Ok, who can prove magic exists?

an3rkist,

Now you would get the way above award if I could've voted (mods can't vote)... That was one of the best explanations of magick that I've heard on the forum.

if i was to give a caveman a lighter? wat would he think? magic
it is just the same in our time, magic doesnt exsist, its just the caveman on a different scale... its probably what we cant explain...
well atm that is

Yep, we can't explain it yet. What's considered paranormal now will probably be considered normal in the future. But that still doesn't mean that it will be mundane, physical stuff. Astral Projection has been considered normal by millions in the past and present. Yet it's not mundane.

Originally posted by DeltaChaos

Originally posted by AngelaLadyS
Now, as far as I'm concerned.... we have dead guy hooked to a machine.

I'll put it a different way.


If the body does not decompose, it is alive. If there is a measureable bio-electrical current found within the cells of an organism, it is alive. If the cells assimilate oxygen and nutrients and continue to survive, they are alive.

The fact that the machine is causing the organism to stay alive is only secondary to the fact that the organism is, in fact, alive.

The organism will die if the machine is removed. Respiration will stop, the cells will cease their functions, and they will begin to decompose. Then the organism is dead.

As far as you're concerned, you've just decided what is alive and what is dead according to what you choose to believe. This belief has no bearing on the actual definitions of alive and dead.

[edit on 22-10-2004 by DeltaChaos]

Ok - I'll meat you half way here. Cellular structure can live on machines. But the 'person', which is composed of more than just the cellular sturctures and systems that create it - that 'person' is more than just a fleshy organization of lving organisms holding it together. If what you are saying above is correct - we'd be like plant life or a animal life other than a thinking/feeling/emotional (yes, spiritual) human.

Let me ask you this.

If you and I were capable of creating our own human person out of 'parts' of "dead guy hooked to machine"...
Once we got this human looking thing up and off the table (no machines) - do you think it would think and feel ect, or would it be nothing more than a complicated living organism?

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
Who can submit, provide, produce, or otherwise procure any physical evidence of the existence of magic? Anyone?

Okay... I've seen this thread float up repeatedly to the top of the list and finally decided to look at it.

In answer to your question, yes. I can.

However, before I bother going into detail about something that is sacred to me, I would ask you why you want to know, and what difference would it make in your life?

Would you wake up "the morrow morn, a sadder and wiser man", to quote Samuel Taylor Cooleridge? Would it somehow bring an enlightenment to you that was not there before? Would you seek to disprove it, and how so? By travelling all the way to Texas? By standing out front of my home, goading me in the hopes that I would perform for you, like some sort of circus act?

Perhaps that is the reason why no one goes out to Channel 5 and proves it to the media. Perhaps that is the reason people don't make it public.

Or perhaps the reason why is because by the time one reaches a point where they -can- honestly do something, they are at a point where proving it to others no longer matters. "Magic" or whatever you want to call it, is its own reward and punishment. And I can say, with all honesty, that you are probably much happier not knowing the truth.

In my family there is a book of spells. It was deemed that most all of us were unable to ward off the evilness (however great or little) that would come with using the spells.
There is a 'curator' designated and he will not read it either. I have seen it, not even allowed to touch it.
You can believe this or not. I believe.

I wish I could 'produce' this book for all to see. I'd like to read it, cast a good spell over myself, and a bad one over Bin Laden

Casting bad spells to other people won't work out for the better. There's a great chance for it to backfire. Even it's on Bin Laden. The best thing is a spell for Bin Laden to find peace and become of a non-hostile nature in a way that would benefit him most. Magick does not have morals and does not discriminate (between right and wrong). It just follows standard laws.

well most people just think magic just pop out of nowhere. if you say i have magic and i'm going to turn you in to a pig, i mean you got to have some sort of way of doing it like gathering energy and mixing cemical


so bascily science , human mind, telekins is like magic

Here's some interesting data on the CIA's remote veiwing unit of psychics based at Ft Meade.

www.rviewer.com

magic is like religion; originally used to explain the "strange", the unpredicable, and the seemingly paranormal.

why does static zaps happen? magic
why is she sick? black magic
how did he heal her? white magic

etcetera.

Anyway, who believes science to be objective?

The basis of Scientific theory is hypothesis, which the rest of the world calls intuition, which is completely subjective, as is the limitation of those facts considered to be material in the outcome of an experiment.

Numerical evaluation of real quantities must always be viewed with caution, as in the real world no two units can ever be considered truely homogenous, thus even the most rigorous scientist exists within his own value laden philosophical construct.

Majic is simply phenomena that science is yet to verify. There is a prima facea case to suggest that many kinds of paranormal activity is real, and hopefully in the fullness of time will be explained.

It is a dreadfully naive position to consider only those things that science can rationalise as at today as being real. Even the most hard core cynic would have to conceed that in two hundred years time our scientific knowledge will increase profoundly.

To announce that anything today known as 'Magic' as being a crock, is tantamount to saying that science knows everything it's ever going to know and we will never learn anything more. It is a truely unscientific paradigm to reject any and all evidence and hypothesis before it can be evaluated.

A true scientist would never reject a hypothesis based on actual observation without extensive first hand research, and even then can only conclude that a phenomena cannot be proven at this time.

I think we're limited in our experience of the universe not only through the filter of who and what we are, but by our perception of those things.

What I mean is, as humans we have to view things through the filter of being humans. From the fundimentals, such as sight, sound, touch, ten fingers, 2 eyes, visual spectrum, etc, we have a limit on our perceptions of the universe.

We do our best to assign everything into little boxes and label them, but sometimes, what we observe simply cannot be defined. And in fact, I've wondered: is something any less valid if it cannot be defined?

Are we fooling ourselves that our expectations of the world around us has to be so neat and regular, so tied to law and reason and procedure? Science has been a good friend to us, but even so, look at how the laws for the micro, say quantum mechanics, seem nonsensical when an analogy is brought into the 'regular' world.

As an aside, I read once that miracles happen every day. By that I mean that so many events occur every instant, that the probability of 'odd' things happening, while improbable, are not impossible and since so many things occur, you're bound to have a few WTFs mixed in there.

All that being said, what we label magic could just be another way of boxing up our experience of the universe. Just because it cannot be 'explained' in the realm of science doesn't mean it's not valid. Just that that viewport of rules cannot sort and label it appropriately.

Think of us as being truly outside the truth of the universe, peeking in through windows and trying to understand what we see inside.

LOL I left this thread a long time ago, but saw it come up again...Have you read the whole thread? Don't knock yourselves out to much trying to to explain....the original poster was only looking for information to write a book pretending to be interested....he was afraid no one would respond if they knew it was research.....I no longer read his posts or threads as I no longer trust...all credibility was lost "for me". I was trying my best to help him understand and I felt really duped.....
now I'mm outa here again...

i dont believe in magic. but, maybe there used to be magic, but something mysteriously made it disappear. maybe there is magic, not here, but in another world, in another demention. they do have a lot of mythology about macic and magical creatures and stuff like that, but that, that is stuff i dont believe, untill i see it w/ my own eyes, in reality, not pictures or anything like that, then i will believe it

well, first define magic.
what do you seriously consider magic to be?
is it the same as acts of god?
is it the same as technology?
what exactly do you consider magic to be?

Alright DeltaChaos - my Buddy - this one is for YOU!:

-> www.illwillpress.com...


[edit on 23-1-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Greetings,
Feels free to quote me vigorously and question anything you like. I have no problem explaining any of it.

This is my opinion, and its only the opinion of one person, like everything else in the world. It may be odd and may be insulting but remember opinions are worth very little.

"Magic in any shape or form does not exist. Nor does any Gods, any spirit, any soul. Your your mind is not even something special, your imagination is not either. There are no 'waves', nor 'fields' created by your mind or body.
The entire world, including your brain, body, and everything else is simply, and obviously, the result of partical interactions. Molecules exchanging charge and atoms moving and binding and breaking create your mind, or rather, your brain, the physical object. Your mind is nothing but electrical charge and moving particals. As are your thoughts, your imagination, everything. No fields outside those created by the charge of atoms, and in certain areas they are slighty stronger, but nothing that a piece of iron doesnt have. This rules out anything thats transmitted or harnessed, any form of energy. There isnt even such thing as "positive emotion" because emotions are just particals moving in a predictable and observable pattern that happen to create a stimulus. Your body has no special energy. Even love, the 'overwhelming emotion' is just particals moving and exchanging electrons. This opinion conforms to all accepted forms of physics and does not take position on anything debated seriously. It does not even accept magic as even being possible, much less testable. Anything that someone calls magic that can be observed and repeated MUST in some fashion follow the laws of physics. If you attempt to defend your position that I cannot see or understand it because of my aura or attitude is dismissed as false. If you show me something you consider magic and allow me to observe, but not interfer in it in any way I choose, it will either follow all known physics, or be debunked as false." - Raideur

You may begin the onslaught, however, if you consider yourself special in that only you observe it, I will dismiss it. Im sorry but that is far too difficult to argue with a case like that.

Quote: "Magic in any shape or form does not exist. Nor does any Gods, any spirit, any soul. Your your mind is not even something special, your imagination is not either.... Even Love, the 'overwhelming emotion' is just particals moving and exchanging electrons."

What a Drab & Grey Perspective! You must live in one of those *BORING* Universes!

If you take all the partical interactions in the world, or a given area, like your head, you can predict with perfection, what is going to happen, or what someone will do, chance and randomness are just our ignorance of what those particals are doing.

Over about a months time I was able to move things with my mind. Each night I would practice concentrating on a small paper wheel I made and balanced it on a thumb tack and placed a glass over it so I could see the activity so breeze wouldn't effect the spinning. Toward the end of the month I started to attempt moving other objects like pencils and balled up tin foil. I was sucessful in my attempts. I don't know if you believe me but, just thought you wanted to know that Telekinesis is possible.