I'm not sure how to put this in words, but I'll try. I believe at some point secret societies, not just Freemasons, did have a connection with The Great Architect, and they did this through math. Math is the universal language, this anyone can recognize. Furthermore, it is obvious that many occult societies had taken it upon themsleves to decipher the language of life through mathematics. This has been happening since man achieved consciousness of his world. The core numbers in life are Pi and Phi, they are found everywhere from the musical scale to the harmony of galaxies, and even in our DNA. What does this mean? Are we all just mathematical represenations? Wouldn't that mean each of us is a sequence of numbers with a certain purpose towards achieving an end. This would mean life is always in balance, and any "imbalance" is simply another mathematical force acting upon the current forces. I am not a professional, and I do not yet hold enough knowledge to prove any of this, but I believe the universe itself IS god, the Great Architect of all we have come to know. When we "invent" we are simply recalling knowledge inherited in each of our souls, mathematically imprinted in our DNA. Can this be what the Ancient Societies were protecting? If so, are there any remnants of these Ancient Secret Societies in the societies of today? Is there any society I can join to gain knowledge of these things? This is something I want to dedicate my life to, I have no purpose but to gain knowledge on the universe and its subsets, and their subsets, unto infinity. Even realizing that I myself am a universe unto myself brings me great calmness. Do I need to achieve complete calmness to achieve the knowledge or visa versa? This is what I have to say, is there anyone who would like to speak on this?

[edit on 22-10-2004 by Decon]

You know, that made a lot of sense to me. Good thinking.

Originally posted by Decon
I'm not sure how to put this in words, but I'll try. I believe at some point secret societies, not just Freemasons, did have a connection with The Great Architect, and they did this through math. Math is the universal language, this anyone can recognize. Furthermore, it is obvious that many occult societies had taken it upon themsleves to decipher the language of life through mathematics. This has been happening since man achieved consciousness of his world. The core numbers in life are Pi and Phi, they are found everywhere from the musical scale to the harmony of galaxies, and even in our DNA. What does this mean? Are we all just mathematical represenations? Wouldn't that mean each of us is a sequence of numbers with a certain purpose towards achieving an end. This would mean life is always in balance, and any "imbalance" is simply another mathematical force acting upon the current forces. I am not a professional, and I do not yet hold enough knowledge to prove any of this, but I believe the universe itself IS god, the Great Architect of all we have come to know. When we "invent" we are simply recalling knowledge inherited in each of our souls, mathematically imprinted in our DNA. Can this be what the Ancient Societies were protecting? If so, are there any remnants of these Ancient Secret Societies in the societies of today? Is there any society I can join to gain knowledge of these things? This is something I want to dedicate my life to, I have no purpose but to gain knowledge on the universe and its subsets, and their subsets, unto infinity. Even realizing that I myself am a universe unto myself brings me great calmness. Do I need to achieve complete calmness to achieve the knowledge or visa versa? This is what I have to say, is there anyone who would like to speak on this?

[edit on 22-10-2004 by Decon]

Well, in our degrees, we talk about geometry, the first and noblest of sciences, and the basis upon which the superstructure of freemasonry is erected... by it, we may discover the power, wisdom and goodness of the great artificer...

So, its no secret to masons that math and geometry allows us to see the hand of g-d.

Do masons hold any of the secrets that the ancients held?

Freemasonry is said to have developed from the builders guilds, and so from that perspective supposed to have access to the "secrets" associated with the erection of buildings...

Those things aren't really secret any more, nor is our Fraternity. The only things that are "secret" in Freemasonry are the ceremonial parts and the signs of recognition. In York Right Fremasonry, for example, like that in Pennsylvania, USA, nothing that is written down is secret. Our ceremonial work is passed down through oral tradition.

There is one school of thought that modern Freemasonry is decended from the Knights Templar, who supposedly fled to Scotland after they were falsely indicted for heresy. Things like the aprons that Freemasons wear, the gloves that officers wear, etc. are said to be more indicative of Templar traditions than builders guilds... but nobody really knows. Also, traditions like religious tolerance, and helping Brothers in the Fraternity are supposed to be more indicative of Templar ideals than those of builders guilds... so draw your own conclusion. As a Blue Lodge Mason, a 32nd Degree Scotish Right Mason, and a Shriner,... my guess is as good as yours...

I don't think it's as simple as did they or did they not descend from the Templars. The interweaving webs seem to go beyond what people can grasp. Maybe some Freemasons descended from Templars, and through their blood line passed on the secrets of the Templars along the line. But one will only know in death, when one returns to the all encompassing Entity... but I also believe our conscious will not be aware of it for it will be emobodied in another form.

[edit on 23-10-2004 by Decon]

As Masons, we are encouraged to seek truth (light) wherever we find it.I can only speak for myself, but I have found in the study of mathematics a truth that convinces me that there is an order to the universe. and that maybe everything does actually happen for a reason. Sometimes this is a comforting anchor in a world that seems very cruel and unfair.

[edit on 10/25/2004 by tylerdjp]

[edit on 10/25/2004 by tylerdjp]

If nothing else, the golden proportion, Phi, occuring so often as it does, from bees knees to the human skeleton, to Nautalus shells, to flower petals shows an order to nature, and to my mind, a conscious plan, no matter how it was implemented.

it is my belief that the "secrets" that were held by many of these societies in
the past are no longer secrets and some are almost common knowledge.
i believe that many of the secrets were centered on the Arts and Sciences
which through out much of history were considered Black Arts. Being so regarded the study and practice would need to be secret and guarded to preclude an invitation to an inquisition.

When we "invent" we are simply recalling knowledge inherited in each of our souls, mathematically imprinted in our DNA.

I wish I had known this when i sat my exams. I tried to learn it?

However if your saying there is an inherent need to find a conclusion, no matter if it is mathematics or not, I would agree. To search , to seek , to solve.

To go where no man has gone before. well you get my point.

Yes I think that is in our make up. Humans can not help it , their brain will not allow loose ends. The puzzle must be solved. It must make sense. We find that where we can not make sense of something, the system , the bain just like our computers freezes up and stops working.

Originally posted by Decon
I'm not sure how to put this in words, but I'll try. I believe at some point secret societies, not just Freemasons, did have a connection with The Great Architect, and they did this through math. Math is the universal language, this anyone can recognize. Furthermore, it is obvious that many occult societies had taken it upon themsleves to decipher the language of life through mathematics. This has been happening since man achieved consciousness of his world. The core numbers in life are Pi and Phi, they are found everywhere from the musical scale to the harmony of galaxies, and even in our DNA. What does this mean? Are we all just mathematical represenations? Wouldn't that mean each of us is a sequence of numbers with a certain purpose towards achieving an end. This would mean life is always in balance, and any "imbalance" is simply another mathematical force acting upon the current forces. I am not a professional, and I do not yet hold enough knowledge to prove any of this, but I believe the universe itself IS god, the Great Architect of all we have come to know. When we "invent" we are simply recalling knowledge inherited in each of our souls, mathematically imprinted in our DNA. Can this be what the Ancient Societies were protecting? If so, are there any remnants of these Ancient Secret Societies in the societies of today? Is there any society I can join to gain knowledge of these things? This is something I want to dedicate my life to, I have no purpose but to gain knowledge on the universe and its subsets, and their subsets, unto infinity. Even realizing that I myself am a universe unto myself brings me great calmness. Do I need to achieve complete calmness to achieve the knowledge or visa versa? This is what I have to say, is there anyone who would like to speak on this?

[edit on 22-10-2004 by Decon]

As a student of the mysteries and a mathematician, I was pleasantly intrigued by your question. What a wonderful way for me to get in on the fun here!

What is of utmost importance when looking at mathematics as a key to the mysteries is that the whole of mathematics has its origin in empiricism. That is to say, mathematics is useful in describing nature because it derived from observations about nature.

It is always best to remember that the axioms of geometry are derived from practical observations made over tens of thousands of years as humanity sought to insure its own survival. Useful information about the world was recalled from generation to generation and eventually written down for the sake of posterity. Ultimately these fragments of wisdom were grouped according to similarities in their natures and these similiarities gave rise to the undefined terms and basic axioms of plane geometry.

The rules of geometry, algebra, set-theory, topology, etc. can now be seen to be secondary and even tertiary observations derived from empirical observations of nature itself.

Now, while man has evolved over the generations in many ways, we are not so far removed from our nomadic ancestors who followed the herds, ate berries, and made their homes in caves. Like our ancient ancestors we have the same five senses with which to apprehend the world at large (although Kevin Warwick has experienced ultra-sonic hearing by way of cybernetic implants-- lucky sod!)

In the end, this all adds up to one very boring, very sad reality: "Mathematical constants are not myserioues entities at all."
Pi exists as a constant because we, like our ancient ancestors, look at the moon, see a circle, and based on our visual perception of that circle, can represent the ratio of the circumference with respect to the diameter using a convenient nomenclature like, say, numerals. The same with Phi, e, etc.

But imagine an inteligent alien race which doesn't see light in the visible spectrum. Imagine that they see beyond violet and have three "eye-equivalent" organs spaced AROUND their bodies so that they can see everything going on around them (in the UV and up range) at the same time! Their perception of the material world would be RADICALLY different from our own; their "brain-equivalent" organs would process sensory input in a completely different fashion. Wouldn't it stand to reason that, based on their alternate perception of the cosmos, they would develop different sets of practical observations that would ultimately yield different mathematical systems-- perhaps systems we might not even recognize as mathematics?

When one considers Godel's "Incompleteness Theorem" (which held that given any system of axioms sufficient to accomplish arithmetic there will always be theorems within the system which the system's axioms won't be able to prove either true or false) and the annoying feeling of helplessness it engenders, the idea of an alien system of reasoning equivalent to what we call mathematics-- a system that could hold possible work-arounds for Godel's theorem, the apparent random order of prime numbers in the set of natural numbers, etc.-- becomes tantalizing.

OK. I've rambled. Sorry if I was vague.