Ok, who can prove magic exists?

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Now if my Magickal aim was to Earn a Million Dollars - well is would not be easy - but it IS entirely Possible...

I have read some of Crowley's work. Back in a day when I was much more impressionable, and even then, I was not impressed upon.

Crowley's Magickal aim was to earn a million dollars. And he did so. By selling his books to people whom I dare to speculate only were able to recreate this magick in their own minds.

You know, I guess if one wanted to, they could consider everything they did magical just because they intended to do it. I think more proper terms to define this would be 'work' or 'action'. Yes these terms would more accurately describe what one gets when they do something they intend to do.

So if you stub your toe, or break a plate taking it out of the cupboard, this is not magic because you did not intend to do it, right? Or can we place some other obscure and rediculous term on the unintentional just for the sake of aesthetics? Maybe we'd call this a curse?

NO WAIT! I've got it!!! An Occident!!!

[edit on 26-10-2004 by DeltaChaos]

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
All right.

Who can submit, provide, produce, or otherwise procure any physical evidence of the existence of magic? Anyone?

What about psychokinetic powers? Premonition? Telekinesis?

How about results taken from psychic readings, palm readings, astrology, anything of this nature?

This topic, I believe, belongs in the sci/tech forum because I'm asking for the subjecting of these fallacies to the scientific method. Why is there no proof on record that these things exist?



I doubt I will get much response from this thread, as no one can provide the proof, most likely for some wholely inane reasoning.

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You ask like we are L.L.LABS or M.I.T. funy ...no ?? chapo

Yes the term/word "work" is Valid. Like this statement - "I am
WORKING MAGICK". Or this one "We as a group are about to WORK a MAGICK RITUAL".

Originally posted by chapo
You ask like we are L.L.LABS or M.I.T. funy ...no ?? chapo

No, I believe that MIT has conducted a study on psychic phenomena and other 'magics'. If their results were anything but conclusive, we would have heard about it. This is my point. No one has actually seen it happen.

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Yes the term/word "work" is Valid. Like this statement - "I am
WORKING MAGICK". Or this one "We as a group are about to WORK a MAGICK RITUAL".

Rhetorical banter. Supersillious semantics. Let me try...

I'm going to magically complete my homework.

I don't feel like mowing the lawn, so I'll do my yardwork with my magical abilities.

I owe, I owe, so off to perform magic I go.

Doctor: "Were going to need some bloodwork, so Nurse Ratchet here is going to cast a bleeding spell. This won't hurt a bit"

My boss: "Hey! Get off your @ass and get back to summoning the evil demons! I don't know what I pay you for!"

DeltaChaos - the Last 2 were really stupid. Remember just because YOU believe that Magick doesn't exist - doesn't mean that it doesn't exist Period - just that YOU PERSONALLY don't believe in it. Lets say that I believed that all Religion was a bunch of Non-Sense - would that mean that Everyone in the world would suddenly become Atheists? That I would never run into a Religious person again? Of-course not!

Lets take the Phenomena of ESP & Telepathy as an Example. Just because you PERSONALLY don't believe in it doesn't mean that it doesn't Exist!!! Perhaps some people have this ability Naturally & perhaps some have worked hard on developing this ability or both. If you ran into a Person that had this ability & they Read your Mind or Communicated a detailed message to you with out Physically Speaking a Word - you would then have to change your Position no? Or would your belief that it doesn't exist be so strong that you would run around in Logistical Circles in order to explain it away? What would you say if I told you that I have Personally Experienced these Phenomena more than once in my Life? Probably that it was an Illusion or Trick of some kind. My response to this would be - A good Magician is a Master of Illusion!!! The ability to Perform Magick requires Discipline of both Body & Mind!!!

Might as well give my opinion on the subject. I'll give a recent example also.

I believe and my experiences have shown that the combination of strong will, desire and energy has an effect on others. Everyone does it everyday in varying degrees. In our normal consciousness we effect reality very little if at all. Under the influence of intense/mild emotions the effects can often times be noticeable. When bringing yourself to an altered state of consciousness, gathering energy and 'charging' it with your desired intent, you can often have very noticable effects.

Can I prove this? Well thats where things get a bit tricky. Magick requires there to be at least a chance that something can occur. Also the higher the probability that something will occur the better chance I have at making it happen. For example I couldn't cast a spell to have George Bush call me to wish me happy birthday and expect it to happen with 100% certainty. From my own experience you can't make someone do something they don't want to do, they must at least have some desire to do it. After I cast my spell, George Bush may have an inclination to call and wish someone happy birthday but since he doesn't know me he won't think to call me.

Now if I cast a spell desiring my friend whom I haven't spoken to in 6 months to call me then I can expect to hear from them. They may regret not calling me for so long and have a desire to talk to me again and my spell may be strong enough to give them that extra kick to get them to act.

Just to be clear here, let me better define my definition of magick before I continue. Magick is the use of will, desire, and energy to have a change in others to produce your desired outcome. It brings about your desire through the actions of others. It's not the same as say telekenisis, because telekenisis requires actually physically effecting an object.

Now here is my most recent attempt at magick which occured two days ago. I was sitting through a boring lecture, trying to stay awake. Not wanting to doze off I decided I might as well have some fun. The teacher was using a projector during his lecture and I thought I would try to get the projector to turn off. I noticed he was holding the remote controll for the projector in his hand so I figured I had a good chance at success.

I got into as deep a state of relaxation as I could in the setting, raised some energy, charged it with a strong desire for the projector to shut off, visualized the projector shutting off and then projected my energy at the professor and the projector. I then cleared my mind and tried not to think about it anymore (this seems to help).

3 minutes later the projector screen went blue. Not exactly what I had wanted but close enough. Apparently my instructors finger slipped and he hit the button to change the (I think) input source on the projector resulting in the blue screen. This actually worked out better because apparently my instructor didn't know how to correct the problem. He sat there for about 2 minutes trying to figure it out before someone in the back spoke up and told him how to fix it.

Could it have been pure chance? Of course. But my instructor has been teaching for several years now and he uses that projector for all of his classes. I find it strange that he didn't know how to fix that problem. Apparently he usually doesn't have slips on the remote. What is even stranger is that his slip occurred after I had 'cast my spell'. I had never seen him do that before.

I believe everything and everyone in the universe is in someway "connected". "All in the All" as is said. By planting strong desires into our subconscious our subconscious tries to make it happen. It "contacts" the subconscious minds of our targets and also implants our desires in their minds. My desire to have the projector turned off was passed along to my instructor. His subconscious probably induced a muscle twitch or something causing his finger to slip and hit the button on the remote. Since my desire didn't cause my instructor do something he was adamantly against nor did it necessarily require his conscious control, his subconscious was able to bring about results very quickly.

Anyhow that is my theory.

But I think this shows why you can't really prove magick to others. There is always the chance that it wasn't caused by the magick. Personally I've done enought to prove it to myself but I doubt its currently enough to stand up to the skeptics.

[edit on 27-10-2004 by dusran]

To prove it exists, everybody just has to do it for themselves. I've done it sometimes, and I know people who have done magick sometimes. It's exactly as dusran just explained.

In fact, there are people who don't even ask these questions anymore. They just know that it exists based on their own experiences with it. No amount of scientific inquiry, experiments or publications can change their opinions about magick and manifestations, because for their own personal lives the evidence is waaaaay more that it does exist.

I'm one of them, and some others you can find at this webforum.

Usually people who are into manifestations are not bothered with questions like the ones in this thread. If it's verified or proven by science or not.

I don't know about calling it magic. Manifestations is a better term for me. And I agree. As long as I've proven it to myself, I'm satisfied.

Bump!

Is anyone still up for the challenge of proving magic exist? We need tangible evidence people.

Prove it to yourself first. Try some of the methods. There are lots on the net. There are good material like the "Initiation to Hermetics" book, the hypnosis kids website, the Silva method and more..

But you do have to be able to seperate what works from the nonsense from the beginning though. (Most of the New agey stuff is the nonsense).


These kinds of things you have to prove to yourself. Most people are completely closed to the idea that they might work, so trying to prove something like magick to other people will be fruitless most of the time. They'll make up an excuse to debunk it. It doesn't matter if it worked or not.

[edit on 23-11-2004 by TheBandit795]

In my opinion magic is something that we cannot normally do nor explain in a logic or scientific way. Our brain is extremelly powerfull n if we know how to use 100% of it I think we could make any kind of "magic" , including controlling the universe. as alredy said in this topic, magic probably is energy manipulation...but how can we manipulate it?... the answer is inside our own mind n we have to figure out how to do it in the way we want n when we want. the sad thing is that u use not more than 5% of our brain. so we must start practicising mental exercises to improve our habilities, inteligence n increasing the rate of brain usage. in some centuries, maybe thousands of years when we grow up maybe many og the things we nowadays consider magic or paranormal, will be normal habilities...

There you go edu - I think that you are getting the hang of it!!! Keep going!

"Magick is the Science and Art of Causing Change to Occur in Conformity with (the Practitioners) Will."

Has anyone ever questioned what MONEY is & why it was invented & how we can use it?
Sometimes Money (which is a Technology) works like MAGICK,
No?

Is this a cliche?


All those who believe in telekenisis raise my hand.

Originally posted by an3rkist
All those who believe in telekenisis raise my hand.

I would give you a 'way above' if I didnt waste them all in a drunken stupor.

www.discoverychannelasia.com...
www.mysteriouspeople.com...

????Magic???

Originally posted by Simulacra

Originally posted by an3rkist
All those who believe in telekenisis raise my hand.

I would give you a 'way above' if I didnt waste them all in a drunken stupor.

Oh yeah??? I would give him the now defunct moron award... He clearly didn't do research and doesn't know how telekineses works, if it works...

Originally posted by TheBandit795

Originally posted by Simulacra

Originally posted by an3rkist
All those who believe in telekenisis raise my hand.

I would give you a 'way above' if I didnt waste them all in a drunken stupor.

Oh yeah??? I would give him the now defunct moron award...

He clearly didn't do research and doesn't know how telekineses works, if it works...

Perhaps you're right, but I still enjoyed my little contribution...

If you want me to leave humor out of it, (I hope you don't do that in your everyday life. How sad!) Here is my take on the whole magick subject:

I recall a quote from an episode of "The X-Files" in which, as usual, Agent Scully was trying to debunk His Worshipfulness...er, Agent Mulder's theory. Throughout her ramblings she said something that has stuck in my mind ever since:

"Nothing can defy the laws of Nature, only what we know about them."

I'm not sure what she was saying this in reference to, but I think it holds merit in this conversation. If magick does exist, and it very well may, I don't believe it to be anything "abnormal", "unnatural", or anything like that. I think it uses energy from within ourselves, and energy we can harness that is around us. I suppose, in theory, this would make magick indeed very possible.

The mind itself holds great power, far beyond what any of us are aware of. There have been studies done where subjects were convinced a penny was hot, and when it was placed in their hands it literally burned their skin, even though the penny was mere room temperature. If the brain can unknowingly scorch the skin when no outside source of heat is present, imagine what you could do if you knew how to utilize these powers.

If one could only learn how to project these powers outward, onto external objects and/or entitites, then, my friend, you've got yourself some real bonified magick!

[edit on 27-11-2004 by an3rkist]

I am *Convinced* that NUMBERS have an actual MAGICKAL property to them - who here practices any sort of Qabalah?

"One man's "magic" is another man's engineering. "Supernatural" is a null word."
-Robert A. Heinlein


What do you think people who lived thousand years ago would think about current technology?