Conspiracy theorists are Smokers in front of Mirrors.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
The problem with conspiracy theories is a common one in that they all lack solid evidence to allow verifying their claims. Despite the efforts of numerous reseachers, novices, amaturer adventures to uncover the truth they never come up with any solid evidence. Is it sensible for people to become facsinated and occupied with conspiracy theories and subbjects when they have such a good track record for not delivering proof of their claims. Below i will list out some of the common conspiracy theories i have encountered while being on Ats, and where no physical evidence has been provide for independant objective scrunity to allow proofing claims. And this highlights the common theme problem with conspiracy theories that people who will come forward with fantastic stories but are unable to provide any solid proof to be able to subtantiate they are true.

- Aliens/Ufos visiting earth
- Big Foot
- US Secret Mars Space program
- JFK assasination
- Royal family is Reptilians
- Time travel
- Illuminati
- Controlled World Ecomonic Collapse
- Elites want to Eugenics the world
- The Collapse of society to Martial law and Police state
- Mk Ultra mind control programs


The listed is some of the popular reoccuring conspiracy subjects and which we huddle like children around the conspiracy campfire and listen to the stories of the bogeyman from space or created in some insideous Black ops lab. Are the Conspiracy theorists story tellers insane?

There is no Ufo or Jfk Santa claus walking throough the crowd, and yet people cry conspiracy theory whereever they are looking. We have become lazy havent we? I mean we are looking for the easy way out to blame life hardships, unfairness and possibly our own failings on something else that doesnt even exist. So i ask you deliver me some solid proof of these conspiracies, and please dont link me to Project Camelot site because if you do that you will only be confirming my position, that Conspiracy theorists are Smokers in front of Mirrors.

how about these that have been documented, verifed, and admitted to:

1...watergate
2...gulf of tonkin resolution
3...iran-contra
4...the CDC admitting to clandistine syphilis experiments on blacks

all top level government conspirecies that turned out to be fact. and those are just ones off the top of my head.

reply to post by Rising Against


Just the person I was looking for, thanks . So the CIA is working on mind control programs and the proof is in the pudding.

Let's have a look at their mind control program.

Project MKUltra

Project MKUltra was the code name for a covert research operation experimenting in the behavioral engineering of humans through the CIA's Scientific Intelligence Division. The program began in the early 1950s, was officially sanctioned in 1953, was reduced in scope in 1964, further curtailed in 1967 and officially halted in 1973.[1]

Officially . Even if I was to believe that they still have officially 20 years of experience in mind control and that alone is scary enough but I'd be a fool to believe this Gov't of ours gave that program up , which leads us to another fun "conspiracy"

Operation Mockingbird

In 1948, Frank Wisner was appointed director of the Office of Special Projects (OSP). Soon afterwards OSP was renamed the Office of Policy Coordination (OPC). This became the covert action branch of the Central Intelligence Agency. Wisner was told to create an organization that concentrated on "propaganda, economic warfare; preventive direct action, including sabotage, anti-sabotage, demolition and evacuation measures; subversion against hostile states, including assistance to underground resistance groups, and support of indigenous anti-Communist elements in threatened countries of the free world."[2]

Later that year Wisner established Mockingbird, a program to influence foreign media. Wisner recruited Philip Graham from The Washington Post to run the project within the industry. According to Deborah Davis in Katharine the Great; "By the early 1950s, Wisner 'owned' respected members of The New York Times, Newsweek, CBS and other communications vehicles."[3] Wisner referred to this apparatus as a "Mighty Wurlitzer", referencing the theater organ capable of controlling diverse pipes, instruments, and sound effects from a central console.[4][5]

Operation Northwoods is just another piece to the puzzle and many argue 9/11 is straight from that playbook.

Remember folks, they hate us for our freedoms, so to make them like us again we've been giving up our freedoms

reply to post by b3l13v3

It's blatantly obvious they exist. Patriots Act, NDAA, all of this BS goes by unblemished by the populace. They've systematically created a way to feed your mind what they want it to know(TV),

The use of laws to influence and control social outcomes in not exactly new its been around for a long time. The development of TV is more recent and there in no doubt that TV marketing of ideas in program content does influence social behaviour. These kind of things are the forms of solid proof that governments control social behaviour patterns. Its quite still a jump to argue because i can show this...then a ruling elite must be behind 9/11 for example.

reply to post by Rising Against


Mabey i have been a bit unfair and dramatic in my open delivery. I accept some people go into conspiracy theories because the main stream explanations upon scrutiny dont hold up very well. That certainly is a legitmate reason alone to want to look further, and doing that does require some level of speculation of ..."what if".

And yes i accept a person can go and do there own research....which i have done. What i have found in communicating with other people who are into researching conspiracy stuff is alot of their information is comming from the same sources. When i examine the sources i find some quite unconvincing personalities.

for example...Reptilians....David Icke. The guy is making 2 mil a year talking about his reptile theory. I rest my case on that one.

Time travel. The same names story tellers always pop us..Swerdlow, Basigno, and Weber..the spelling might not be right of their names, but they are not that convincing and the proof they are offer well....its as solid as smoke rings. It be interesting to see what money they have made out of their story telling.

You see where this is going, its going down the path of money.....There is a small core of people who are the source of the conspiracy stories and they are financially profiting from it.

reply to post by jimmyx


Are these examples of Political conspiracies or Poltical imcompetence revealed?

reply to post by MrWendal

MKUltra- sorry but that is also not a "theory". Congress held hearings about the program. In 1997 a FOIA request found over 20,000 documents relating to the program. So to say there is no evidence is just false. Don't you think? Do you have 20,000 documents about something that does not exist?

How many of these documents made it to Ats for scrutiny?

reply to post by AthlonSavage


Oh, well I 100% agree with you there then. The likes of Icke are not to be trusted under any circumstances, and there's many, many other names out there related to a wide variety of different cases and genres of conspiracies too, from politics to the paranormal and from new age spirituality to end of world theories and so on. If one is asking for money, then the chances they're not genuine rises in my opinion.

But, even so, that, and as I pointed out in my last post doesn't mean all conspiracy theories are bogus. Just as I pointed out that it was unfair to lump all theorists into one group, the same can be said for the theories themselves - It's just steretyping.

I look into the cases which interest me, the one's I can find real facts and truth in with regards to something other than the official story; the JFK and RFK assassination (The latter perhaps one of the most obvious cases of conspiracy I've ever come across believe it or not) for example, the mafia, Cointelpro, Fred Hampton, Lee Bowers, David Kelly, MK ultra, Karen Silkwood, and others yet. These just a few off the top of my head. The one's I cannot find truth in, after looking into them, I usually leave until there is a reason to look again. But I don't think anything should just be dismissed though.

..Well, unless It's coming from the mouth of Icke and the others like him of course.

Sigh... Athlon... this thread makes no sense in my eyes. You are on a conspiracy based forum - yet conspiracy theorists are nothing more than smokers in a mirror? Why are you even on this site then? This site is made up of thousands of members who believe and research conspiracy theories; some of us daily. I see that you bring no real substantiated argument to the table in why you stated what you did in this thread's opening. I will say this - I believe in conspiracies, as many are out there that need to be uncovered and delved into more deeply.

I do agree that many conspiracies involve bilking people for money and are scams. But not all of them. Some are very real and legitimate.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
...for example...Reptilians....David Icke. The guy is making 2 mil a year talking about his reptile theory. I rest my case on that one.

In a society that measures personal/professional substance by income...it would seem Icke might be on to something...

Time travel. The same names story tellers always pop us..Swerdlow, Basigno, and Weber..the spelling might not be right of their names, but they are not that convincing and the proof they are offer well....its as solid as smoke rings.

And what about Doctor Who...?

You see where this is going, its going down the path of money.....There is a small core of people who are the source of the conspiracy stories and they are financially profiting from it.

On a side note - I wonder if you might not have cast the net too wide in the OP.
On the other hand... Maybe you're just jealous that Icke (et al) is passing around the collection plate...and not you.
While "conspiracy theorists" may appear more gullible than the rest...they are also, more likely to learn a lot more on such topics than those who label them as wacko's. (what do You think?)

reply to post by AthlonSavage


Are you serious? Do a fricken google search for em.
As if they aren't real unless they're posted on ATS and have had an indepth analysis done....please

Mk Ultra mind control programs

MK-ULTRA Mind Control Clinton Apology,


Victim Testimony

If the best David Icke had to offer was his reptilian idea I believe he would be in the poor house or homeless. He explores many of the same ideas that go around these ATS forums and if he does not have some workable ideas about them he provides food for thought. But take him or leave him as you wish, no one has it 100% or a monopoly on "the truth."

Following conspiracies is like dumpster diving. Sure there is a lot of trash to toss aside but there are real treasures to be found as well. And depending on where you do your diving you can find nourishment, sustain your existent, and perhaps live in grand style. The alternatives are The Official Story, mainstream news and entertainment, and a junk-food GMO and fast-food diet. To live well and healthier you will have to do at least some of your shopping at other than the company store - and I mean that in the broader figurative sense.

I believe I became interested in "speculative theory" in the late 60's in regards to the Kennedy assassination and the unlikeliness of that convenient lone gunman story given the public as gospel. My interest in alternative explanations was sealed with the outrageous "official story" conspiracy theory of 911 about 19 Arabs with boxcutters, then how we used that as a reason to invade two totally unrelated countries.

Sorry, OP, no sympathy. Perhaps Facebook would be more to your liking than ATS.

In a paper written by Obama's regulatory czar. He admits to MKUltra and a number of other conspiracies being, in fact, true.

Conspiracy Theories Cass R. Sunstein PDF

Of course some conspiracy theories, under our definition, have turned out to be true.

The Watergate hotel room used by Democratic National Committee was, in fact, bugged by Republican officials, operating at the behest of the White House.

In the 1950s, the Central Intelligence Agency did, in fact, administer '___' and related drugs under Project MKULTRA, in an effort to investigate the possibility of “mind control.

” Operation Northwoods, a rumored plan by the Department of Defense to simulate acts of terrorism and to blame them on Cuba, really was proposed by high-level officials (though the plan never went into effect).

reply to post by Rubicant13


Someone has to play he devils advocate rub, its a a counter weight to the open mind which can after a while if not being challenged become to open. Some conspiracies will lack more credibility than others and them ones need to be weeded out for spraying just like taking care of the business of maintaining a garden in healthy condition.

reply to post by MagicWand67

In the 1950s, the Central Intelligence Agency did, in fact, administer '___' and related drugs under Project MKULTRA, in an effort to investigate the possibility of “mind control.

Its a big jump going from giving '___' to troops walking around in confusion to creating mind controlled Manchurain candidates who will carry put precise assasination on any designated target after receiving the subliminal trigger.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro

Sorry, OP, no sympathy. Perhaps Facebook would be more to your liking than ATS.

I didnt ask for sympathy i asked for Proof please read the OP again.

reply to post by WanDash

While "conspiracy theorists" may appear more gullible than the rest...they are also, more likely to learn a lot more on such topics than those who label them as wacko's. (what do You think?)

I think these a conspiracy theory brewing....

Proof is irrelevant and a divisive, useless concept. No one can agree on what constitutes "proof".

The operative word here _should_ be "evidence". And there IS physical evidence for many of the theories (or some version of them) listed in the OP. For example, there are footprint casts, hair, and scat alleged to have come from Bigfoot. There's alleged implants, medical/physical changes, photographs, videos, radar traces, radioactivity, and plaster casts (of landing pads) taken from alleged UFO landings. The JFK assassination is awash with physical evidence: the geometry of Dealy Plaza, the schoolbook depository, and the trees in front of it are eminently physical, as are the reactions of the President's head when shot, not to mention the well-documented alteration made to his body shortly after his death. And on and on and on.

To assert that these ideas are all worthless because there is no physical evidence for them is disingenuous at best and flat-out lying/trolling at worst. It's like the people who say that UFOs only appear to uneducated, poor, white rural-folks -- it's just not true but it sure is a nice warm memetic blanket you can wrap around yourself to make you feel better.

And the UFO thing in particular is just plain ol' silly to try to deny. Thousands upon thousands of people have seen weird things in the sky that they couldn't identify. To say that's not true is plain ol' foolishness. Heck, I see UFOs every day -- I _assume_ most of them are planes, but I've also seen enough video and read/heard enough reports to know that there is something _else_ going on.

I don't know which, if any, of those idea-complexes are "true", but I do know that saying there's no evidence for any of them is provably false.

something about a gifthorse

Yeah, whatever.

reply to post by AthlonSavage

Its a big jump going from giving '___' to troops walking around in confusion to creating mind controlled Manchurain candidates who will carry put precise assasination on any designated target after receiving the subliminal trigger.

It's an even bigger leap to go from MKULTRA to Manchurian candidate.

You have just changed the actual conspiracy theory now. No wonder you don't get the proof you want.

If you're seeking proof for the most extreme versions of each of these conspiracy theories then someone will always come up with a more far out, unsubstantiated and unbelievable story.

That's what disinformation and COINTELPRO is all about. Some of the most outlandish conspiracy theories are created by the perpetrators themselves to distract you from the truth.