Understanding the Fiscal Cliff

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posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 02:15 PM
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Acclaimed author, Berkeley professor, and Clinton-era Secretary of Labor Robert Reich lays out the what, why and how of the Fiscal "Cliff", the showdown in Congress that Republicans created to demand painful cuts in vital domestic programs in exchange for raising taxes on the top 2%. Learn the facts, and the best way out of this forced showdown.



www.youtube.com...




excellent video on the subject and it's short too for the attention span challenged, lol

i agree with the democrat view on this subject, this is our time, we have suffered from the reps for too long now, now is the time that poor people get help and we have sharing and fairness..

say what you want, but that is the mission


thank you God, Thank YOu Magenta, thank YOU

edit on 3-12-2012 by cornucopia because: changed some letters





posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by cornucopia
 


I think you title is a little misleading OP. The video teaches absolutely nothing about understanding the fiscal cliff!

The more appropriate title should be Proof that Democracy in the United States has turned into a Mob Rule mentality............

This video is nothing more than blowing smoke to create more divisiveness in our country, (like we really need more of that) and does nothing to tell the truth as to how the two parties are in collusion to protect their sorry asses from the people actually finding out the truth that they are all criminals robbing the American people blind....
edit on 3-12-2012 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by cornucopia
 


I agree with #1-#4 and disagree with #5-#8.

As presented, this is classic far-left liberalism, which is NOT what the country voted for. Raise taxes (even taxes on everyone) AND cut spending, including on entitlement programs. That's called compromise, and that's what's called for, not "dig in and demand a 100% cave from the Republicans", which is no better than the "dig in and demand a 100% cave from the Democrats", which is the current Republican position.



posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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The fiscal cliff was leaped over a long time ago. Going with the extremist (and intellectually devoid) mindsets of those such as Reich will find the US in a place similar to Europe. In fact, because of irresponsible traitors on both sides of the aisle and anyone who believes in the clearly idiotic tenets of Keynesian economics (ie our Era's biggest buffoon, Paul Krugman), it might be too late. Now it is simply a matter of longterm mitigation through the use of tyranny and extraction of the middle class or just let these idiots go on their merry way and let it collapse as quickly as possible. The sooner to begin again by strengthening the foundations that these elites and their mindless followers hate so much. Namely, improve the Constitution to ensure that federal government can NEVER get this big and powerful again.



posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 02:53 PM
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to borrow the words of another, i think this is one of the most spot on and complex break down of what we have here in front of us, the citizens of these United States.


The pillars are crumbling. The $1.4 trillion wasted on two worthless wars of choice in the Middle East, the trillions wasted and liberties sacrificed for the never ending unwinnable War on Terror, the Keynesian spending frenzy that has driven the National Debt from $9 trillion to $16.3 trillion in the last five years, the looting of the American taxpayer by Wall Street and their co-conspirators at the Federal Reserve and in Congress, and the belief that ramping up the debt driven consumption that drives 71% of our GDP is our path to prosperity is absolutely freaking nuts. The pillars will not be abolished willingly. The ruling class depends upon their continued existence and expansion. There is the rub. The math doesn’t work. We’ve reached the point where continued expansion of debt and money printing no longer works. With a national debt to GDP ratio of 102% and a total credit market debt to GDP ratio of 350%, we have passed the Rogoff & Reinhart point of no return. This time is not different. A country cannot run trillion dollar deficits indefinitely and expect to not suffer the consequences. This is why those in power are increasingly resorting to propaganda, data manipulation, and outright lies to convince the masses of their omnipotence and brilliance in managing the fiscal affairs of the state.


the rest of the article is very much worth the read.

www.theburningplatform.com...

the fiscal cliff is a mere symptom of the gigantic gorilla in the room.



posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 02:56 PM
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Maybe you should look at this link and see how many small businesses will be effected. They're not millionaires. They're your corner deli, a restaurant you may go to and your dry cleaner. They're not poor, but they're not rich either. This is just another scam where Obama wants to appear he's looking out for the little guy. He's not. He will be hurting the little guy. Big corporations will not be effected by the increase. They will just pass on any increase to us.

This whole class warfare tactic is divisive and disgusting. Obama and his minions are just trying to further enslave the electorate and make everyone dependent on the government for sustenance.

US Census


Originally posted by cornucopia


Acclaimed author, Berkeley professor, and Clinton-era Secretary of Labor Robert Reich lays out the what, why and how of the Fiscal "Cliff", the showdown in Congress that Republicans created to demand painful cuts in vital domestic programs in exchange for raising taxes on the top 2%. Learn the facts, and the best way out of this forced showdown.



www.youtube.com...




excellent video on the subject and it's short too for the attention span challenged, lol

i agree with the democrat view on this subject, this is our time, we have suffered from the reps for too long now, now is the time that poor people get help and we have sharing and fairness..

say what you want, but that is the mission


thank you God, Thank YOu Magenta, thank YOU

edit on 3-12-2012 by cornucopia because: changed some letters




posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 03:35 PM
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Rebuttal:

#1 -- The wealthy have to pay their fair share of taxes.

Lets see. First, lets define "FAIR." So fair must mean that because you are wealthy AND successful you should pay a higher tax rate instead of a tax rate that EVERYONE should pay. We should be paying a minimum tax, a flat rate, based on your income. That means, if you make 50K, you pay 30%, and if you make 200K, you pay 30%. Do the math. At 50K, you pay $15000 in taxes. At 200K, you pay $60,000 in taxes. Why don't you liberals get that?

He states "that is what the election was all about, and you won." Ah, no, the election was not about raising taxes on the wealthy, it was about the Democrats BUYING votes through hand outs. Remember her:



#2 -- DO NOTHING. Well, he could not have said it better. That is EXACTLY what congress has done over the past 4 years -- NOTHING.

#3 -- Tax Cuts for the Middle Class

The middle class happens to pay the least amount of taxes, overall, than the wealthy as it is. I am all for a strong middle class....but define "Middle Class"

#4 -- Eliminate the wealthy's UNFAIR TAX LOOPHOLES

He must be referring to the same loop holes that nearly EVERY Senator, Congressman, and President currently employ to reduce their own tax burdens. Yeah, lets do that...in fact, lets cut the SALARIES of these people too!

#5 -- Dont cut Medicare or Medicaid

Wow. Amazing. Yet, there has never been a cut to Social Security made by Repulicans, but yet, Obama just took 750BILLION out of Medicare to fund Obamacare. Are you not tired of these politicians scaring the elderly? I am. Social Security has a liability of over 60 TRILLION dollars. That means, if everyone retired today, there is not enough money in the entire WORLD to pay those who have earned their SS income. Yeah. The GDP of the entire world is less than 70 TRILLION. But, lets spend more money...

He goes on to say "Americans Depend on these safety nets..." Does he mean like the one where the secured creditors of GM were cut out of their money when he put the UNION pensions in front of the secured creditors who were hoping that their monies were safe, because by the very definition of "SEcuRED CREDITOR" meant, at one time, YOU GET PAID FIRST in a Bankruptcy. But no, that safety net was destroyed, and most of the holders were people with 401K's and IRA's, who worked hard for their money, were hurt most. All in the name of Government Control and UNION thuggery.

#6 -- Investments in Future Prosperity

Well, he says, "If the money spent is an investment, then it should be done" -- Guess what, joker...the "investment" here is nothing but SPECULATIVE, and in this case, very risky. Unlike cutting money, for bridges to nowhere, tunnels that don't need built, and above all, those "Shovel Ready Jobs" that never existed. Or, the hundreds of billions given to Solar and Wind companies that failed. Or how about the Volt electric car? 25,000 sold, 3 years. GM loses 10K per car they sell. Really? And you don't see a problem with this?

#7 -- Cut the military

Isnt it funny that the Democratic congress during the BUSH administration was all over Bush for not having enough bullet piercing armor on the Hummers and our troops? Do you really want a military that is less or better equipped? Lets get rid of the ridiculous WASTE that our government spends instead.

#8 -- Jobs First

Four years later, we have lost more jobs that created. Why? Spending. Poor leadership. Politica gridlock. And, above all, Obamacare. No small business is going to expand until Obamacare is defined. Do you realize that the law was passed and the details of which are still being written? Same thing happened in 1913, folks, when the Income tax was passed. Nobody saw it coming. In fact, in 1913, the bill passed over Xmas Holiday when everyone was away at 2am in the morning. Yeah, we should trust our government with Obamacare when they can't run a railroad.

This video is a joke. If you truly believe this crap, I feel bad for you.



posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by cornucopia
 


Spain didnt' want to tax the wealthy .. how did that turn out??



posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by Bilk22
Maybe you should look at this link and see how many small businesses will be effected. They're not millionaires. They're your corner deli, a restaurant you may go to and your dry cleaner. They're not poor, but they're not rich either. This is just another scam where Obama wants to appear he's looking out for the little guy. He's not. He will be hurting the little guy. Big corporations will not be effected by the increase. They will just pass on any increase to us.

This whole class warfare tactic is divisive and disgusting. Obama and his minions are just trying to further enslave the electorate and make everyone dependent on the government for sustenance.

US Census


Originally posted by cornucopia


Acclaimed author, Berkeley professor, and Clinton-era Secretary of Labor Robert Reich lays out the what, why and how of the Fiscal "Cliff", the showdown in Congress that Republicans created to demand painful cuts in vital domestic programs in exchange for raising taxes on the top 2%. Learn the facts, and the best way out of this forced showdown.



www.youtube.com...




excellent video on the subject and it's short too for the attention span challenged, lol

i agree with the democrat view on this subject, this is our time, we have suffered from the reps for too long now, now is the time that poor people get help and we have sharing and fairness..

say what you want, but that is the mission


thank you God, Thank YOu Magenta, thank YOU

edit on 3-12-2012 by cornucopia because: changed some letters





There are no corner delis or restaurants. Drive around and try to find a mom and pop store.. tehy do not exist. It is all walmart, and chain stores.

I have not been to a locally owned non chain restaurant in a VERY long time. Why? because huge chains put them out of business because they cannot compete.

WE have no local delis here maybe one or two and they are marginal as tehy exploit the "organic" non gmo meat and produce crowd. Other than that it is all walmart deli or other big mega store chain deli..

where do you live exactly??

Walmart is the best example for what happens when you let a corp run amuck. they exploit cheap labor in foreign lands. They exploit cheap labor here and they kill small businesses who were making a living by giving kids and elderly jobs... Now those people who got put out of business take the low paying jobs walmart gives and the elderly and kids are left without work.


YOu condense many small business owners under one business owner and then we are told we want to give such corporations breaks and incentives to expand that same crappy business model.



posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 08:08 PM
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We need to raise taxes and cut spending.

It really isn't hard to figure this out, the fact that neither side will admit to that shows why our government is completely broken. Cuts have to be the majority however because our ability to tax is limited.

The best thing that can happen at this point is no agreement. Anything they agree to will have less deficit impact, and we need as much reduction as we can get as fast as we can get it.

As for the video #5 and #8 are absolutely ridiculous. How can he say with a straight face that no entitlement cuts should be accepted when they are eating up 100% of current tax revenue, and medical costs are growing 9% a year. I know he knows the numbers, for him to make a video like this shows he does not give a damn about future retirees, because to do nothing guarantees they will get at best a small fraction of what today's beneficiaries receive. Sad thing is the Republicans don't really want to touch them either.

Number 8 is stupid because government does not create real jobs. Fake demand is not real recovery, the market is always far more efficient than the government. When the government is using a 100% borrowed money to get back 30% tax income how does that make a lick of sense, that is a loss of 70% that gets picked up by the rest of the tax payers. When those projects end the people are unemployed again and it accomplished nothing except put us deeper in the hole. It really is simple, market manipulation never works in the long run.

Number 6 is questionable as well, it's ok to provide some seed money for new tech, but it needs to survive or thrive without government dollars to prop it up.



posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 08:27 PM
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Gov jobs are zero end returns. They do not produce a purchasable or exportable product. I am for fixing our infrastructure...it needs to be done. Now is as good a time as any...but! This is not the path to prosperity. It is just civil work that the Gov is supposed to be doing all along, not p!ssing our money away on stupid shiz and letting our roads and bridges deteriorate.

Infrastructure is important to keeping the wheels of commerce turning. We need roads and bridges, non-leaking waterlines and sewage lines...etc...etc...etc. All of these municipal, state and federal "duties" is one of the reasons we agreed to pay taxes to begin with...not to prop up despot leaders or to help overthrow them.

Our gov is the absolute least efficient body to accomplish anything...the bureaucracy is an abomination that gobbles up revenue and stifles decision making...there is a small place for it...but no where near where it is now.

The other crap...common sense rules against most of it...

We need to go over the cliff, let the sequestration take effect and deal with it. The 607 billion dollars in cuts and tax increases is about 1/2 enough...when the budget is balanced and there is zero deficit...that is where it is supposed to be...then we can look at addressing the national debt that is 16.3 trillion dollars and growing.



edit on 12/3/2012 by Jeremiah65 because: (no reason given)
edit on 12/3/2012 by Jeremiah65 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 10:16 PM
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reply to post by phantomjack
 


Yep. The most laughable one was about jobs. Obamacare is probably the most job killing legislation in the history of the the nation. Rising taxes for businesses and wealthy people can have no other result than the loss of jobs.
The fantasy world bubble that liberals live in may unfortunately not pop until the rest of the world collapses with it, as a result of their unsustainable ignorance and incredible irresponsibility. Then they will become dangerous, because they are parrots and sheep who will follow whatever class warfare mongering demagogue that will inevitably come along (Probably one funded by the very "evil, rich people" they blame their own failures on).



posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 10:26 PM
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Guess you don't know what earth coordinates are. I live exactly there as stated in my avatar. It's called Brooklyn, NY.

So you don't believe the US Census? No mom and pop shops? Hmmm? They're lying?

And you seem to have been fooled by Obama. He's the same corporatist every president before him was. Can you do math? Tax the rich 100%. It won't make a difference in the budget shortfall and it will never reduce the debt.


Originally posted by votan

Originally posted by Bilk22
Maybe you should look at this link and see how many small businesses will be effected. They're not millionaires. They're your corner deli, a restaurant you may go to and your dry cleaner. They're not poor, but they're not rich either. This is just another scam where Obama wants to appear he's looking out for the little guy. He's not. He will be hurting the little guy. Big corporations will not be effected by the increase. They will just pass on any increase to us.

This whole class warfare tactic is divisive and disgusting. Obama and his minions are just trying to further enslave the electorate and make everyone dependent on the government for sustenance.

US Census


Originally posted by cornucopia


Acclaimed author, Berkeley professor, and Clinton-era Secretary of Labor Robert Reich lays out the what, why and how of the Fiscal "Cliff", the showdown in Congress that Republicans created to demand painful cuts in vital domestic programs in exchange for raising taxes on the top 2%. Learn the facts, and the best way out of this forced showdown.



www.youtube.com...




excellent video on the subject and it's short too for the attention span challenged, lol

i agree with the democrat view on this subject, this is our time, we have suffered from the reps for too long now, now is the time that poor people get help and we have sharing and fairness..

say what you want, but that is the mission


thank you God, Thank YOu Magenta, thank YOU

edit on 3-12-2012 by cornucopia because: changed some letters





There are no corner delis or restaurants. Drive around and try to find a mom and pop store.. tehy do not exist. It is all walmart, and chain stores.

I have not been to a locally owned non chain restaurant in a VERY long time. Why? because huge chains put them out of business because they cannot compete.

WE have no local delis here maybe one or two and they are marginal as tehy exploit the "organic" non gmo meat and produce crowd. Other than that it is all walmart deli or other big mega store chain deli..

where do you live exactly??

Walmart is the best example for what happens when you let a corp run amuck. they exploit cheap labor in foreign lands. They exploit cheap labor here and they kill small businesses who were making a living by giving kids and elderly jobs... Now those people who got put out of business take the low paying jobs walmart gives and the elderly and kids are left without work.


YOu condense many small business owners under one business owner and then we are told we want to give such corporations breaks and incentives to expand that same crappy business model.




posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 10:46 PM
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1. It's by moveon.org. A socialist mouthpeice.

2. Pe;ople keep thinking this country is a democracy. We're not. Never have been. We're a Republic. You know "And to the Republic, for which it stands..."

3. Definition of a Democracy: 6 wolves and 4 sheep voting on what's for dinner.



posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 10:50 PM
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Anytime you have the words "Forward" and "Cliff" tied to any admistration, you know it's not going to have a happy ending.

United we stood, divided we have fallen,



posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 11:14 AM
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Yeah, this is not an explanation of the fiscal cliff, this is an explanation as to what democrats should do to appease their voters, since apparently theyre too dumb to figure it out for themselves...
edit on 4-12-2012 by cartesia because: changed it



posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 11:20 AM
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it's all a game for the people with money...



for the people without much money life can be a struggle, it's time we fix that.


Humans have suffered long enough, there is no more need to experience suffering



posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by cornucopia
i agree with the democrat view on this subject, this is our time, we have suffered from the reps for too long now


I still can't believe there are people ON THIS FORUM that still think like this. Of all the places on the internet, a forum dedicated to conspiracies and the alternative analysis, and there are STILL people that buy into the Republican/Democrat paradigm, as if one side is good and one side is bad. Like EITHER side is going to tell the truth.

You have absolutely no idea about the economy and our fiscal situation if this is your sentiment.



posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by cornucopia
it's all a game for the people with money...



for the people without much money life can be a struggle, it's time we fix that.


Humans have suffered long enough, there is no more need to experience suffering


Are you really that freaking deluded to believe that you are going to get ANY HELP WHATSOEVER from the people currently in power in the federal government? Really?

We have an annual deficit of $1.2 trillion, and the Republican offer was to cut it by $200 billion per year (which means it won't be even close to that).

When you start advocating for the arrest of the bankers that created this mess through fraud, then we can start talking. Until then, get off the internet.



posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 10:55 PM
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shills coming out of the woodworks on this one, awesome



we got em all rounded up!


LOL


thanks



i can tell you how this ends, you are forced to share...lol

thank you God...

darkness is now over, light is coming in...


extreme greed is no longer, your material wealth means nothing...your bank account is just numbers on a computer screen.....bleep, bloop, all gone...lol, what is important?


love...

karma..

forgiveness..

service to others..

creation...

truth



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