The Biggest Lie in Medicine: The Cholesterol Conspiracy

Originally posted by FissionSurplus


Dragging in a ton of drugs without so much as a blood test is bad doctoring.

OBVIOUSLY the doctor did do blood tests, if he knew he didn't have high cholesterol...

reply to post by NavyDoc


Most of the things we are allergic to are Organic. Everyone's allergies and metabolic needs is different also.

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

Most of the things we are allergic to are Organic. Everyone's allergies and metabolic needs is different also.

Of course, which is why I dislike cookie-cutter medicine.

Originally posted by FissionSurplus

Science isn't some know-all perfect doctrine

reply to post by Ghost375

 

Yet you hold up science as the be-all and end-allway to put words in my mouth, and tell me to learn it. If you are correct in your assertion (and in this singular case I believe you are), then science is to be taken with a grain of salt, knowing that it is not perfect, it can be wrong, and often, as time goes by, it is proven to be.

So you say my thread is nothing but "bad science"....and then you say the above thing. LOL!

Please illuminate us as to what constitutes "good science".

I told you to learn science because you're pretending to know about scientific matters when you obviously don't.
I did not tell you to worship science. I told you to learn it because you are misinterpreting data and making bad conclusions.

Maybe I wouldn't make a big deal about it, if you weren't endangering people's health with your theory!
What you're doing is stupid and irresponsible.

You can't come up with a bat-# crazy theory, not provide any evidence for it, then say you're right because people can't debunk it. There are some theories that are so crazy they can't directly be debunked.

reply to post by Ghost375


Yet, here you are, with post after post. If I come acoss a "bat# crazy theory", I tend to move onto another topic that is more beneficial. This is a conspiracy website, after all. You want people who tell you what you agree with and want to hear? Go to WebMD.

Do you need to feel more superior by tossing out insults and contiuous postings that add up to nothing?

I'm not saying I'm 100% right. It is what I believe, and I have read enough on it that I believe there is something to it. The name of this forum is "Medical issues and conspiracies". Can all conspiracies be proven? Not with 100% certainty.

However, the way you couch your argument, acting like you are 100% correct, you could have come up with all sorts of evidence to show that you are right. But you haven't. Instead, you've attacked, gone on post after post, and insulted me. I can take petty insults from petty posters, but what really chaps my hide is your inability to do more than go on the attack, and not even give me something worthwhile in the way of proof to think about.

As I told the other one who had to resort to insults, insulting your opponent is the last vestige of somebody with nothing to back up what they are proporting.

Because you lack the ability to debate properly, confusing attacking with proving your case, I cannot waste anymore time on you.

As for anybody else who doesn't believe this, that's fine, everybody has their own views on these things. But when you resort to insults, you show your hand to be sorely lacking.

Great OP, I wish these videos would've been included in it (since this seems to be getting so much attention):

The Oiling of America


How Bad Science and Big Business Created the Obesity Epidemic

reply to post by FissionSurplus


It is something I have learned as a member of this boards is to never argue with those that are on specific agendas, after a while you can spot them in the boards with no problems.

Here is some articles on how Pharma spins science around

The Influence of Money on Medical Science

thyroid.about.com...

How Drug Company Money is Undermining Science, by Charles Seife, Scientific American: ...In the past few years the pharmaceutical industry has come up with many ways to funnel large sums of money—enough sometimes to put a child through college—into the pockets of independent medical researchers who are doing work that bears, directly or indirectly, on the drugs these firms are making and marketing. The problem is not just with the drug companies and the researchers but with the whole system—the granting institutions, the research labs, the journals, the professional societies, and so forth. No one is providing the checks and balances necessary to avoid conflicts. Instead organizations seem to shift responsibility from one to the other, leaving gaps in enforcement that researchers and drug companies navigate with ease, and then shroud their deliberations in secrecy.

economistsview.typepad.com...

Big pharma money runs deep within our own government as all those that are in big private business

Most of the drugs today and the information is base on faulty research paid by big pharma you don't have to go any farther than all the drugs lately that has been taken out of the market and those that are now on reviews.

FDA used to be an agency that took care of the people first, but due to budget cuts and government intervention now is under the pay roll of private interest

They are the ones that do make possible for faulty drugs to be in the market.

How the FDA, Big Pharma, and Doctors Cause Injury for Profit

www.wellnessresources.com...

In some ways the health care in America is the finest in the world. In other ways it is a severe risk to health, even deadly. The dark side of this issue involves medication profits at the expense of human health. This questionable health care approach costs at least 200 billion dollars a year and involves the costs of the drugs themselves, the injuries they cause, and the appropriate law suits that follow. The perpetrators of this fraud are the pharmaceutical companies acting in tandem with the FDA, doctors paid under the table by Big Pharma, and gullible doctors willing to write off-label prescriptions based on the hype they hear from doctors on the take and Big Pharma sales reps.

America is all for profits so our science has become also faulty and deceiving as long as it takes money from those that are after nothing but profits

Big Pharma, Bad Science

n June, the New England Journal of Medicine, one of the most respected medical journals, made a startling announcement. The editors declared that they were dropping their policy stipulating that authors of review articles of medical studies could not have financial ties to drug companies whose medicines were being analyzed.

The reason? The journal could no longer find enough independent experts. Drug company gifts and "consulting fees" are so pervasive that in any given field, you cannot find an expert who has not been paid off in some way by the industry. So the journal settled for a new standard: Their reviewers can have received no more than $10,000 from companies whose work they judge. Isn't that comforting?

www.thenation.com...#

Big pharma also buy doctors with favors and incentives to sell certain drugs for profits.[/n] Now they are after nurse practicioners.

Originally posted by Ghost375
You people keep mentioning these drugs have severe side effects....but you fail to mention the rate of these side effects....
the most serious one for statins is ALS.....it was found to have a rate of 9 in 60,000 people.
The memory loss that someone mentioned is found in rare cases. That means less than 1%.

Learn some science.

edit on 4-12-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

Doctors are trying to help you!! and the Pharmaceutical industry IS trying to make money, just like everyone else in this country.....but they have high standards.

edit on 4-12-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-12-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

one must also realize that these studies are done by the pharm company's themselves but i digress that's a whole nother can of worms and i don't want to divert the thread, good info coming.

oh hell seems like we're already on this subject but anyway still plenty of good info thanks folks!

reply to post by marg6043


I haven't seen any of that money where do I sign up?

reply to post by TruthxIsxInxThexMist


I'm not telling you not to eat anything if it keeps you healthy. We're all different, and what one person can thrive on, might make another sick. Grains in particular tend to cause some people allergic problems, as does things made from milk.

Everybody has to find what works for them, diet-wise. As for me, I can't seem to tolerate grains. I also have an allergy to most grasses,so it is possible (since many grains start as grasses) that this is my issue with them.

Sugar is considered an inflammatory food. Some people can handle it better than others. I cannot handle it at all anymore.

If you're healthy and happy, keep doin' what you're doin'!

Originally posted by NavyDoc
reply to post by marg6043

 

I haven't seen any of that money where do I sign up?

you have to go on tour Doc, lot's of speaking appearances can net 10k on up for an hour of your time. also i hope you never miss out on the pharma rep's free lunches.

Originally posted by Ghost375

Originally posted by BuffDaddy
I was given 8 different pills to take by my heart doctor, most were to lower my cholesterol. The thing is, I do not have high cholesterol. I went to see the doc because my heart was hurting one day while I was at the gym (I was sprinting like a mad man on the treadmill, doing some high-intensity interval training). I asked him why they were treating me for something I did not have and he said, "We prescribe the same regiment to all our patients for heart troubles." My diagnosis was, they did not know what was wrong with my heart. I was pretty blown away that they would prescibe me all those drugs when they did not know what was wrong. I asked him how many side effects would result from taking all those meds and he gave me a contemptuous look as though I was insulting his intelligence. I never took one pill and I never went back.

dude, it isn't a perfect science. He probably was just trying to help you.
They check for drug interactions. He probably gave you a look that said you were questioning his integrity and care for your well being, not intelligence.

Obviously something was wrong with your heart to the best of his abilities. Sue him for trying to help!

No, I am not interested in litigation against a doctor that was trying to help me. I understand they do the best they can with the knowledge that they have. My point is that they were giving me a bunch of drugs that were designed to treat someone who has high cholesteral when they did not even know what was wrong with me. How can they justify giving me a bunch of pills so they can just see what happens. Then when that doesn't work, they say "Oops,sorry the meds we gave you caused a stomach ulcer, but lets try some different drugs and see what that does, oh, and by the way, here are some more meds to treat that stomach ulcer..... Nope, not going to be a guinea pig, dude.

reply to post by NavyDoc


Sadly it is out there, is just that you got a conscience and by your post you are an honest and good good person so they are not targeting you.

or either you are not working for the right private sector yet. Whenever I see them (I call them the pill pushers) you know the big pharma reps around like scavengers in our local starbuck waiting like drug dealers with the bags full of goods for the doctors to give them the opportunity, Starbuck here in my neck of the woods falls under the big Phoebe Putney conglomerate (I call it a monopoly) because the have taken over the south.

I like starbuck coffee so I can not miss them every time I got to get my coffee.

BTW my daughter is also a nurse and she have some stories to tell.

reply to post by marg6043


Thank you, Marg. A most excellent post.

You are correct, some people have an "agenda" which becomes patently obvious, but I wasn't going to allow this agenda-driven person to hijack my thread without fighting back.

Silly me. I ought to know better by now. However, because of certain people desiring to attack and fight, it has pushed this thread a lot farther than it would have otherwise gotten. They do have their uses.....

I still maintain that modern medicine has been sacrificed on the altar of Profits, as your post so amply proves. The poor patients that are over-medicated are the ones that have the most to lose, and they are the ones who are forgotten in the scheme of things. Because I know how pharma reps operate, I would say that a lot of doctors are caught in this trap as well, because they are too busy to do the research on these drugs, so they believe what the rep tells them. The rep gets bonuses, so I believe they spend a lot of time focusing on what they say are the good aspects of the drug they're pushing, and very little to none on the negative side effects.

If it weren't for class-action lawsuits, I cannot imagine the horrors of what would be prescribed out there.

OP,

I don't believe you said exactly what it is about sugar that causes inflammation?

I appreciate what you have posted. but I see no reason to replace one boogey-man with another. I would agree with the generalization that "excess dietary sugar is bad." but if we are to conclude that it's the cause of arterial inflammation, is there evidence to support?

thanks in advance.

Originally posted by FissionSurplus
Instead, you've attacked, gone on post after post, and insulted me. I can take petty insults from petty posters, but what really chaps my hide is your inability to do more than go on the attack, and not even give me something worthwhile in the way of proof to think about.

As I told the other one who had to resort to insults, insulting your opponent is the last vestige of somebody with nothing to back up what they are proporting.

HAHA, I've given you plenty of proof. I'm getting more aggressive because you ignore my points and twist my words.

You're the only one not backing up what you're saying. I've given you numbers, you just pretend they aren't there.

I've shown that the points you are making are wrong, and I've also tried to explain that even if the evidence we're true, it still would not support the conclusion/theory you are drawing from it.

YOU have nothing to back up your theory.

reply to post by tgidkp


I could be off the mark, but believe it's an indirect cause. In my view, it's micro-organisms which we mostly overlook which feeds on the excess sugar consumption that causes the inflammation. I guess there's room for it to be both.

Originally posted by tgidkp
OP,

I don't believe you said exactly what it is about sugar that causes inflammation?

It gets turned into cholesterol!

In reality, the biggest source of abnormal cholesterol is not fat at all -- it's sugar. The sugar you consume converts to fat in your body. And the worst culprit of all is high fructose corn syrup. Consumption of high fructose corn syrup, which is present in sodas, many juices, and most processed foods, is the primary nutritional cause of most of the cholesterol issues we doctors see in our patients.

From the OP.


This is what I was saying in my very first post.....
Inflammation has to be caused by something....what is it! Cholesterol! and what causes the cholesterol, sugar!

But it's obviously not a conspiracy to make people dumb, because the government has been telling people excess sugar is bad for you and they have been saying HFCS is bad for you too!

But nah, let's misinterpret a bunch of scientific studies and make it into a conspiracy!

reply to post by tgidkp


This is an excellent, intelligent question....and a valid concern. Should we replace one boogey man with another?

What causes inflammation? Most importantly, the standard American diet causes inflammation. Most of us suffer from chronic inflammation and disease because the American diet is pro-inflammatory. It is rich in pro-inflammatory compounds, while lacking antioxidants and other nutrients that help to prevent and control inflammation.

How does our diet cause inflammation? One way is our excessive consumption of refined carbohydrates. Sugar and white flour are deadly poisons that have an inflammatory effect on the body. Unaware of this, the average American consumes more than 160 pounds of sugar and 200 pounds of white flour per year. Sugar and white flour increase blood sugar, and even a modest increase in blood sugar generates pro-inflammatory chemicals. Most people eat these poisons daily in the form of bread, pasta, breakfast cereal, cookies, cakes, soft drinks, candy, etc.

In addition, sugar and white flour cause inflammation and disease by forming AGEs.

AGEs are produced when a protein reacts with sugar, resulting in damaged, cross-linked proteins. As the body tries to protect you by breaking these AGEs apart, immune cells secrete large amounts of inflammatory chemicals. Many of the diseases that we think of as part of aging are actually caused by this process. Depending on where the AGEs occur, the result can be arthritis, heart disease, cataracts, memory loss, wrinkled skin or diabetes complications, to name a few.

Acidity is another problem. Most Americans eat an acidic diet caused by too much salt, sugar, white flour, dairy, meat and cola drinks. Many experts consider over-acidity to be one of the major causes of chronic inflammation, with increasing acidity causing increasing amounts of inflammation.

www.arizonaadvancedmedicine.com...

Hope this begins to answer your question. In my opinion, inflammation is a worthy boogey man to fear.

reply to post by Ghost375


It gets converted into triglyceride’s...stored fat. The OP is incorrect. The largest source for circulating cholesterol particles is your liver.