Could Atheism be technically considered a religion?

If there is no God, then all that exists is time and chance acting on matter. If this is true then the difference between your thoughts and mine correspond to the difference between shaking up a bottle of Mountain Dew and a bottle of Dr. Pepper. You simply fizz atheistically and I fizz theistically. This means that you do not hold to atheism because it is true , but rather because of a series of chemical reactions… … Morality, tragedy, and sorrow are equally evanescent. They are all empty sensations created by the chemical reactions of the brain, in turn created by too much pizza the night before. If there is no God, then all abstractions are chemical epiphenomena, like swamp gas over fetid water. This means that we have no reason for assigning truth and falsity to the chemical fizz we call reasoning or right and wrong to the irrational reaction we call morality. If no God, mankind is a set of bi-pedal carbon units of mostly water. And nothing else.
Douglas Wilson

The atheist can appeal to nothing absolute, nothing objectively true for all people, it is just mere opinion enforced by might. The Christian appeals to a standard outside himself/herself in which truth and qualitative values can be made sense of.
Peter Huff

The greatest act of faith takes place when a man finally decides that he is not God.
Johann Wolfgang Goethe

For when we cease to worship God, we do not worship nothing, we worship anything.
G. K. Chesterton

Someone once said that if you sat a million monkeys at a million typewriters for a million years, one of them would eventually type out all of Hamlet by chance. But when we find the text of Hamlet, we don't wonder whether it came from chance and monkeys. Why then does the atheist use that incredibly improbable explanation for the universe? Clearly, because it is his only chance of remaining an atheist. At this point we need a psychological explanation of the atheist rather than a logical explanation of the universe.
Peter Kreeft

No one talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God.
Heywood Broun

Still, even the most admirable of atheists is nothing more than a moral parasite, living his life based on borrowed ethics. This is why, when pressed, the atheist will often attempt to hide his lack of conviction in his own beliefs behind some poorly formulated utilitarianism, or argue that he acts out of altruistic self-interest. But this is only post-facto rationalization, not reason or rational behavior.
Vox Day

Atheism is a crutch for those who cannot bear the reality of God.
Tom Stoppard

God exist whether or not men may choose to believe in Him. The reason why many people do not believe in God is not so much that it is intellectually impossible to believe in God, but because belief in God forces that thoughtful person to face the fact that he is accountable to such a God.
Robert A. Laidlaw


If God were small enough to be understood, He would not be big enough to be worshiped.
Evelyn Underhill



I was at this time of living, like so many Atheists or Anti-theists, in a whirl of contradictions. I maintained that God did not exist. I was also very angry with God for not existing. I was equally angry with Him for creating a world.
C.S. Lewis


A heathen philosopher once asked a Christian, 'Where is God'? The Christian answered, 'Let me first ask you, Where is He not?'
Aaron Arrowsmith


A great many of those who 'debunk' traditional...values have in the background values of their own which they believe to be immune from the debunking process.
C.S. Lewis


Science can tell us how to do many things, but it can not tell us what ought to be done.
Author Unknown


My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such a violent reaction against it?... Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if i did that, then my argument against God collapsed too--for the argument depended on saying the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies. Thus, in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist - in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless - I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality - namely my idea of justice - was full of sense. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never have known it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.
C.S. Lewis

A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell.
C.S. Lewis

The atheist can't find God for the same reason that a thief can't find a policeman.
Author Unknown

Absent an absolute moral authority independent of fallible humans, the only meaning “wrong” could have (pertaining to conduct) would be “in opposition to X,” or “falling short of X’s standards,” which are only persuasive to those who have already accepted X.
Calvin Freiburger

The theory that thought is merely a movement in the brain is, in my opinion, nonsense; for if so, that theory itself would be merely a movement, an event among atoms, which may have speed and direction but of which it would be meaningless to use the words 'true' or 'false'.
C.S. Lewis

The real attitude of sin in the heart towards God is that of being without God; it is pride, the worship of myself, that is the great atheistic fact in human life.
Oswald Chambers

Humanism or atheism is a wonderful philosophy of life as long as you are big, strong, and between the ages of eighteen and thirty-five. But watch out if you are in a lifeboat and there are others who are younger, bigger, or smarter.
William Murray


"One is always considered mad, when one discovers something that others cannot grasp."



If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents - the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else's. But if their thoughts - i.e., Materialism and Astronomy - are mere accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It's like expecting the accidental shape taken by the splash when you upset a milk-jug. It should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was upset.
C.S. Lewis

reply to post by scmoG


Why does God need to be worshiped? Why do we have to worship anything?

Why can't we be in awe of the universe without personalizing some guy from the Bible, who demands to be worshiped, and who also claims he created the universe? Why should we believe that?
Windword

c.s. lewis is such an interesting writer. i'll never forget the screwtape letters. first time i read them i thought, sheesh this guy has such a complex mind.

reply to post by scmoG


You say we should believe in God.

You say you're a Christian.

How about taking up the challenge presented earlier:

Do you believe in Thor? And if not, are you an atheist in a sense?

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by scmoG

 

You say we should believe in God.

You say you're a Christian.

How about taking up the challenge presented earlier:

Do you believe in Thor? And if not, are you an atheist in a sense?

too bad you didn't ask me that question. or well, maybe it was a good thing. lol my hands are getting sore from typing

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Dude, give it up already. All you do is ignore the actual topic, by coming with (in your mind) plausible topics, which have already been destroyed by the actual topic itself. Beating around the bush. That's all you atheist's ever do, when you're proven wrong.
Pride and nothing BUT. Go ahead with the insults, if you want. That's all that you have left and that in of itself, is nothing more than a mere crutch. A bandage, trying to "one up" yourself.

reply to post by windword


Are you not alive? Yes or no. Like the authors said, you don't have to worship anything, although you are only worshipping yourself. You aren't taking away anything from God. If that's what you want to do, then do it. *shrugs* However, how about actually speaking about the quotes that murdered atheism, rather than asking questions, hoping that people will overlook what has been already stated? I know it's hard for you all to do.

reply to post by scmoG


Like I said earlier in this thread, we need to agree on a definition of God before we can say if we believe or not. I can't believe in the God of the Bible. Is that your God? Does that make me an atheist in your eyes?

reply to post by scmoG

Dude, give it up already.

Giving up on trying to have a discussion with you. Wish granted.

That's all you atheist's ever do, when you're proven wrong.

For the 4th time. I am not an atheist. I will re-read what you wrote because I didn't read anything from you that came close to proving anything.

Go ahead with the insults, if you want.

It wasn't an insult it was a question. You getting so defensive is telling.

reply to post by scmoG


Have you ever wondered why god knows you so well?

Have you ever thought that the manifestation of god could be a personification of yourself?

It would explain why you take it so personal when others reject the idea of god because to you they are rejecting you.

If you accept that when people reject the idea of god all they are doing is realizing there is room for improvement in themselves and they want to evolve.

Either learns how to deal with rejection or just don’t take it personal.

If you are happy with yourself and mankind that is great but some of us think we can do better.

Really it’s not about you. So don’t take it so hard.
______________________________________________________
Why do I feel like I am breaking up with an old girlfriend?

I said I would re-read his posts and I meant it. So I am re-reading his/hers posts which are just copy and paste quotes. Which is great, I love quotes I also really like Lewis, and I have read The Screwtape Letters and Mere Christianity. (obviously don't side with him ultimately)

This quote made me really laugh

A heathen philosopher once asked a Christian, 'Where is God'? The Christian answered, 'Let me first ask you, Where is He not?'
Aaron Arrowsmith

A heathen philosopher? lol

Atheism is a crutch for those who cannot bear the reality of God.
Tom Stoppard

Or is religion a crutch for those who cannot bear the reality of there not being a God. Both have weight I feel.

No one talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God.
Heywood Broun

Does anyone really believe that? I don't.

Still, even the most admirable of atheists is nothing more than a moral parasite
Vox Day

Even THE MOST admirable atheist is nothing more than a moral parasite. The crazy thing is many religious people actually believe this. Believe they are not only more moral, but that morality belongs to them. How vile.

God exist whether or not men may choose to believe in Him.

'Him' Gotta love how manly God is. But it's true, if in fact God exists.

"One is always considered mad, when one discovers something that others cannot grasp."

And this can surely be turned around to the religious. Who think atheists are satanic and void of morality. Perhaps they simply cannot grasp.

Okay I am done. I know no one wants to read my commentary on all those quotes. I just wanted to see if I missed this alleged "proof" of me being wrong about everything.

Originally posted by StalkerSolent
See, I do believe that there is a real meaning to life (just so's we're clear) but I like to look at life from other perspectives. The world is full of people that don't do that, and I find it sad sometimes

So, my question is, if life is without meaning, where did morality spring from?

I'm a little shy of private conversations, I'm more comfortable being a bit of hit and run poster. But I think this is still relatively on-topic, as the claim that life has no meaning is often something associated with atheists, but is not neccessarily something they all would think true.
(if it turns out not to be on topic, then sure, I'll take the plunge into private messaging)

I have to backtrack a little and qualify my position (damn that always happens when I have to back up my assertions) - there is real meaning to life. That meaning is the process of life itself. I don't think we as humans are neccessary to that process (of life), but we do exist as part of it; therefore, while we exist, we have meaning.
But there's no plan we have to fulfill. Life is totally happy for us to continue existing, but if we happen to get wiped out through our own stupidity or just random circumstance, life will continue the process through other species.

Those that do say life has no meaning are (usually) just reacting against the traditional meanings given (ones of super-natural origin, man's destiny as center of creation, etc) as not sufficient, and they reject them as grounds for meaning.

Evolution does provide meaning, although the religious (but not just them) don't agree because it takes away our established myths about ourselves.
Given the huge amount of myths about ourselves out there, we obviously have huge need to create meaning for our existence, specificallly one we can relate to. Some find the impersonal processes of the universe too hard to relate to, which is why humanising the universe through religion makes things much easier to process.

I think the idea that morality only comes with knowing that there is a purpose to your life isn't really true if you think carefully about it, it's just been associated with it for a long time.
We are social beings, we have self-consciousness, and we have things we like and things we don't that we can all pretty much agree on - survival, shelter, security, eating, comfort, love, children, health, entertainment and community are all good things universally to all, and things which threaten those are bad.*

We construct our morality around protecting those things, and stories are a great way to teach and pass on our values. Religion is a story that condenses all this into a readily transmittable package, generation to generation.
It uses story logic, which is big on meaningfulness, and is easy to remember because we can relate to it.
Science, logic, and evoution do provide meaning for those who are fine with it - it is a model that has logic to it, just not the story logic of religion.

In short, morality comes from our urge to provide the best circumstances for our success as a species.

Sorry for the long-windedness, it's a handicap I struggle with. I did delete lots of even more rambly sentences.
Not sure if I answered your quesion, but at least that's where I''m coming from for now, until new information comes to light.

*It's with reference to this that I would agree life has meaning, but I disagree there is any grand-plan underway other than our own well-being while we happen to exist; and if that well-being can coincide with the well-being of every other life-form, so much the better.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by scmoG

 

Why does God need to be worshiped? Why do we have to worship anything?

Why can't we be in awe of the universe without personalizing some guy from the Bible, who demands to be worshiped, and who also claims he created the universe? Why should we believe that?
Windword

edit on 5-12-2012 by windword because: (no reason given)

worship means to work for.
to work for someone, you usually have a relationship of some kind.
so in addition to working for whomever, you're also conversing with them from time to time. in some religions, this is called prayer. whether you're only talking to a boss, a king, a spouse, yourself, the universe, the dearly departed or a "super" natural being, is irrelevant in the context of "worshipping". never met anyone that worships themselves? lol

the example jesus gave for worship, was a loving relationship like a marriage. in fact, marriage is the template for it. in a marriage, you care about one another, work towards each other's well being, work on establishing a healthy relationship and try to put each other first.

i suspect these guidelines are there because they are the most effective, positive approach for the human psyche. et.al you learn better when the person teaching you is someone who you feel cares about you, is concerned for your future and doesn't want to see you fail at anything positive you put your mind to (within the moral and spiritual framework of the belief system, of course). this is ideally the kind of relationship you have with your spouse or are working on having with your spouse. and can be expanded to include the community you live in, the church you attend if any, where you work, etc.

anyway, worship is really the same thing as working for and establishing a relationship with, someone who is employing you in some fashion, either as a co-equal (marriage suggests co-equal) or as a teacher-student, or as an employee-boss, etc. jesus' example was more of the co-equal variety but can also be the teacher-student.

it can be argued that we're talking to our own consciences/sub-consciences and teaching ourselves and that it's self worship as a result, but from purely a psychological view, it would not seem that way to the person employing this approach as they are intentionally trying to reach out to something bigger than themselves, a higher power. this method is very successful in 12 step programs. if you need not to take another drink and playing hopscotch will keep you from doing that, that's your higher power over your body's demand for booze. same example applies in religions and various self improvement approaches.

i have a theory (oh no not another theory), that our junk dna records our entire lives, every thought, every action, how many respirations, etc, over the course our lifetimes and that it is quantumly entangled with our perfected bodies already existing in the hereafter. this junk dna would be called the book of life, in the bible. then we review the progress we made or didn't make, after we pass and sit in judgement of our behavior as we are witnesses against ourselves at that point. dunno if i'm entirely right on that, but it kinda makes sense to me.

reply to post by delusion


I starred your post because I thought it was great overall.

However I disagree with this

We construct our morality around protecting those things, and stories are a great way to teach and pass on our values. Religion is a story that condenses all this into a readily transmittable package, generation to generation.

Religion stories, namely the Abrahamic religions, transmit packages that are more immoral than moral!

The amount of death and murder encouraged based on nothing but disagreement is absurd! Stoning your wife on your wedding bed if you find out she's not a virgin!? Beating your kids if they talk back!? Beating your slave to the point of near death so long as he lives (implying also slavery is condoned). Killing someone if they work on the wrong day?? Opposing anyone that is against your religion violently! Etc etc etc.

Sure there are great moral values in the Bible. It's true I feel that most are from Christ. Still, it's a small chapter in a large book...

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


ever read any of sitchin's work?

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by delusion

 

I starred your post because I thought it was great overall.

However I disagree with this

We construct our morality around protecting those things, and stories are a great way to teach and pass on our values. Religion is a story that condenses all this into a readily transmittable package, generation to generation.

Religion stories, namely the Abrahamic religions, transmit packages that are more immoral than moral!

The amount of death and murder encouraged based on nothing but disagreement is absurd! Stoning your wife on your wedding bed if you find out she's not a virgin!? Beating your kids if they talk back!? Beating your slave to the point of near death so long as he lives (implying also slavery is condoned). Killing someone if they work on the wrong day?? Opposing anyone that is against your religion violently! Etc etc etc.

Sure there are great moral values in the Bible. It's true I feel that most are from Christ. Still, it's a small chapter in a large book..

definitely different times.

Technically you can't call atheism a religion, as that would go against the whole purpose of inventing the English language.
All that you can say is that both sides can have similar dogmas. No one really knowing the real truth and resorting to picking a side that best suits their own life experiences and intended world view.

I tend to even doubt if truth even exists period!
You can question anything in life, everything seems to be subjective, true objectivity is near impossible as we only are ever able to experience reality through the limits and perceptions of a human mind.

The universe is so vast and possibly even infinite, so imagine for 1 second if our human perception on a scale of 1- 1000 is at 3, what would a sentient being with 723 consciousness act like?

Just like an ant can't comprehend nuclear physics you know?

reply to post by RoguePenguinScotland

Just like an ant can't comprehend nuclear physics you know?

and are we sure they can't? lol
i witnessed two of my dogs having a silent conversation with each other one day. it was a bit of a shock. couldn't hear them but may as well have, since you could just tell they were having a friendly chat. i think the critters are holding out on us. hubby thinks they're aliens lol (he's half joking)

reply to post by undo

ever read any of sitchin's work?

I have yes. Two books so far. I thought you might be drawing some of your knowledge from it. I am on the fence myself. Not strongly against like many here.