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Native Americans and Northern Europeans More Closely Related Than Previously Thought

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posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 09:16 PM
Its the Lyra/Ple'o'sha'n one. That is the one that is similiar from Norwegian to the North Amercian Natives, and Polynesians.

posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 10:00 PM
Once again, a spanner is thrown into the works of the Out of Africa theory.
I love the comment, Eastern peoples moved west and maybe into Africa to mix with archaic "Chimp" Humans.

In more modern terms, you can often see Asianized/Europeans from East Europe/Russia, Fair skinned caucasians, with oriental type eyes, but blonde hair and blue eyes. I would think this would have come from the Mongolian Invasions into modern Europe 1000 years ago...there were 100,000 Mongol soldiers and all their assistants. Im sure they "Conquered" a few native white women, as they got to Poland........

Interesting to note that there was a race of Pygmies in Australia when white people arrived. Unfortunately.."Modern Scientists" have virtually obliterated their existence from the history books. A lot of this is due to White Lawyer involvement in getting "Land Rights" etc for the natives that are left........Who may not have actually any affinity to that area of land......

Also remember that the native Australian man has probably been there up to 100,000 years......and probably a mixture of many different waves of ancient man.
The Australian people NEVER used or knew of the bow and Arrow, but used the Woomera (throwing stick for their spears), that was similarly used by South American Peoples!!!
And of course the Boomerang.......Which incidently was known and used in EQYPT!!!!!! even King Tuts tomb had gold boomerangs in it........ergo another mystery.. did the Eqyptians visit Australia?
Note, Australian Natives have NO knowledge of black Africa in their legends or dreamtime, and do not consider them brothers, BUT some tribes, consider the Tamal, Indians and original Eqyptians as Their Descendants.......

All fascinating.

posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 10:25 PM
reply to post by Hanslune

Actually, it was Asia NOT Africa!

posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 02:00 AM

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by Hanslune

Actually, it was Asia NOT Africa!

Still Africa, this study appears to me to be discussing what occured after OOA

posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 10:33 AM
So sorry I haven't had the time to respond,


thanks for posting,

I do believe they came from both the Atlantic and the Pacific side, I do recall an article that at one time the Atlantic was lower, I do believe that, everything needs to be covered, genetics, myth and legend,rock art, migration,

One thing that comes to mind is Tibetan and Siberian Shamanism.

But I think this will unlock the doors.

posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 10:35 AM

Originally posted by Unity_99
Its the Lyra/Ple'o'sha'n one. That is the one that is similiar from Norwegian to the North Amercian Natives, and Polynesians.

Thanks for the reminder, at another forum we spent many years posting these links one was how people of Polynesian islands jumped themselves into the Americans.
edit on 103131p://bTuesday2012 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 10:39 AM
reply to post by MDDoxs

The questions I always come back to is; How do some groups of our ancient ancestors get to X location and in X amount of time ahead of other groups.

That is what I was thinking about this morning, and why was North America a no mans land for so long, or was it.

then there is the bottleneck theory, just trying to write down some things before I forget them.

posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 10:40 AM

Originally posted by Hanslune
Here's the link to the abstract on that report


The most striking finding is a clear signal of admixture into northern Europe, with one ancestral population related to present-day Basques and Sardinians and the other related to present-day populations of northeast Asia and the Americas. This likely reflects a history of admixture between Neolithic migrants and the indigenous Mesolithic population of Europe, consistent with recent analyses of ancient bones from Sweden and the sequencing of the genome of the Tyrolean “Iceman.”

OH thank you very much.

posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 01:07 PM
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

All good questions Tex.

posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 03:55 PM
A different view on the report

A different view

posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 07:19 PM
Hmmmm, I don't know,

was reading though the comments on this site

posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 07:28 PM
reply to post by Hanslune

Genetic history of indigenous peoples of the Americas

For more details on this topic, see Haplogroup Q (Y-DNA).
Spread of Haplogroup Q in Indigenous populations.

Q-M242 (mutational name) is the defining (SNP) of Haplogroup Q (Y-DNA) (phylogenetic name).[8] Within the Q clade, there are 14 haplogroups marked by 17 SNPs.2009[27][28] In Eurasia haplogroup Q is found among Siberian populations, such as the modern Chukchi and Koryak peoples. In particular two populations exhibit large concentrations of the Q-M242 mutation, the Kets (93.8%) and the Selkups (66.4%).[29] The Kets are thought to be the only survivors of ancient nomads living in Siberia.[5] Their population size is very small; there are fewer than 1,500 Kets in Russia.2002[5] The Selkups have a slightly larger population size than the Kets, with approximately 4,250 individuals. 2002[8] Starting the Paleo-Indians period, a migration to the Americas across the Bering Strait (Beringia), by a small population carrying the Q-M242 mutation took place.[30] A member of this initial population underwent a mutation, which defines its descendant population, known by the Q-M3 (SNP) mutation.[31] These descendants migrated all over the Americas.[27]
Q subclades Q1a3a and Q1a3a1a
For more details on Q1a3a and other Q subclades, see Haplogroup Q1a3a (Y-DNA).

Haplogroup Q1a3a (Y-DNA) and/or Q-M3 is defined by the presence of the rs3894 (M3) (SNP).[3][5][32] The Q-M3 mutation is roughly 15,000 years old as the initial migration of Paleo-Indians into the Americas occurred.[7][33] Q-M3 is the predominant haplotype in the Americas at a rate of 83% in South American populations,[34] 50% in the Na-Dené populations, and in North American Eskimo-Aleut populations at about 46%.[29] With minimal back-migration of Q-M3 in Eurasia, the mutation likely evolved in east-Beringia, or more specifically the Seward Peninsula or western Alaskan interior. The Beringia land mass began submerging, cutting off land routes.[6][29][35]

Since the discovery of Q-M3, several subclades of M3-bearing populations have been discovered. An example is in South America, where some populations have a high prevalence of (SNP) M19 which defines subclade Q1a3a1a.[34] M19 has been detected in (59%) of Amazonian Ticuna men and in (10%) of Wayuu men.[34] Subclade M19 appears to be unique to South American Indigenous peoples, arising 5,000 to 10,000 years ago.[34] This suggests that population isolation and perhaps even the establishment of tribal groups began soon after migration into the South American areas.[5][36]
Haplogroup R1
For more details on this topic, see Haplogroup R1 (Y-DNA).
Spread of Haplogroup R in Indigenous populations.

Haplogroup R1 (Y-DNA) (specially R1b) is the second most predominant Y haplotype found among indigenous Amerindians after Q (Y-DNA).[37] The distribution of R1 is believed to be associated with the re-settlement of Eurasia following the last glacial maximum. One theory put forth is that it entered the Americas with the initial founding population.[34] A second theory is that it was introduced during European colonization.[37] R1 is very common throughout all of Eurasia except East Asia and Southeast Asia. R1 (M137) is found predominantly in North American groups like the Ojibwe (79%), Chipewyan (62%), Seminole (50%), Cherokee (47%), Dogrib (40%) and Papago (38%).[37] The principal-component analysis suggests a close genetic relatedness between some North American Amerindians (the Chipewyan and the Cheyenne) and certain populations of central/southern Siberia, at the resolution of major Y-chromosome haplogroups. This pattern agrees with the distribution of mtDNA haplogroup X, which is found in North America, is absent from eastern Siberia, but is present in the Altais of southern central Siberia.[34][38][39]
Haplogroup C-M39
For more details on this topic, see Haplogroup_C-M39_(Y-DNA).
Spread of Haplogroup C-M217 in Indigenous populations.

Haplogroup C-M217 is mainly found in indigenous Siberians, Mongolians and Oceanic populations. Haplogroup C-M217 is the most widespread and frequently occurring branch of the greater (Y-DNA) haplogroup C-M130. Haplogroup C-M217 descendant C-P39 is commonly found in today's Na-Dené speakers with the highest frequency found among the Athabaskans at 42%.[30] This distinct and isolated branch C3b (P39) includes almost all the Haplogroup C-M217 Y-chromosomes found among all indigenous peoples of the Americas.[40] The Na-Dené groups are also unusual among indigenous peoples of the Americas in having a relatively high frequency of Q-M242 (25%).[29] This indicates that the Na-Dené migration occurred from the Russian Far East after the initial Paleo-Indian colonization, but prior to modern Inuit, Inupiat and Yupik expansions.[9][10][13]

posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 10:24 PM
There is a place called Yuzhny Olenii Ostrov in the far north Russia that is the site of one of the largest mesolithic
burial site in europe. This is from an article discussing a disertation on the genetics of the people buried there.

Like this man

From the study itself

This study aims at filling gaps in the knowledge of the genetic history of eastern Europeans and of European genetic outliers, the Saami and the Sardinians. This study presents a significant extension to the knowledge of past human mitochondrial diversity. Ancient remains temporally-sampled from three groups of European populations have been examined: north east Europeans (200 – 8,000 years before present; N = 76), Iron Age Scythians of the Rostov area, Russia (2,300 – 2,600 years before present; N = 16), Bronze Age individuals of central Sardinia, Italy (3,200 – 3,400 years before present; N = 16). The genetic characterisation of these populations principally relied on sequencing of the mitochondrial control region and typing of single nucleotide polymorphisms in the coding region


Mitochondrialdata revealed additional levels of complexity in the population history of Europeans that had remained unknown from the studyof modernpopulations.This justifies the relevance of broadening the sampling of ancient mitochondrialDNAinbothtimeand space. This study aims at filling gaps in the knowledge of the genetic history of eastern Europeans and of European genetic outliers, the Saami andthe Sardinians.

The abstract for the original paper.

And this gentleman

This article goes into great detail about the author's take on the data,

Clio Der Sarkissian’s dissertation reports on ancient DNA from the Bronze Age Bolshoi Olenii Ostrov site (3500 YBP) in the Kola Peninsula (Kol’skii poluostrov, in Russian), the Early Neolithic Popov site (7000 YBP) and the largest Mesolithic burial ground in Europe –the Yuzhnyi Olenii Ostrov (Oleneostrovskii mogil’nik, in Russian) site in Karelia (northwestern Russia) dated at 7500-7000 YBP (see below).


Karelia has historically been occupied by Karelians (or Karely in Russian), the speakers of the West Finnic branch of the Uralic family, but the ancient DNA recovered from the site suggests that there was no strong continuity between Yuzhnyi Olenii Ostrov people and modern Karelians, Finns or Saami, hence Uralic-speakers must have colonized this area in post-Mesolithic times. Craniologically, the Yuzhnyi Olenii Ostrov burial is dominated by Caucasoid morphology (left) but, importantly, there is a small number of skulls that display Mongoloid traits (right). Odontologically, the burial shows elevated frequencies of several Sinodonty (Northeast Asian-Amerindian) traits, including shoveling (the same trend as observed in other places such as the Caucasus), six-cusp upper molar, deflecting wrinkle of the metaconid and distal trigonid crest, which can be interpreted as either the preservation of archaic (plesiomorphic) tooth morphology in Mesolithic Europeans (e.g., six-cusp UM is found as far back as Homo erectus) or as gene flow from Asians and or American Indians (see Зубова А.В. 2011. “Одонтологические данные к проблеме «монголоидности» населения Восточной Европы в мезолитическую эпоху,” Вестник Московского университета . Серия XXIII. Антропология. № 1).

Among the surprising findings from Yuzhnyi Olenii Ostrov mtDNA are hg H (a highly frequent modern European haplogroup, which so far has been poorly attested in pre-Neolithic sites) and, especially, hg C1, which is found at highest frequency and diversity in the New World. Hg U2e is also interesting as it’s related to hg U2 recovered from the earliest European mtDNA sample in Kostenki (southern Russia) coming from the 30,000 YBP time period. Hg U5b1 and hf V typical for modern Saami are not attested at Yuzhnyi Olenii Ostrov, but the sister clade of U5b1, U5a, is found in Yuzhnyi Olenii Ostrov, Bolshoi Olenii Ostrov and modern Saami. The sublineage attribution of of U5a in the former is unknown.

Most of world diversity in hg C1 is in the Americas. Hg C1 is known in the New World in three high-frequency forms – C1b, C1c and C1d (see below, from Der Sarkissian 2011, 165).

posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 10:29 AM
reply to post by punkinworks10

thank you punkin

posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 02:32 PM
Perhaps an ancient culture much more highly develop psychically.

Who communicated with higher dimensional plasma life forms.

posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 02:44 PM

Good for DNA analysis.
Settlements from Europe and elsewhere were going on around the globe and
America was not left out. According to Fell in a 1000 years separation from
homelands between 400AD the fall of Rome where the shipping still took
place and 1492 when the land appeared again to society the Americans
became the savage Indians. Lost for a 1000 years, amazing.

So Native Americans and Northern Europeans are related for good reason.

posted on Apr, 30 2013 @ 10:30 AM
The real reason is that in 598 BC,a few Isralelites(Tribe of Joseph) fled Jerusalem from Nebucchadnezzar and landed in Panama near Colombia on the PACIFIC SIDE while one of the sons of Zacharia Tribe of Judah)escaped by way of Egypt too but came across by way of the Atlantic Ocean,landing in North America(to become the North American Indians)by 1500 AD. Most of the Europeans that came over to N. America are also of the Tribe of Joseph and are traceable back to Ancient Israel too. This is why Europeans are related to Native Americans today. Most of the Scattered tribes of Israel separated from the Germans tribes (Assyrians) back in 600 BC by migrating to Scandinavian Areas. The Gentiles stayed mostly in Central Europe and the Romans kept hold of the South.The Israelites are all related to the Jews who are Israelites too.

posted on May, 6 2013 @ 06:00 PM
reply to post by Stormdancer777

Not to point to the elephant in the room: Kennewich Man. Also all the tales from natives about the evil cannibal, red hair giants, their "mighty" ancestors annihilated.

Taken together with this recent DNA study, only reinforces the concept of North America being the ancestral homeland of the Caucasian races.

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