Power (Freedom) vs Acceptance - Being in the "Now" or breaking one's will!?

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posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 06:56 AM
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Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 





I don't have to survive.
I am (presence) forever and always.
What i am can never be destroyed.


If you breath air, eat food and require shelter over yourhead you do need to survive, this is inherent to you as a physical creature.


You 'think' you are the physical (a 'thing').
I know i see 'things' appearing presently.
The seeing will not stop.
Can you find what is seeing this?
edit on 2-12-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 07:01 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


As an observer i can see humans are all in survival mode, bar no exceptions.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 07:03 AM
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Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


As an observer i can see humans are all in survival mode, bar no exceptions.


All humans that believe they are living in time are in survival mode.
When one realizes timeless being is all there is, what has to survive?



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 07:06 AM
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Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


As an observer i can see humans are all in survival mode, bar no exceptions.


What about those who commit suicide? Are they in survival mode?



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 07:07 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 





All humans that believe they are living in time are in survival mode.
When one realizes timeless being is all there is, what has to survive?



Your not a timeless being, you are a physical human with a finite time on the earth. This is how it is.
Im off to bed bed now so thats all i can reply for now.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 07:09 AM
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Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 





All humans that believe they are living in time are in survival mode.
When one realizes timeless being is all there is, what has to survive?



Your not a timeless being, you are a physical human with a finite time on the earth. This is how it is.
Im off to bed bed now so thats all i can reply for now.


Again this is what you believe.
There is only 'timeless being'. This is it. Presence.

You 'believe' there is a physical word made of solid stuff but physisists have not found matter as yet - they can only find that the smallest 'building block' is made of 99.9999% empty space. When do they do the observation?
They do it presently. They look at what is here and examine it.
Have a look at what is here, it is all that can be examined because this is all there is.
edit on 2-12-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by arpgme

So even giving up the power, control over your life, you will still gain the freedom - because now you are free of responsibility of your life (as life will just carry you along and you just go with it).


Yeah... I mean look at it this way- we like surprises, right? Or at least some of us do. Christmas morning presents.. not knowing what is in store for you. Even in sports or hobbies, sometimes seeing how fast you can respond to whatever is thrown at you unexpectedly is exciting! Recieving from others, that has it's upside... maybe it's just because I am female, but I totally understand the pelasure in being on the recieving end.



so what is everyone's ideal for life? Compassion? Power? Freedom? I am curious to see which people hold as their highest virtue. Maybe this should have been a new thread..


I have found that I am happiest if I experience a bit of everything? We have different roles in our life, different relationships, that enable us to experience different parts of ourself, and that can be one way we can have it all.

Like having a different role at home than you do at work. In my family, my husband has responsibility, power and autonomy in his job, but at home he likes to be the one who is not in charge. Here he can be the passive one- he trusts me enough for that. I know it is not because he can't be dominating at home, it's just that he needs a break from the responsibility- a rest, a moment of being the follower to recharge the batteries.

I have roles in which I am the passive one too (I take lessons in my favorite sport) and that is a joy to me.
I seek balance most of all. But it doesn't have to be in the same relationship. Like dieting, I don't need the four food groups in the same meal, I can eat four meals a day with one food group in each!
Relationships, and powerplays, allow us to vary our experience of self too!
edit on 2-12-2012 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Again this is what you believe.
There is only 'timeless being'. This is it. Presence.


What is the point of introducing the no-concept of being in the present moment?
Or is there no true introduction because it is non-intent?



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by 1Learner
 


I don't understand the point of your questions?
Can you rephrase them please?
edit on 2-12-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


Your physical body has an origin. When you were born it was now unfolding.

If the past doesn't exist, why is it that if I am here now among people, and I asked them what just happen 5 seconds in the past, they will all KNOW that past moment? of me saying hi to everyone?

If the past isn't real, then things can be chaotic because that would mean that this is no cause in effect, but how can that be if we can plant seeds that turns to plants and grow vegetables?

Maybe what is within me is eternal, and always present, but this body is not. I have watched it grow, and so have others and we all have actually memories of the past of me looking different over time.


Even if I silence my mind and just let life "happen" (as you say)...
I would still be reacting based on how I was TAUGHT to react.
If I think something brings pain or suffering - instinct would be to get away from it (and the emotion of fear).
It was something TAUGHT (not now - but learned).

Like I said before, while you are thinking of "now" - people who do not like you can be strategizing using past, present, and future to plan to "get you".

What if you were playing chess? Or in a real life situation where people are planning to get you? You would be at a disadvantage to just "act" and "be in the moment" without thinking of the past (experience) and the future (what will happen as a result of your potential action).
edit on 2-12-2012 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


I will try.
You talk of the present moment, and i assume that you have been trying to answer the questions regarding it. In answering those questions, are you not explaining it ("presence")?
If not, what are you doing? And is doing a separation of the You from the the Now?
edit on 2-12-2012 by 1Learner because: revised



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 07:35 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


How about a middle ground where you move naturally from within the wide spectrum that exists between one extreme and the other, depending on the moment you are involved with? What is the requirement to choose one as a dogma over the other?

You have been given the gift of sentience, and you are free to challenge all paradigms that exist. Why not examine and try out every version of existence that is available to you? As you learn, you will discover new ways of expressing your own inimitable manner of life and intellectual development. Each new experience, followed by each new analysis of how that experience affects your own gathered intelligent structure, will slowly transform you into the fully developed human being that you'll one day become. Try not to limit yourself.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Again this is what you believe.
There is only 'timeless being'. This is it. Presence.


The material world is only present. This is true. But, being a human being causes you to literally straddle two incompatible physical realms - one that is material and one that is informational. This is the difference between being a rock and being a brain-equipped dynamic being. As you think, each burst of intellect emerges as permanent physical existence that is profoundly associated (contextually) with every previous burst of intellect that your material brain has configured since "going online" when you were born. This physical existence has no half-life rate of decay, since it isn't event-centric as material configurations are. Information masses are contextually configured, which is unlike the matrixed event configurations that you seem fixated on with your "It's Now Again" philosophy.


You 'believe' there is a physical word made of solid stuff but physisists have not found matter as yet - they can only find that the smallest 'building block' is made of 99.9999% empty space. When do they do the observation?

They do it presently. They look at what is here and examine it.
Have a look at what is here, it is all that can be examined because this is all there is.


Observation is actually experienced as "immediate memory",and has been determined to occur between a half second to a full seven seconds after the fact ( www.nature.com... ) so forget the "being in the now" like ever. This is due to the requirement that your mind/brain data vetting-associating process protect you from potential reality schisms - giving you a serious advantage in the material survival game. There's a movie called "Momento" that does a pretty good job of depicting a guy who actually does live "in the moment" in exactly the manner you seem to insist that we all live. Rent it, and see what a mess that would actually be for you if you did actually live only in the moment.

Physicists know that information is what holds that .0001% of material organization together in spite of the 99.9999% of open space, and it's information (residual and dynamic) that provides the ongoing now and then that you are having such a difficult time accepting as real. You create dynamic information from instant to instant as your brain insists that you only exist in a stagnant "now". You learn this when your body stops being "in the present" and starts rotting off in a hole in the ground. You'll learn a lot of things once you've moved past this stage of development, but only if you allow yourself to.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 





I don't have to survive.
I am (presence) forever and always.
What i am can never be destroyed.


If you breath air, eat food and require shelter over yourhead you do need to survive, this is inherent to you as a physical creature.


i think the point is that we are not primarily physical.. if our body goes, we will still exist, maybe not consciously but we will.



posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by kmstar

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 





I don't have to survive.
I am (presence) forever and always.
What i am can never be destroyed.


If you breath air, eat food and require shelter over yourhead you do need to survive, this is inherent to you as a physical creature.



i think the point is that we are not primarily physical.. if our body goes, we will still exist, maybe not consciously but we will.


And you believe with itsnowagain its a certainty this point is true?



posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 05:29 AM
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Through will, from desire, you don't control but are controlled. Anything you do is done to you. Only through inaction are you free. You are everything.



posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 07:06 AM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb
Through will, from desire, you don't control but are controlled. Anything you do is done to you. Only through inaction are you free. You are everything.


Through inaction, you are only free to choose to be inactive - which is still a choice. By being inactive, you are initiating a lack of response to satisfy a desire to express your will that inaction is the proper course of action within a given circumstance exchange. True inaction is actually impossible, since preventing action is an active, deliberate response that counters your DNA survival dictates - most of which instinctively initiate an animated reaction to a presented stimulation.

Your inaction requirement is actually a learned, and therefore deliberate, response that can only be developed and strengthened by sheer force of will. Exactly the opposite of what you suggest here. It's extreme self control.



posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 09:58 AM
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Well then, I guess peace is a matter of respecting the controller.



posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by NorEaster


Observation is actually experienced as "immediate memory",and has been determined to occur between a half second to a full seven seconds after the fact ( www.nature.com... ) so forget the "being in the now" like ever.


If what you write is true it is a wonder more people don't die on the road.

This is what you linked as proof that you can never be in the now (present):
There has been a long controversy as to whether subjectively 'free' decisions are determined by brain activity ahead of time. We found that the outcome of a decision can be encoded in brain activity of prefrontal and parietal cortex up to 10 s before it enters awareness. This delay presumably reflects the operation of a network of high-level control areas that begin to prepare an upcoming decision long before it enters awareness.
End quote.

Do you believe that this quote says you are never in the now?
Do you think that what you have written reflects what the link says (quoted and copied above)?
edit on 3-12-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2012 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by 1Learner
reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


I will try.
You talk of the present moment, and i assume that you have been trying to answer the questions regarding it. In answering those questions, are you not explaining it ("presence")?
If not, what are you doing? And is doing a separation of the You from the the Now?
edit on 2-12-2012 by 1Learner because: revised

'Presence' cannot be explained because the mind is conceptual (it uses words to explain), and what this is cannot be put into words, it is non conceptual, unspeakable, indescribable.

This is from earlier in the thread and may (or may not) answer your question.
I point out that nothing exists outside the present moment.
Not everyone is aware of the fact.

'You' do not actually exist in the 'now' - there is not a 'now' and a 'you' existing in it.
There is only presence.

You 'think' you exist in time. Presence is 'your' absense.

Edit.
I have just read your long post on page 2 - wow. That was an amazingly insightful read.
edit on 3-12-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)





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