self preservation, but for those that would follow there instincts why does the instincts only kick in when its to late, why didn't he start trying to self preserve with his words before the situation escalated. why did Zimmerman only act upon his natural instincts when he had a gun in his hand, i guess there selective instincts to use when you please. he could have acted on his instincts of self preservation to not go walking around by yourself in the dark. see what im saying? he had way more chances of self preservation before he picked up the gun, but didn't act on self preservation until his judgement was clouded by fear, pride, and vengeance. In short he is a coward.

and i bet he didnt know how old he was, how could he? although im sure he could tell he was young as all 17 year look fairly young even if they matured faster than others. either way though, zimmerman was an adult and could have stopped the situation before it happened instead of basing his actions on emotion. now the kids dead and Zimmerman is labeled as a coward for life.

do you really think that kid would have beat Zimmerman to death? i know kids are a little off these days but i believe Zimmerman would have been beat and it would have hurt, and he would have healed and gone about his life. were im from a beating is no cause for death, a beating deserves a beating at the most. but since zimmerman got beat by a sprat, he should have walked away with dishonor and tried to better himself so it wouldn't happen a again. Now he is dishonored and a coward. and he may be "alive" but know he has to go through life knowing he killed a kid, because he was to afraid to do the right thing, and that will always be with him

You're assuming that Martin or anyone else would stop short of blunt force trauma in this type of situation. You can try to talk your way out all you want but when someone is already attacking you, one must do anything to stop the assailant.

Perhaps I'm a terrible person... a plague upon this earth, simply because I would take the life of another to protect my own (and rightly so), but you know what? I'm the one who comes out of the situation alive. I go on to live another day and read articles about others being murdered ruthlessly and defended by nothing more than their failing words.