reply to post by jmdewey60
I believe in Jesus, and he did have the knowledge of the real God, and His spirit, and gave that spirit to the Apostles to found the church,
including producing the New Testament.
The OT was prone to manipulation and it was, up until a final version was made by the Jews in the Fourth Century AD.
Quite. Good, so we've established that some of us agree that the OT was manipulated to suit the "victors" or the "conquerors" or whatever. A tribal
deity. That's what I understand as well.
Christians believe their god is all knowing and all powerful. Are you saying this is incorrect?
I agree with that statement. Christians do believe that; nearly to a one. Jmdewey, I'm aware that you have studied these things at a very
sophisticated and scholarly level, and so when you said:
Yes. All that was made up in Medieval times and is not from the Bible. The OT god was a tribal deity of Canaan.
"All that" Medieval make-believe is what the vast majority of current practicing Christians do
believe, to my knowledge. And that this
all-knowing, all-powerful, overarching GOD is waiting to judge everyone and send them after a brief introduction to either a paradisaical "Heaven" to
dwell forever, or the fiery pits of "Hell", therein to burn forever.
Further, many believe that while every human DESERVES this "Hell", (thanks to Adam and Eve's obstreperousness, which no living person had anything to
then Jesus came and fixed it all up, BUT -- there's still the very strong possibility that he didn't fix it permanently, because "free-will" and the
acts of Adam and Eve made every human sinners - incapable of good behavior -
and with no help for it (every human will SURELY fail to live up to the impossible expectations of their GOD) except OBEDIENCE to rules that men have
written down, changed around, added, taken away, and revised over the millennia, and the hope that Jesus will return and save everybody.
If there are Christian sects who don't recite and believe the
, they are rare. Here it is as I recited it,
this is the first translation of it on the wiki page link.
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of Life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
There are other versions of it, but, according to this history of it
(also a wiki link, which led
to the above link:
The Nicene Creed has been normative for the Anglican Church, the Church of the East, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Oriental Orthodox churches,
the Roman Catholic Church including the Eastern Catholic Churches, the Old Catholic Church, the Lutheran Church and many Protestant denominations,
forming the eponymous mainstream definition of Christianity itself in Nicene Christianity.
Please, jmdewey, show us where this parted company with the omniscient, all-powerful God The Father who will judge us all.
edit on 4-12-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)