British Tax:Families with one bread-winner pay highest tax in developed world of - 73 PER CENT

Originally posted by libertytoall
YOU WOULD HAVE NOTHING if it weren't for the wealthy businessman.

That is not true at all. In fact the opposite is the truth. The people were doing just fine before capitalism.

Wealthy business men are nothing without labour. But labour can work just fine with your wealthy business man.

1. The end of the High Middle Ages

"Capitalism was not, by any means, a "free market" evolving naturally or peacefully from the civilization of the high Middle Ages. As Oppenheimer argued, capitalism as a system of class exploitation was a direct successor to feudalism, and still displays the birth scars of its origins in late feudalism.

Romantic medievalists like Chesterton and Belloc recounted a process in the high Middle Ages by which serfdom had gradually withered away, and the peasants had transformed themselves into de facto freeholders who paid a nominal quit-rent. The feudal class system was disintegrating and being replaced by a much more libertarian and less exploitative one. Immanuel Wallerstein argued that the likely outcome would have been "a system of relatively equal small-scale producers, further flattening out the aristocracies and decentralizing the political structures."

Although such medievalists no doubt idealized that world considerably, it was still far superior to the world of the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. Kropotkin described, in terms evocative of William Morris, the rich life of the High Middle Ages, "with its virile affirmation of the individual, and which succeeded in creating a society through the free federation of men, of villages and of towns. "In those cities, sheltered by their conquered liberties, inspired by the spirit of free agreement and of free initiative, a whole new civilization grew up and flourished in a way unparalleled to this day."133 The free cities were virtually independent; although the crown "granted" them a charter in theory, in reality the charter was typically presented to the king and to the bishop of the surrounding diocese as a fait accompli, when "the inhabitants of a particular borough felt themselves to be sufficiently protected by their walls...."

Take a good look at our history, and it should become clear capitalism isn't what you think it is.

so sick and tired of this country. so glad someone made this thread. words can't express how pissed off I am with the uk right now. Ill just sit back and watch this thread


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

"Wealthy business men are nothing without labour. But labour can work just fine with your wealthy business man."

That should have read...

"Wealthy business men are nothing without labour. But labour can work just fine without your wealthy business man."

I still find it hard to believe that they got voted in in the first place.
Are people really that thick or just delusional? Its not rocket science for Gods sake!
The tory toffs will take us back to Dickensian times sooner rather than later!
Just like thatcher wanted. They don't care about anybody, least of all their chumbs, the lib dems.
The tories love inflicting misery. They love to blame everyone as it is nothing more than a game to them.

reply to post by happinness


Despite the fact the actual story is a load of rubbish, it is quite disingenuous of you to paint like the current tax level in the UK is anything to do with the Tories.

It is, in fact, a legacy of 13 years of Labour tax & spend. The Coalition Government has actual reduced the tax burden for the low and middle earners since coming into power. I take home more now than I did in 2009 and we've had a pay freeze for the intervening years.

One solution to high taxes is providing jobs to all that want them and making work a condition of welfare where appropriate. Since private industry won't hire these people the government needs to hire them to compete with the same for profit industries. With the profit motive eliminated i think they will compete successfully, unless certain political elements are able to sabotage such efforts. Unless we are willing to go to such a system high taxes are here to stay no matter how revolting they are to me. We can't cut spending enough and the majority of the people are unable to pay more.

If there is really no place to put these people to work, then we have to take a different direction. That would include letting the government simply print the money they need to operate rather than borrow it. You could eliminate taxes entirely. If production was actually raised to meet the nations needs then efficiency of scale would point to lower prices which would offset the inflationary effects. Limiting the amount of leverage banks are able to take on, on a gradual basis would also limit any effects of inflation over time.

Nothing they are talking about doing in Washington would make things any better. We need to change the system rather than making changes to the system.

reply to post by stumason

Look Sir, I don't wish to be rude, but think about how your statement came across?
' I'm alright Jack, pull up the ladder!'
I work with the homeless and my God, I can tell you they aren't all druggies and nutters. It would break your heart if you could see first hand what
I see on a daily basis. Ordinary people broken by this callus government!
You are very fortunate and hold that thought close to your heart, because it could be you one day, a family memeber or a dear friend
. At grass roots level things are so bad, you can even imagine what could be next. The media piss me off, only showing ugly people who maybe a bit intellectuallty challenged!
They go to these towns and seem to pick on people outside the job centres, who perhaps never had a good start in life and expect them to know what's going on and form an opinion.
I mean these tories will have a good xmas. Most peoples bank balance will be at zero in the new year, to be expected to start all over again!
Of course all these money lenders will have a field day, but I don't think that will even cross camerons mind or his affected wife! They would not
Have heard of Wonga or a pawn brokers!
You should see the stuff the rich give to charity! Shoes and boots worth hundreds of pounds, never been worn.
Expensive coats, never been worn! It is truly disgusting! One item could feed a family for a month in monetary terms.
Earlier this year I work in an emergancy shelter when it was minus 6 outside! It was the worst I have ever seen to date. I have never seen so many disposessed people in my life in modern day London.
Oh and the tv popped in for a few minutes, but they didn't stay long!
Some of my colleagues were so upset they couldn't continue their shift and went home!
It was as bad as that and its getting worse!
At least Labour gave people some hope. They might not be perfect but this lot in power are scum!
Google all the GOOD things Labour did. You will be supprised!
Just to add we are the laughing stock of europe, we were doing so well!!

Originally posted by happinness
I still find it hard to believe that they got voted in in the first place.
Are people really that thick or just delusional? Its not rocket science for Gods sake!
The tory toffs will take us back to Dickensian times sooner rather than later!
Just like thatcher wanted. They don't care about anybody, least of all their chumbs, the lib dems.
The tories love inflicting misery. They love to blame everyone as it is nothing more than a game to them.

And it was going soooo well under labour wasn't it?

Originally posted by happinness
reply to post by stumason

 

At least Labour gave people some hope. They might not be perfect but this lot in power are scum!
Google all the GOOD things Labour did. You will be supprised!
Just to add we are the laughing stock of europe, we were doing so well!!

I don't want to put you off your rant, but you seem very badly informed. Labour gave us all a credit boom followed by a massive bust. 'Giving people hope'? What a ridiculous statement. They (the government) spent money they didn't have to produce a sham that started to be exposed as the money started to run out.

'Google the good things labour did'? Hahahahahahaha, you can actually also google the good things Margaret Thatcher did - where would your stance be on that?

reply to post by happinness


First things first, I am no Tory fanboy, just pointing out the facts matey. Labour didn't "offer hope", they whole heartedly supported the continuation of the decline in British manufacturing, balanced our whole economy on the fortunes of the banks and blew a rather healthy budget surplus in 1997 by turning it into a chronic budget deficit a decade later. They created a whole class of people who are now reliant on benefits, even if they are working and have openly admitted to trying to socially engineer the UK into some sort of multicultural utopia.

I could go on.... But seriously, offering hope? No, they took out a big credit card, paid for a whopping great free for all with it then buggered off and left us the bill. Now, the Tories ain't much better and they have missed some bloody golden opportunities to set this country back on the right path, but dither miserably. We're all boned if we keep buying into this dog and pony show that is party politics.

That wasn't a rant, I am mearly trying to reveal the facts from a grass root level! lol
Don't start me off on thatcher.
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!
You can guffer and s'n-word' like they all do but one thing I know for certain there is more going on than meets the eye and its got
Nothing to do with your or my politics.
Mark my words, all you see, hear and read is all properganda.
The latest nonsense is a documentary with Richard Madly about how hard done by landlords are!
Ok you might get the odd one whose greed got the better of him, but I don't know a poor Landlord.
Infact, the ones I do know make greed seem normal. Their houses are nothing short of flea pits and they are robbing people and the vunerable blind!

Originally posted by happinness

You should see the stuff the rich give to charity! Shoes and boots worth hundreds of pounds, never been worn.
Expensive coats, never been worn! It is truly disgusting! One item could feed a family for a month in monetary terms.

What? You really have a problem with rich people giving good quality stuff to charity? And if it hasn't been worn, surely giving it to charity is a responsible action?

And as to Labour giving people hope? I said in 1997 when they won the election and everyone was celebrating, "look at the economy in 10 years time and see if you are celebrating then". Why did i say that? Because it was totally obvious what Labour's promises meant for the economic health of the country. Money to pay for things doesn't magically appear. People didn't want to hear that back then though so i generally got told to shut up a lot. Funny how when i bring it up these days with those same people (including some lifelong Labour supporters) they shuffle and smile nervously instead of actually talking about it.

Offered hope - best laugh i have had today!

Originally posted by happinness
That wasn't a rant, I am mearly trying to reveal the facts from a grass root level! lol
Don't start me off on thatcher.
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!
You can guffer and s'n-word' like they all do but one thing I know for certain there is more going on than meets the eye and its got
Nothing to do with your or my politics.

What glass house? I'm not the ones throwing the stones here, and you don't know at what 'level' I'm at. Lots of people are homeless - do you think lots of people weren't homeless under labour? Do you not think the boom and bust of the labour years and their shockingly bad financial approach has actually directly led to more homeless people?

Sorry, but as other posters have said, you just seem to want to complain about people who are moderately better off than yourself - even when they are donating to charity!

I'm not knocking anybody. Sorry if it reads like that, It is all about the redistribution of wealth!
It saddens me to see such greed and ignorence. If you don't care that's fine, but at least admit it.
I know people who haven't got two pennies to rub together, but still vote tory! I don't care anymore. I used to.
But simarly when the bubble bursts, they don't want to come running to me!
As one toff put it once ' the Welsh are bred to mine coal, like a retriever is bred to retrieve and the
Working class are bred to look after people like me!'
You pay your money and take your choice, if you have any money that is?
I went to Aldis the other day. All their food is crap. It tastes strange too. I only wanted some cat food.
All I saw was gaunt haunted shoppers, terribly under nurished. The children looked grey and souless. I wanted to cry.
Maybe it is me, perhaps I am wrong. Its all their fault they are poor and they have to suffer!
There is no excuse anymore. No excuse whatsoever!!

Originally posted by happinness
I'm not knocking anybody. Sorry if it reads like that, It is all about the redistribution of wealth!
It saddens me to see such greed and ignorence. If you don't care that's fine, but at least admit it.
I know people who haven't got two pennies to rub together, but still vote tory! I don't care anymore. I used to.
But simarly when the bubble bursts, they don't want to come running to me!
As one toff put it once ' the Welsh are bred to mine coal, like a retriever is bred to retrieve and the
Working class are bred to look after people like me!'
You pay your money and take your choice, if you have any money that is?
I went to Aldis the other day. All their food is crap. It tastes strange too. I only wanted some cat food.
All I saw was gaunt haunted shoppers, terribly under nurished. The children looked grey and souless. I wanted to cry.
Maybe it is me, perhaps I am wrong. Its all their fault they are poor and they have to suffer!
There is no excuse anymore. No excuse whatsoever!!

I don't understand what you are saying. Where is the greed and ignorance? I think you assume it to a large extent, and the bubble is bursting - labour had the first stab with the pin (selling off gold reserves for a fraction of current price, leaving a huge hole in the pension funds), so I don't understand why you are blaming it on a conservative government that has been in two years but you seem to think labour did no wrong.

That quote you use from a 'toff' - I can only find one other reference to it, and that's from you in another ATS thread where you say a Lord said it. Now, can you say which Lord - they come from all political sides you know.

It's funny you then say people look undernourished, grey and soulless. I don't shop at Aldi that often as it's not that local to me, but I don't recall any single body type, the thin to the obese - the same as with any mix in the UK. As for looking grey, it's hardly sun tan weather. If people look 'soulless' then I'm not sure what you think it has to do with the government - maybe they failed their x factor audition and now think the world owes them a living (joke, well almost anyway).

Aldi do a very nice fish pie though, not sure why you have suddenly become so snobbish?

"Maybe it is me, perhaps I am wrong. Its all their fault they are poor and they have to suffer! " Who says that? Why is that an reflection on the UK or the current government? When were there not people on lower/no wage?

"There is no excuse anymore. No excuse whatsoever!! " No excuse for what? How much would you like me to subsidise people assuming I have liquid capital (big assumption) - what is it you are actually trying to say?

I am far from a snob! lol I just don't understand the inequality in this country!
The meanspirited government who are putting up a poor show they can do better than this.
I wish I had the time to explain and pull up all the evidence to show that this ship is sinking.
We. Had the lowest deversit in europe. How could it have gone so terribly wrong?

Originally posted by happinness
I am far from a snob! lol I just don't understand the inequality in this country!
The meanspirited government who are putting up a poor show they can do better than this.
I wish I had the time to explain and pull up all the evidence to show that this ship is sinking.
We. Had the lowest deversit in europe. How could it have gone so terribly wrong?

You mean lowest deficit? When was that and what was actually supporting it? I'm not sure when we held that particular honour and if we did, and it was built on an illusion, then it meant nothing. Please don't pull up any evidence, I just know you will find it on very opinionated web sites that may support your argument but actually use facts and figures that are convenient, while ignoring others.

Still waiting for more substantiation on that quote though.

I'm not digging personally at you, if you are indeed working with the homeless then I know you are working with people in real hard times and I've got every sympathy where sympathy is appropriate. But that doesn't mean the fault for all of it lies at the door of any government of any persuasion and your attempts to blame it all on the current one just don't hold up - sorry.

I think based upon peoples mathematics as demonstrated in the OP and the subsequent kneejerking reactions, I'm going out now to book a market stall selling £10 notes for a price of £20...

When are people going to stop reading and believing and start using the grey matter between their ears...

UK TAX...

You have a personal allowance of £8100 this is tax free.... If you only ever earned £8100 in a year you would not pay a penny in tax.

After your allowance up to £34,370 it's 20% tax.

National insurance is currently at a rate of 12% Though this depends on what you are earning but for the vast majority of people this is what it is.

So given that you earn £20,000 and have two children you should get a child tax credit and a child benefit element back from the government. the child benefit would be just over £110 per month and the child tax credit would be somewhere around the £300 per month mark. that's an additional net income of £410 per month.... that's almost £5000 per year net.

So how much tax have you really paid???

National insurance = £2115
Income Tax = £2380

Total = £4495

So you have in real terms paid ZERO tax!!!!!

Makes sense???

Korg.

reply to post by Korg Trinity


Well explained, however i thought the allowance was now around £9400 before any tax is paid?

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Korg Trinity

 

Well explained, however i thought the allowance was now around £9400 before any tax is paid?

Nope, though the personal allowance does go up to £9200 for tax year 2013-14.

This is the main reason the deficit is widening. There is more going out than coming in, in terms of taxation.

My personal view is that we should scrap benefit all together an levy a small total tax percentile of say 5% of everything you earn.

This would make far more sense than the current system.

Many thanks,

Korg.