How bad is the economy..Let me tell you

why don't you open a business that helps your fellow man, and then you can profit with a clean conscience, not that selling meteorites is wrong.

most people are hurting in america, but where are your leaders. squabbling over "fiscal cliffs" until their taxpayer paid servant...i mean aide, tells them their dinner is ready.

and while they sit at their dinning tables ready to eat a taxpayer funded 3 course meal and drink their government paid $80 bottle of wine, you're wondering how much milk to put in your kraft mac and cheese.

and debating whether to put hotdogs in it because you need it for lunch tomorrow.

what do people need, help and a strength. those things don't cost a thing.

I won't argue with your but I also dabble in a business that caters to people with lots of disposable income. Not nothing illegal or conspiracy related. This business has never been more profitable. I won't disclose what it is but it is directly related to making your house look cool or your club having cool effects. So ya, a "I want to spend my money on decor" business. Some of the art we hang on the walls cost more than 10k, 20k, more than I report a year.... I'm just a grunt in the company but I know that business has never been better. I was there when it started. I can't prove it but the Royal Family of Saudi is a customer.
While I could never afford what our customers want, there are more orders now than ever.

If anything, I am seeing a more defined separation of "really rich" with the "really wealthy".

Originally posted by RocksFromSpace
Well here it is December 1st, 24 days till Christmas, and my business SUCKS !!

I'm a Meteorite-Jewelry-Gem dealer and have had the same web site business for the past 10 years, usually Christmas time is a huge boost to business with more then 300% increase in sales.. until 2 years ago.
My type of business is a good indicator on the health of the economy, why you ask, because what I sell is for people who have disposable incomes, extra money to spend on things they want but don't really need. Everyone has to Pay Rent, Buy Food, Buy Gas, Pay Utilities... but not everyone needs a Meteorite.
So 2 years ago business started to slow, 1 year ago business was Terrible, this year for the first time in the 10 years history of my business it's now costing me money to run it. November is suppose to be a big Christmas buying time with huge sales increases... this year total sales for the month of November have been only 6 sales for a total of $165... yes you read that right $165 for the month.So the domino effect has started, as my sales fall I stop buying inventory, as I stop buying inventory others will stop buying their inventory and so on and so forth.
Soon I may have to go the way of millions of other small businesses and have to close up shop, a sad thought but that's the reality of the state this country is in. So not only will I lose the business I built 10 years ago but the Government will lose my business taxes, which will only add to the downward spiral of this country.

So there's my story in a nut shell.. Merry Christmas to all !!

Hey you didn't build those meteorites!

Sorry couldn't help myself...pretty sad state of affairs.

I used to be in a business that was a real gauge on the economy in my area. I was a boot rep.
We handled work boots and fashion boots.
The business had 20% and 30% drops YoY since 2007.
I enjoyed it a lot but I left the company after years of continuous belt tightening and projections from the annual meeting of Mayors in this country that had no expectations of a turn around until some nebulous timeBEYOND 2021.

I recommend others look up the tables for their area because they are a wealth of info, if I can find the link I'll post it.

Originally posted by oper8zhin
Every small business that I know of right now is doing GREAT. Actually, all of them are doing better than ever right now to be honest. Maybe " Meteorite Jewelry" is something that is not desirable anymore. Was it EVER DESIRABLE at all anyways?

I seriously doubt that this type of business is a "good indicator on the health of the economy". More like a fad at one time that lost steam as it doesnt seem all that interesting at all to anyone other than the geeky Star Trek folks and nutty alien folks who think that this jewelery may be from their "home planet" or something delusional as that.

Even if I were SUPER WEALTHY and ran out of things to spend money on, I think I would honestly buy a left-handed screw-driver (totally useless) or a bucket of smelly armpits (for the laughter) before I bought some meteorite jewelery.

edit on 1-12-2012 by oper8zhin because: (no reason given)

and the close-minded person of the month award goes to this guy.

My daughter turned 18 today. She decided she wanted a full time job to start saving up tuition. She came back in less than four hours with a full time job in an embroidery shop at 10.50 /hr. Not bad for an unskilled 18 yr old in a couple hours search.

I have talked to several business owners who say the labor market is starting to tighten up. They are having trouble finding new employees to cover the business increase most are experiencing. I'm not sure where the doom and gloom is, but it's not here.

reply to post by kozmo


There is no real reason to apologize for being a downer if that is what your intentions are.

You entire perspective is based on negative speculation. Granted, the other side of the coin is positive speculation. But most of these markets are speculation. And in a world where our financial system is based on speculating markets dips and drops it is no surprise that an effort to flip the momentum will be accompanied by positive speculation.

They are painting a bright picture so that the momentum will change.

But when you say things like ObamaCare will bankrupt businesses it reveals your true intentions.

How can I tell? Because you reiterate the same Bush Apologist crap about Obama taking money away from doctors from medicare medicaid.

Goerge W Bush's signed the Deficit reduction Act of 2007 to try to offset the cost of some of his presidencies spending and literally pulled most of it from Medicare. His policy took away 40% of the top of reimbursement from Medicare to doctors, out patient centers, and hospitals.

You tell me how many businesses out there have a profit margin of 40%? His policy literally closed down thousands of businesses in the medical field.

But if you want to wear tunnel vision goggles and see what your brain loves to see, so be it.

But the truth is different than what your negativity characterizes.

AAC

i would think that trinkets like that are usually only purchased once by a person.

Its not like their rocks are gonna erode away and they need to buy new ones.

reply to post by nosacrificenofreedom


Banks cannot do that. It's called a balance sheet. You cannot have a balance sheet without both sides of the coin.

If those banks took any money from TARP they would be breaking federal laws by cooking the books with massive penalties. MASSIVE.

So please stop propagating falsehoods.

AAC

Originally posted by Jeremiah65
reply to post by kozmo

 

You are entitled to that opinion based on the info you are able to secure. I don't generally trust any of the "media releases" as all the info is cooked to generate a pre-determined response. Sometimes it is to create enthusiasm and other sources to generate despair...

I never mentioned the unemployment numbers thank you very much...everyone knows those numbers are screwed. But the 3 million jobs I mentioned are not retail sales...they are "skilled" jobs that are going unfilled..and as you say...have for years. People are going to trade and tech schools to learn how to do them. Whether there is aid for them or not is irrelevant. If you want to get somewhere, you have to invest in yourself. If you are waiting for a white knight to ride up and throw an education and a better standard of living at you...you are an idiot...not going to happen.

My main opinion is based on what I see around me. How people are living and shopping...

I see housing prices raising and on the markets shorter amounts of time. I see more work coming across my desk than I have in the last 4 years. People spent more on "Black Friday" than they have in years...another positive indicator.

I also believe, you get exactly what you expect to get. If you expect to fail at something...I can almost promise that you will.

I was trying to give the OP a positive view from where I sit. You can wallow in depression and misery if you wish, but I have lots of work and lots of prospects for more work and that makes me a happy person.

You are seeing what you want to see.

Yes the housing prices are going up in some markets, but it is again investors buying and they are bidding up the prices in the mistaken belief that the economy is just about to turn, and because they feel with the interest rates as low as they are that real estate is a good buy. The FED is buying a ton of MBS garbage to supposedly not inflate with their newly created money, and in the same process help keep the banks operating. Just because the money is being artificially pumped into housing does not mean there is any real recovery in demand.

As for retail, any supposed strength that has been reported is all anecdotal. None of the true numbers are known until the companies report their earnings. Recent history suggests black friday sales are always over estimated initially.

Overall employment as a percentage of the population has not improved at all, and the amount of welfare spending has gone way up.

The fundamental reason the economy sucks is there is too much debt outstanding at every level, individual, corporate, local government and federal government. The overall debt in the system has actually INCREASED since 2008, much of what has defaulted was bought by the FED and has been forced on the tax payers.

The economy is not going to recover as long as the excessive debt is out there, payments on that debt is destroying the ability to invest in starting and growing business. Low interest rates remove savers ability to grow their savings which is what stimulates the economy.

It's not wallowing in depression to look at the facts. They are not pretty. Nothing has been done to fix what happened in 2008. The banks are still incredibly unstable and can easily bring the economy down. They are leveraged at insane ratios of 30 to 1 and more. The derivatives outstanding have increased. The federal government is now 5 trillion more in debt and has the fed buying 75% of all the debt it issues because no one else wants it. That means soon there will be no more ability to run a deficit - when that happens POOF 15% of our GDP goes bye bye. None of the stimulus has done anything to spur the economy.

Economic power is based on what a population produces in goods and services and materials. The amount of currency that represents that production is meaningless, its overall value is based on that production and the ability for that production to be taxed.

This country is less productive today than it was five years ago, and there is no reason to think that is going to change anytime soon. Manufacturing can be done cheaper elsewhere, those jobs aren't coming back. Our education system is deteriorating, and other countries systems are improving. This means our share of future innovation is going to be less. Then there is the ever increasing dependence on government handouts, and our aging population.

I can't see a single reason to be optimistic.

Originally posted by proximo

I can't see a single reason to be optimistic.

There are jobs, there is increased income for most small businesses, and people are able to find jobs reasonably quickly. The vast majority of the people in this country couldn't give a care that the Large corporations are 'concerned about re-monitizing the marketplace'. Whatever that means. This country was built by mom and pop businesses who employed a few neighbors and we can live just fine in that world. Corporations will get tired of losing money while they cry in the spilt beer and then the market will have a miraculous overnight recovery.

I'm sorry to hear about the sluggish business. I appreciate you summing it up and making it applicable. It's important for all of us to get every bit of insight into how this world works so we can better determine what is truth.

Hope things pick up for you.. my wife loves rocks and #.. hopefully once things pick up for ME I'll check out your site and make a purchase

I do not know anyone who is unemployed at the moment. Even some guys who were let go in my company last year are currently employed.

I didn't see too many people out shopping but online shopping is kinda big now a days.

I work in a business that provides a service cell/net/video and transport. WE are doing fine despite my companies very bad decisions. Usually the first thing to go in a home is entertainment... a down grade in bandwidth and tv packages are expected. everything is about the same.

My sister quit her job that she had for many years and was able to pick up a similar job with more pay in about a week. Not sure why all the doom and gloom by many. There are many things you can say our government is doing wrong. I have nto seen it go wrong yet. maybe in the future but as of now nope i see nothing.

MY brother recently picked up extra work during his summer break from college to buy his gf an engagment ring. it set him back about 4-5k.... he is a college student who pays his own apartment, car and tuition... with his parttime job. He is always busy but i wonder what he will be able to do when he works full time.

at least in my city everything seems fine but i will not be naive and say that is the norm.

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
reply to post by nosacrificenofreedom

 

Banks cannot do that. It's called a balance sheet. You cannot have a balance sheet without both sides of the coin.

If those banks took any money from TARP they would be breaking federal laws by cooking the books with massive penalties. MASSIVE.

So please stop propagating falsehoods.

AAC

Here is one example of what he was talking about...

While the Senate Banking Committee last week spun its wheels trying to get JP Morgan chief Jamie Dimon to admit to something nefarious during testimony about his “London Whale” trading loss, executives at the big bank were concealing a far bigger scandal.

OK, it’s no secret that nation’s public pension funds are in big trouble, holding large “unfunded” liabilities owed to public workers once they retire. But most politicians (New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie is an exception) will tell you the problem is fairly containable. . . .

Not so, warns a “strictly confidential” report JP Morgan issued last year. . . . As the Morgan report notes, many of the real liabilities are located “off balance sheet,” hidden from the public’s eye, and lax accounting standards let cities and states minimize their enormity.

americanvisionnews.com...

"Banks, gov’s hiding massive $3.9 trillion pension liabilities"

Originally posted by randomname
why don't you open a business that helps your fellow man, and then you can profit with a clean conscience, not that selling meteorites is wrong.

I am here to hopefully help ANYONE that needs it.. NO I am NOT from the government!
When the economy "tanked" in 2008.. I begged my husband to leave the city.. (He was a restaurant manager and I was a 6 figure earning insurance agent)

Well the world has changed a bit..Hubby cant find a restaurant managers job ( he is now very happy in the trucking industry making MORE money and less hassle that management) and the Insurance company I worked for was very crooked and shut down business in Houston.. they have moved on to other towns scamming new insurance agents.. (I digress...)

I moved to the country and started a small hobby chicken farm and raise ONLY chickens...(it grew!) through DUMB luck and the RIGHT timing... we are able to meet our bills and keep afloat... So if you or a relative have the space, put in a chicken coop.. I will DONATE MY TIME to make sure you are a success..... (If mods will let me?) My website for free help to new businesses) is www.bluestar-ranch.com... Bless you all... I hope this helps SOMEONE.... Please contact me anyone.. Raising chickens is easy and I will donate my time to anyone free... I promise.

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
reply to post by nosacrificenofreedom

 

Banks cannot do that. It's called a balance sheet. You cannot have a balance sheet without both sides of the coin.

If those banks took any money from TARP they would be breaking federal laws by cooking the books with massive penalties. MASSIVE.

So please stop propagating falsehoods.

AAC

yes like the massive penalties they imposed on john corzine? i laugh at that because the only thing we have that's massive besides our debt, is the level of corruption in our banks and governments. massive penalties

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
reply to post by kozmo

 

There is no real reason to apologize for being a downer if that is what your intentions are.

You entire perspective is based on negative speculation. Granted, the other side of the coin is positive speculation. But most of these markets are speculation. And in a world where our financial system is based on speculating markets dips and drops it is no surprise that an effort to flip the momentum will be accompanied by positive speculation.

They are painting a bright picture so that the momentum will change.

But when you say things like ObamaCare will bankrupt businesses it reveals your true intentions.

How can I tell? Because you reiterate the same Bush Apologist crap about Obama taking money away from doctors from medicare medicaid.

Goerge W Bush's signed the Deficit reduction Act of 2007 to try to offset the cost of some of his presidencies spending and literally pulled most of it from Medicare. His policy took away 40% of the top of reimbursement from Medicare to doctors, out patient centers, and hospitals.

You tell me how many businesses out there have a profit margin of 40%? His policy literally closed down thousands of businesses in the medical field.

But if you want to wear tunnel vision goggles and see what your brain loves to see, so be it.

But the truth is different than what your negativity characterizes.

AAC

edit on 1-12-2012 by AnAbsoluteCreation because: (no reason given)

What are you going on about??? This thread has nothing to do with Bush - he finished ruining the economy 4 years ago! Now Obama is working overtime on destroying it.

Please allow me to address a few assumptive statements you've made. First, I have simply put forth facts - you know, REALITY stuff. I haven't time to dream of rainbows and unicorns when I live in a REAL world where REAL things are happening. So, the fact that you view my post as negative is very telling... especially when it is based on real economic events.

Second, it is fine to believe in "The Secret" and all of that other new-age pseudoscience where one believes that they can alter reality by putting out "good vibes" or whatever. I mean, go with it if it works for you. But trying to convince an entire nation that the piss their getting on their heads is only rain is flat out wrong! I'm interested in FACTS.

Now, for the "Bush apologist" crap... I will never Defend Bush! He'll go down in history as the second worst president - after Obama!

Finally, and it seems that there is a good deal of this abounding in these forums, you are suffering from a condition recognized as Cognitive Dissonance - a state where reality isn't in sync with your beliefs and your mind settles to restore balance by ignoring the facts and holding tighter to your beliefs.

The TRUTH is NOT different from my beliefs because my beliefs are based on FACTS - empirical, measurable and verifiable facts. Where are your facts? You lay a claim that I am wrong yet you provide no substantial evidence to support your claim. I cannot be sorry that the facts are negative. When it is raining, no amount of wishing for the sun will make the rain go away. And when one is being pissed upon, laying claims that it is merely rain won't change the reality that they're being pissed upon!

Thanks for weighing in though... I guess.

Originally posted by new_here
reply to post by RocksFromSpace

 

How unfair that you had this dream and built up this business with sound business practices, only to have it fade from fruition due to reckless governing beyond the scope of your influence.

I knew the TV newscasters were lying to me last Monday. I could tell by the desperate way they kept repeating over and over again, their hollow message. Basically the gist of it was: "Despite the economy, people came out in record numbers on Black Friday, and online sales for Monday hit record high..." They used this sound bite during commercials before the news came on, and they used it during the news to say, "Later in our show..." and "When we come back from commercial break..."

When folks come out in record numbers for BF....its not a good sign. And like you say when the pump it and pump it you know they are just priming the pump, things are not good.

How about the little bits they do where they tell you how much the average jane and joe are going to spend this year at xmas.....hint hint. Good robot spend x amount.....good robot spend x amount....good robot runs over people in the parking lot at Walmart to get that deal......good robots dont read fine print......

reply to post by proximo


As I replied to Kozmo, I can only speak for what I personally know. I do see signals that lead me personally to be optimistic. I do not listen to the MSM on just about anything. Journalism went out the window years ago and what you hear is what they want you to hear. Every "press release" is now an opinion/editorial and it will always be slanted to extract a calculated response. As I said in my reply to Kozmo, sometimes they twist things to generate a positive or enthusiastic response and sometimes to get a negative response...fear or despair.

We only have access to so many facts. You don't want to see the stock market as an indicator...ok, that is your choice. You have reasons to believe the housing market is not returning, where I think it is. You see negative indicators in your area and feel it is the general rule...I see positive indicators where I am and I think that is the general rule. I am going to guess the truth is somewhere in the middle.

There are real issues and we all know this. The "fiscal cliff" negotiations are an utter and complete sham...these criminals are not even trying to address or fix the real problems. But you know what? If they think they have a plan and none of this crap matters...so be it. I am going to continue to try and do my best and "make hay while the sun is shining". If spring comes and the economy slams shut...I'll have hopefully banked enough dough to make it till it crawls out again. Wallowing in worry and despair is not going to make a damn thing better for me or for anyone else.

Sorry to hear about OP's woes. But I don't think anything has changed on a small business level in the past 200 years or more. There have always been winners and losers and even tiny details can cause a business to boom while another identical business may fail. One small business failing or succeeding isn't a marker for the overall health of the economy.

As for the general job market - I know of several people (including myself) who voluntarily or involuntarily changed jobs after the 2008 crash and ended up with much better positions & pay. So I can't personally complain about the economy but all the people I'm talking about are college educated with experience in their professional field. Higher education DOES pay off even though you end up with a small mortgage at the end. You can't drop out of high-school and expect to live in a mansion and drive luxury cars. But I digress.