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The "sigh" represents the fact that the only Christians who I have met who have experienced the Mystical thigs that I have, have been either monks in monasteries of the E.O. kind, self imposed hermits spending years in solitude to break through inner depths, and quite a few women who were also alone on the path because the majority of Church's don't have a clue.
It practices what it understands to be the original ancient traditions, believing in growth without change. In non-doctrinal matters the church had occasionally shared from local Greek, Slavic and Middle Eastern traditions, among others, in turn shaping the cultural development of these nations.
Add to that the fact that studying Buddhist, Hindu, & vrious philosophical & nondual texts have been a God-send in deepening the message of Jesus and the whole purpose for being a Christian ...the same texts the westerners call "Of-the devil," out of sheer ignorance,
themselves being left with the watered down teachings of Jesus which leaves much to interpretation and understanding.
Depending on where you live, most Christian churches don't deal in "non-doctrinal matters".
That may have worked for you, but I doubt that it works that way for most people. From one of your earlier posts, it appeared as though you may have struggled to make sense of it all at the same time.
So, you're still struggling with understanding the teachings of Jesus from his own words and parables?
"The Evangelical Attraction to Mysticism" The article devotes its last section to thirteen reasons why mysticism is not compatible with true Evangelical Christianity:
It confuses the Imago Dei (the Image of God) with the Essentia Dei (Essence of God)
It undermines the need for a structured local church
It intrudes into forbidden areas of spiritual life
It creates a breed of "Christian" superbeings
It is intensely synergistic
It renders void the need for forensic justification
It denies the substitutionary atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ
It undermines the need for the Incarnation
It pretends that it is selfless but it is in fact an example of the ultimate in self-centeredness
It bases its assurance on extreme subjectivism
It inevitably leads to false ecumenism
It inexorably moves towards interfaithism
It is a manifestation of the original satanic lie at the beginning of human history
You brought up Meister Echkart as someone exuding ego in his claims of Union.
it was your own projection that he was speaking from ego.
"Jew like himself" literally means nothing to me.
That's not true. If the Atonement is real and genuine for all of the sins (or some say Karma) of the world, then that stands of its own accord and weight no matter what anyone says or does.
reply to post by eight bits
So, I didn't bring up the topic of Eckhart's plainly visible and paralyzing self-absorption, rather I disagreed with what you had already said about the subject, when you had used him as your featured and quoted example.
I didn't say or imply that he was "speaking from" his ego. I showed that his words were evidence of a functioning ego, as opposed to a "slain" one or one lost in union with another being. He is, quite literally, placing himself at the center of the Universe. He is describing the view from there.
(that Sigh) as some heavy hearted sadness for how inferior other people's understanding is, compared with your own.
You might want to look at some of the recent work of Stanford's Tanya Marie Luhrmann in this regard, focusing on the "Vineyard" movement.
reply to post by Deetermined
What do you mean by "if"? If you look at this as an "if" statement, then you can't be a true believer of Christ.
You've mixed so many religions together that you just "watered down" (as you would say) the main teaching of why we're even able to abide with God in the first place in the kingdom of God after this life is over.
I'm only going to leave you with these verses... Colossians 2:16-19
I Mixed them because most of it is Perenial Wisdom that does not belong to any religions/divisions and I know Jesus would approve of alot of it. Paul saying "I die to the Self Daily",Jesus saying "Pick up your cross and come follow me" is all ego death based, of which Hindu, Nondual, Greek, and Buddhist Philosophies have hundreds of books on the science of Ego/self. It's universal.
Originally posted by mojo2012
OP have you ever played around with the idea that some areas of the bible are for showing what will not work? jesus went back on what moses taught about an eye for an eye. try using that logic on other areas, even whole stories
You didn't even understand one word I said when you wrote this reply. It's not just about the death of the ego and picking up your cross. It's understanding why Jesus came here to die in the first place. Do you even know why Christ died on the cross to forgive us of our sins? Do you even know why Christ said he was the way, the truth and the life?
I'll leave w/ one too then: 1 John 2:27 But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don't need anyone to teach you what is true.
The teachings were mystical and have to do with Personal enlightenment and personal access to God & redemption through his teachings, techniques, etc. Sadly, the same Ego based system that Jesus was fighting (Pharisees & Saducees) is the exact same systems that took over the Christian Churches.
Deuteronomy 32:8, From the Dead Sea Scrolls
"When El Elyon gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he separated the sons of men,
he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.
For Yahweh's portion is his people,
Jacob his allotted inheritance."
26 I said, I would scatter them into corners,
I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men:
27 Were it not that I feared the wrath of the enemy,
lest their adversaries should behave themselves strangely,
and lest they should say, Our hand is high, and the Lord hath not done all this.
1. Psalm of Asaph. God stands in the council of the gods; he judges among the gods.
2. How long will you judge unjustly, and show preference to the wicked? Selah.
3. Judge the poor and the orphans; do righteousness to the afflicted and dispossessed.
4. Deliver the poor and oppressed; save them from the hand of the evil.
5. They do not know and they have no understanding; they walk about in darkness. All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6. I said, “You are gods, and children of Elyon, every one of you.”
7. But you will die like mortals, and fall like one of the princes.
Think about what you just said here. What were Jesus' "techniques" that he taught? I'm pretty sure they didn't include practicing mysticism.
Jesus said that he was THE way to God. That anyone who tried to get to God some other way was a thief and a robber.
Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Aesir26
You do know that Satan is referred to "as the god of this world" throughout the whole Bible? Because more people choose to follow the ways of Satan than God's commandments?
Probably not, since you aren't reading the rest of the text.
Edit to add: Anytime you see "god" in lower case, it is not referring to God the Father.
edit on 3-12-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)