Europe Will Cancel Weapon Ban on China Next Year

Originally posted by Hawkssss
my english of course is not naturally good because hey I am a chinese; english is not my native language.

I guess I am a tad aggressive to you; hey don't sweat it. it only makes me look bad.

Ciao mate

- No offense taken. All the best to you and yours.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by Teh_Gerbil

Either way, and up-to-date chinese military is going to reinforce their position as the most powerfull armed forces around. Scary.

a bit overconfident.
i mean come on they have no navy, hell the RN could beat them at a ship for ship battle.not to say the RN is bad but just is rather small.
also thier longest range missiles reach what mabye to turkey?
i doubt britain or USA will sell them anything.

technically china has a navy

what would they call their ships and submarines that gaurd its coast

what you use to guard your coasts are called brown-water navy. Most of navy can be categorized as so. but with the 4 new 052 DDGs and 4 Sovy DDGs we are buying from Russia, PLAN is already bluewater. The 052s provide anti-air defense system with our phased radar system while the Sovys provide antiship capabilities.

Of course, to become a true blue-water navy, we still lack operational carriers.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey


- With the USA currently out spending the next 35 countries in the military spending league table combined I don't think China has anything like sufficient wealth to catch up properly never mind become "the most powerful armed forces around".

Originally posted by Russian
China's economy is growing by 9.1% a year. That is very impresive indeed. With the cancelation of the weapons ban China will buy sometech for aircrafts and other stuff also they will try get as much space tech as possible. China will not buy actuale military units for Europe.

Out,
Russian

- Extraordinary rates of growth like that are less difficult when one is starting from a low base. They're developing alright but the total wealth divided among her people gives a much less impressive figure.



[edit on 28-10-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

China will surpass the US economy in about 15 years if they continue to grow at the rate they are. Their military budget will at least keep pace with this growth.

So GDp per capita is irrelevant when comparing in the size of the economy. The Chinese will simple have a larger economy than the US in 15 or so years. Look at what the Chinese can do with a $US60 billion military budget right now, imagine when they are spending 3 or 4 times as much. Not to mention a much more established technological base.

We've got the u 31 at least germany does this is most High tech Submarine on earth. Maby they will buy that.

""The German Navy's U 31 submarine has been unveiled. Its revolutionary power source is an advanced fuel cell running on oxygen and hydrogen. That makes it virtually undectable to enemies and allows it stay under the surface for weeks.""



[edit on 29-10-2004 by HEroX]

you mean the U212. It is really good, but we can pretty much produce our own SSK subs such as the Song and Yuan class and we are buying 8 more Kilos (total 12) from Russia. That will be plenty for us. But, maybe some technology transfer will be great. The germans are the best sub builders.

In respons to what Cyberdude78 said, when the Chinese start buying weapos they will most likely have a system like the Soviets did with the high grade well trained forces recieving the new good stuff. These were refered to as A group units and the B group gets the next level and then finally C group units get the crap that they cant give away to any body else but can still kill someone.

I seriously doubt Europe will sell China the super-high tech versions of their stuff, that would be plain stupid. Like how M1 Abrams tanks that are sold to foreign countries, and F-16s and F-15s, and AH-64 Apaches sold to foreign countries, all of those have downgraded technology.

Those European countries may be hungry for money and also to spite the U.S., but they aren't stupid enough to sell China their most advanced stuff.

If it was up to me though, the ban would remain in place.

As for rifles, I think China will stick with the old AK-47; that is a tried and ture rifle, one of the greatest ever made. I don't think they will buy the Eurofighter as it is too new, and the J-10, which is like an upgraded F-16 essentially, can perform better than the current F-16 itself, and the current F-16 is still one of the best fighters out there. What China needs are decent avionics packages for their planes.

German subs and tanks are amongst the best, I don't think Germany would give China its most advanced sub features though; more likely it would create an "export" version of the sub for sale to China, if China wanted to buy it. Same with their tanks.

Oh, and I don't think China will up its spending to the current amount the U.S. spends on the military, as China doesn't have bases all over the planet at the moment like the U.S. has. And if China starts wanting that, it will probably spark another cold war, because for one, you can be sure the news media will report it all and everyone will freak, and also, the arms companies will love it and say China is a severe threat, etc....and whala.

If you read about when the Soviets launched Sputnik in the late 1950s, it actually was not considered at all a big deal to NASA or the Air Force (I think NASA was called something else at the time though); however, to the uneducated United States gov't and to the general public, it was a nightmare, and so the space program and all that got huge boosts.

Do you think China would buy any amounts of European missiles of any kind??

I heard the chinese interest is primarely in advanced radar tracking and guidance technology....

They would however buy a lot of other stuff they don't REALLY need as long as some highly sensitive equipment comes with the package. They could reverse engineer that afterwards....

Politics may keep the front door closed, but money often the backdoor...


[edit on 17-12-2004 by Countermeasures]

I think China will stick with the old AK-47

They have updated the Type 56 (AK-47 rip-off) to the type 81 upgraded version, not to mention the type 96. They're upgrading their rifles right now, ak-47 is becoming a bit obsolete in its capabilities.

It is predicted if China's economy continues to grow (all signs are it will continue like this or speed up) That by 2020 they will be rivaling the US for power, if not equal or surpased it.

Look guys, it's someone else's turn to be the superpower now. You've had it long enough, now get over the fact your not anymore. Us Brit's lost our superpower status, you're loosing yours. These things happen, ok?

Now that is just plain ignorance. China's navy has no experience operating a carrier ship at sea, their army has had no combat experience since the 1950s, and their air force is doing 3rd grader work compared to the skill lvel of U.S. pilots. Hell, their own pilot couldn't even fly his plane correctly enough to avoid the U.S. plane's engine prop, and it went into the sea.

And I've told you before, Britain lost its power because it lost its colonies. Without the colonies, it was just itself again. The United States is different. You also seem to forget China is bordered by lots of potential adversaries. India, Russia, Korea, etc....the U.S. is bordered by Mexico and Canada, who are not of any threat to us. There is a reason the U.S. was able to take on Japan and Germany both in WWII. Resources. Japan and Britain are small island countries that lack those. Thus when they lost their empires, they fell. The U.S. has no empire, landmass-wise, to begin with.

And we've "had our chance?" Keeping the world free of the majority of big threats isn't a chance, it is duty one must do to keep their own country from being threatened.

People will take you more seriously if you didn't have so many glaring errors.

The 1950's weren't the last time China had been at war...

Actually, after I wrote that, I realized it wasn't true, but I just figured I'd clarify that when I responded again (about China's army and combat). As for their navy and air force, that is the truth of the matter. And as for glaring errors, name them.

China combat readiness is more dependant on training than past wars. When the British went to Iraqi in 1990, they had not participated in mechanized warfare since the Korean war some 40 years before and not serious mechanized warfare since WW-II. However I don't think there was any problem with there troop training or doctrine.

This is not the cold war, the Chinese have their own version of NTC where they practice and improve their craft...The war against Vietnam highlighted some of the problems that have been worked on since then. If you think chinese army will be a push over think again.

Chinas economy is indeed growing at a hugh rate, but as its economy approached that of the americans it most likely will slow down rate growth and thus any take over will not occur until around 2050? China doesn't need a whole lot of weapons from the west but some technology would be good. Radar and guidance technology would be good and naval technology. They need several helicopter carriers , larger troop ships and eventually some CVs. France/Euros can help here, but getting some german /swedish AIP technology into their subs would be priceless.

All in all lifting the ban is a good move and about time.

[edit on 18-12-2004 by psteel]

Originally posted by psteel
China combat readiness is more dependant on training than past wars. When the British went to Iraqi in 1990, they had not participated in mechanized warfare since the Korean war some 40 years before and not serious mechanized warfare since WW-II. However I don't think there was any problem with there troop training or doctrine.

This is not the cold war, the Chinese have their own version of NTC where they practice and improve their craft...The war against Vietnam highlighted some of the problems that have been worked on since then. If you think chinese army will be a push over think again.

Chinas economy is indeed growing at a hugh rate, but as its economy approached that of the americans it most likely will slow down rate growth and thus any take over will not occur until around 2050? China doesn't need a whole lot of weapons from the west but some technology would be good. Radar and guidance technology would be good and naval technology. They need several helicopter carriers , larger troop ships and eventually some CVs. France/Euros can help here, but getting some german /swedish AIP technology into their subs would be priceless.

All in all lifting the ban is a good move and about time.

[edit on 18-12-2004 by psteel]

We're building our own CVN and it MUST be Chinese built because these technology are something China have never had experience with before so in order to learn and improve, the CVN must be Chinese built.

We don't need any landing vessels, we're doing that our selves too.

AIP is priceless, what I really want to see is that fuel cell technology on Yuan class, (i doubt it'll happen) but we're a little behind on fuel cell tech.

I would like too see some more Stealth Detection Radar technology go to China so we can defend against the next generation aircrafts but it'll be a while until anyone hostile to us will deploy 5th generation aircrafts except for US but they are trying to make up their minds on friends or foe.

China would probably concentrate of the purchase state of the art defensive weaponry like radars and development of anti-missile capabilities.

China does not need large scale state of the art offensive weaponry. From the state of play today, they can afford to ease off on the sabre rattling. The opposition just won the Taiwanese parliamentary elections by a very handsome margin. This is a clear vote against indepenence.

I feel that the US is over-reacting to this issue and is behaving irrationally.

US corporations like GM are investing hundreds of millions into China. Wal-mart, McDonalds, Pizza Hut etc have hundreds of millions of investments in China. Their intention is to integrate themselves into China and tap into the domestic market. In order to succeed, peace and stability is needed.

Ultimately, any weapons purchase would benefit these investments by bringing about stability. China has not exhibited any sort of colonial intention (save for Tibet).

In fact, they are having a renaissance in terms of wealth and health. If they do indeed have any intentions to expand their sphere of influence, they could just buy up businesses and interests. Take IBM as an example.

Originally posted by psteel
China combat readiness is more dependant on training than past wars. When the British went to Iraqi in 1990, they had not participated in mechanized warfare since the Korean war some 40 years before and not serious mechanized warfare since WW-II. However I don't think there was any problem with there troop training or doctrine.

This is not the cold war, the Chinese have their own version of NTC where they practice and improve their craft...The war against Vietnam highlighted some of the problems that have been worked on since then. If you think chinese army will be a push over think again.

Chinas economy is indeed growing at a hugh rate, but as its economy approached that of the americans it most likely will slow down rate growth and thus any take over will not occur until around 2050? China doesn't need a whole lot of weapons from the west but some technology would be good. Radar and guidance technology would be good and naval technology. They need several helicopter carriers , larger troop ships and eventually some CVs. France/Euros can help here, but getting some german /swedish AIP technology into their subs would be priceless.

All in all lifting the ban is a good move and about time.

[edit on 18-12-2004 by psteel]

What they need is to be contained in my opinion. And no, the British military has not not participated in any major warfare since WWII. They were in Vietnam, and the first Gulf War. China has no had any experience in any type of mechanized warfare since Vietnam. And I never said their army would be a "pushover." But it will be a long time before it becomes as effective as everyone thinks it will be. As for their navy and air force, those have no combat experience and no experience operating submarines or carriers in the true sense.

You people seem to forget this is the same country that drove over its own people with battle tanks. A country that lies to its people, and doesn't allow them true freedoms. If anything, the weapon ban should remain just that: a ban.

"Big Brothers" eye is upon them:
FY04 REPORT TO CONGRESS ON PRC MILITARY POWER

It is not as in depth as I have seen before, but as mentioned, their activites do not go unnoticed.




seekerof