Tracking Point - Guided rifle system allows precision shots to 1,200 yards

reply to post by rickymouse

You asked for it.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


I'll bite. Deer scent. Camo. Deer blinds. I would love to go out in a loin cloth and a sharp stick to hunt food but can't. I have to get a permit first. I'd rather hunt havalina with a bow.

Why do we even hunt? A short drive and I can buy venison or buffalo or any other big game raised on a farm. Not to worry. I am sure the scope is out of the budget of most hunters.

If anything your "craft" has been denounced. It happens. There used to be buggy whip master craftsmen. They moved on. It's not a bad thing. You just have to market your craft different. "Hand made" possibly. I feel your disgustingness. I'm not a young-en saying my video game skills are better, I am a human saying my fellow humans are building better tech.

p.s I don't even have an xbox.

I understand what you're getting across. But any shooter worth his/her salt is going to practice, practice, practice, and become proficient in the art of marksmanship before relying entirely on a product like this. Its like the US Military's Blue Force Tracker and GPS systems. We use them, but we all know how to read a map, use a compass and protractor, and orient ourselves using these techniques.

I would use this product for sure. Especially for aerial gunnery. It is not an easy thing to do to shoot from a UH60. Trust me. A tool like this would be a huge benefit.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Luddite lots.

It has personally affected me and my ability to earn a living.

Well the hope was that it wouldn't affect your ability to think straight and realize that the environment in which we live is inherently dynamic and not all changes that are happening in it will be beneficial to everyone.

I should just say "great" and throw away years of training? I'm not against technology or science only the perpetual misapplication of it.

Based on the above paragraph, I can't help but think that you have a pretty preconceived notion of technology in general, such as that it brings ruin to your life. I concede that I find it impossible to argue with you.

We aren't ethical enough as a species to allow the free proliferation of technology to those who can afford it.

What?

reply to post by staple


I'm glad to hear you say that. Bowhunting is more my style (self bow) no compounds for me. Sorry, your response made me think of some kid who lives in virtual reality,
As for my craft you could compare it to being a quarterback who learns how to throw a ball, suddenly some dude shows up with a bionic arm. Oh, he's still throwing the ball with "his" arm. That's fair, right? I mean if you can afford the arm. Machine assisted tools still don't help anyone create new or beautiful patterns or artwork though, thank God. Yet they advertise what they do as "hand engraving" but it doesn't require the touch or muscle memory that traditional hand tools do. It can still piss one off to see someone do something with a machine in 1 hour that took you 6 months to learn. I'm not hurting for work, I can get all I want. I just bemoan the change.

Originally posted by projectvxn
But any shooter worth his/her salt is going to practice, practice, practice, and become proficient in the art of marksmanship before relying entirely on a product like this.

With all due respect, Sir, this point is somewhat negotiable. Astronavigation classes were phased out in USAF some time in the 90s, if I remember correctly. Needless to say, it was critically important in the previous era.

I started writing software at an extremely young age, and back then we had to code in assembly. While I still think that it's an enormously useful training tool and quite crucial for developing a general expertise in the field of computing, younger generations start somewhere around Java. It's not ideal but in the end it kind of works.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Technology is available only to those who can afford it.
As the mechanical looms replaced the english mill workers the efficiency and productivity of the mills increased yet required fewer workers. Machines replace human labor leaving a greater share of the profits increasingly to the owners. The middle class is dying due to outsourcing and mechanization.
People can't find jobs, especially decent paying ones.
That is a problem.
This will only grow exponentially and none of us can adapt to all the changes being thrust upon us, unless of course one has money enough to be part of the ownership class.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


If TSHTF, I will be grateful for this technology because even though I am a very good shot, I have children and perhaps elderly family members to worry about, just in case I'm not there should a threatening situation occur.

reply to post by pheonix358
I thought that is what drones did already


This system is just the next gen of weaponry the next step,... Xbox combat you sit at home and be on the battle filed , no one dies but the war goes on, is this not the way it should be, only the bad guy dies and your safe and sound.
For the hunter this would be perfect one shot one kill. no wounded dear running off for the hunter to get lost tracking them game down
To me this is the way things are now no more skill training, just push a button flip a switch or button and your the next pro the Xbox gen should be so lucky to have the skills to use a thumb

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Technology is available only to those who can afford it.

I breath technology. I wrote functional software in assembly language when I was 14. That particular skill set is all but worthless now, but I always understood I need to adapt. Your claim is false. By its very nature, technology makes itself available (aided by capitalism, to be sure) to most anybody. People of very modest means are capable of using Wikipedia on their smartphones and tablets, which are now a dime a dozen, something we could never imagine just 10 years ago. A tank of gas can run $60 and an entry level tablet is about the same. GPS, Google maps, all sorts of search engines and what not are available to most anybody. Of course there is technology outside of web services and cloud computing, but first, I doubt that this is what you had in mind, and second, it still is related to the new ecosystem.

As the mechanical looms replaced the english mill workers the efficiency and productivity of the mills increased yet required fewer workers. Machines replace human labor leaving a greater share of the profits increasingly to the owners. The middle class is dying due to outsourcing and mechanization.

I'm not against hard line protectioninst measures in the US policy. I'm very sure they would work. It's a matter of policy, not some sort of abuse of technology.

This will only grow exponentially and none of us can adapt to all the changes being thrust upon us, unless of course one has money enough to be part of the ownership class.

Did you really have an expectation that your life would be predictable and easy?

Wake up and smell the coffee. I hate outsourcing, by the way, on many levels. It's not all related to technology. They sell Chinese-grown garlic in one of the stores here. Garlic is low tech. Please meditate on this.

You'd better start complaining about drones and robotic fighters then. While you are at it request that governments stop using satellite surveillance. I actually see a big benefit to fighting wars by proxy using mechanical devices. Maybe we could reduce the number of fatalities. Once only one country can mass produce drones, the other has to surrender.

Originally posted by seeker1963
reply to post by Asktheanimals

 

Makes me wonder if those who had the greatest swords available to man said the same thing when they came across a force using bows and arrows or bullets.......

Kinda shows how the struggle for power and domination has continued and the idea of being civilized humans is nothing more than a myth. With all of the gun control garbage being thrown around it just looks like more and better killing machines are being built for those who are in control.

edit on 1-12-2012 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-12-2012 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)

When the crossbow was invented it cause horror and consternation among the military population. Its accuracy was greater and velocity as well. An heavily armored knight could be killed by a virtually untrained peasant capable of pointing and shooting. Whereas before it took many yrs of training with a longbow to achieve great accuracy. This is simply history repeating itself, different program same channel.

reply to post by buddhasystem


That's great for the airforce since they operate in the air and technology rules airspace. However I'm in the army and while we have our GPS technology we still have to hone the tried and true methods of land nav.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Buddhasystem,

I suppose the argument I'm making is that while things like microwaves, computers, cell phones, etc, are a great convenience and most of us enjoy the benefits of them my concern is how government uses/abuses technology.

We have cameras everywhere, they listen and record every phone conversation, intercept and collect every email and electronic communication, collate and process that information through algorithms that tell them whether or not you would be a domestic enemy in times of mass revolt.

They're planning on having 30.000 drones in the skies over the US within 3 years - no doubt some will have this new rifle sighting system installed so some kid in a trailer can pop you from a mile up the sky when ordered to do so.

This is just the technology that we know they have. God knows what DARPA is hiding. It never ends and the problem is that new technologies make it easier to spy on us, to control us and to eliminate us. That is what I worry about - the ending of our rights guaranteed under the Constitution. They're gone in reality thanks to technological developments anytime they choose to do so.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Buddhasystem,

I suppose the argument I'm making is that while things like microwaves, computers, cell phones, etc, are a great convenience and most of us enjoy the benefits of them my concern is how government uses/abuses technology.

I frankly see no connection between this, and the original post, which was pretty much about the development of a computer-aided precision firearm. It's the duty of the government to look to more efficient and lethal weapons to equip our army with, I can hardly see how anyone can think it's a bad idea. On the other hand, abuse of technology was not declared as the topic of this thread. So sadly, we see "topic creep" which doesn't help ATS.

They're planning on having 30.000 drones in the skies over the US within 3 years - no doubt some will have this new rifle sighting system installed so some kid in a trailer can pop you from a mile up the sky when ordered to do so.

The issue of drones does exist and lots of legal issues will appear and hopefully be resolved in a reasonable manner. But frankly, if the government wanted to "pop you" for whatever reason, they wouldn't even need drones or anything like that.

God knows what DARPA is hiding. It never ends and the problem is that new technologies make it easier to spy on us, to control us and to eliminate us. That is what I worry about - the ending of our rights guaranteed under the Constitution. They're gone in reality thanks to technological developments anytime they choose to do so.

I call paranoia on that. Again, nothing to do with the rifle which I thought was the topic here. When you pulled "elimination" card here, that's done it. Sadly, this page goes to the pile of nonsense that already contains HAARP, chemtrails and Montauk experiment.

I've had some more time to think on this and you know? It's still a bad idea.

Another thought had occurred to me though. This isn't a hard thing to do and I'm actually surprised it hasn't been done already. The OICWS was supposed to have a targeting system capable of putting the dot in the scope where you needed the crosshair to be for a grenade launch to an accurate distance. The system had you lase the wall, doorway or debris closest to your target then set fusing for distance and the computer figured angle and distance for precisely where to hold the rifle. Now that's how it read in a manual and it's how a sim I toyed with at one point depicted it.

It made the act of putting a grenade on target something a 10yr old could do with almost no training at all. Nintendo and the X-Box trained them years before on such simple things as lining up the electronic boxes before pulling the trigger.

It's nice to say that this is a great thing for our troops and that automated warfare will save lives. I suppose it will..at least for awhile. When the enemy gets the same tech though, after we've solved the development problems stopping them up to this point, then eventually it'll be our people getting sniped in the head at 1,200 yards by what amounts to a computerized rifle a child could operate. Some inventions don't need invented just because we 'can'., IMO. Just my two cents.....

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
It's nice to say that this is a great thing for our troops and that automated warfare will save lives. I suppose it will..at least for awhile. When the enemy gets the same tech though, after we've solved the development problems stopping them up to this point, then eventually it'll be our people getting sniped in the head at 1,200 yards by what amounts to a computerized rifle a child could operate.

Some inventions don't need invented just because we 'can'., IMO. Just my two cents.....

You can easily "rewind" your argument a few thousand years ago to the Bronze age. Advent of steel must have been seen as deadly an unreal, so much more power coming with it. Then there was gunpowder and what not. So in reality, technology simply keeps marching forward.

And to play devil's advocate... In some years, when a sniper fires from 1,200 yards, the bullet will be deflected by a perfectly timed plasma pellet released from a highly instrumented ballistic helmet the soldiers will wear

reply to post by buddhasystem

That argument is made over and over on this and it's just not applicable. You're comparing apples with a side of beef for all the similarity there is.

Previous developments and advancements in how war was waged still required men be trained and learn a skill set. The better the skill set backed with courage, physical strength and whatever that special something is warrior types seem to have in them the more likely their side was to win. ....Or at least it happened that way often enough to be relevant.

This is taking the same things Patton was quoted as lamenting in the Push Button Warfare concept and making warfare entirely too easy, to the ultimate and insane conclusion. With the advent of this and it's adaptations onto other things, there won't even BE a skill set to speak of for the future soldiers. Killing will be computerized, as it's coming to be before our eyes.

This is something all together different than previous advancements because skill....that core element...is what this advances right beyond and removes from the equation. That's never good and it is a unique type of change, IMO.

Its swings and roundabouts. As previously mentioned this isn't anything new. As technology marches on so the do the skills needed to fight with it and win.

The same processing technology that takes the skill out of making the shot takes the difficulty out of pinpointing the shooters position with accuracy moments after the shot is fired.

The old skills just get replaced by new ones.

What is new is the rate at which the change occurs. If you aren't learning new things you are becoming more obsolete by the day. Training a skill and then practicing it through a career will one day soon sound like an absurd historical story.

reply to post by justwokeup
You make a point there about skills being replaced with new ones and I guess we're all just looking at this fundamentally differently. Perhaps that is the difference in thinking. You and others are seeing this on a rifle a MAN is still carrying. The first and only thing that came to my mind after seeing this....right after the fact Child Soldiers of Africa could now be world class cold bore snipers....is this:

In 2005, a Texas rancher began using a remote-controlled .22-caliber rifle and a camera set up on the Internet to provide hunters with access to game animals on his ranch, such as wild pigs, sheep, blackbuck antelope and Barbary. He charged fees for the remote hunting sessions, a DVD recording of the session, taxidermy and meat processing [source: BBC].

Source

So..... It's only half a step beyond the demo the thread started with to mating it with the technology in the picture there. Now the government seems positively obsessed lately with automation and taking the men out of the loop entirely. Never a comfy thought...but they are locked on the concept right now. How long do you figure it will be then, before they figure out that a half dozen men can control 5x's their number in guns by sitting behind screens with controls? I loved the advent of the scopes that could range and allow manual adjustment by caliber and type. Very nice....but computer solutions and control of aim points to that level of precision? err... Perhaps if the other lines of development weren't so strong at this very same time?