US soldier in WikiLeaks case says he was held in a 'cage' , page 1

A US Army private facing court-martial on suspicion of leaking secret documents to the WikiLeaks website testified that he was confined to a "cage" in the early days after his arrest in 2010, and thought he would die there. Bradley Manning, in his first public comments since his arrest in Iraq, said his isolation led to a rapid decline in his awareness of his surroundings.

LINK

It looks like the USA Army could be tormenting their own to get confessions ?
On one hand I think they know he was the person who leaked the info and had to make him confess , on the other hand using cold war techniques to get a confession is a bit over the top .
What say you guys

reply to post by pillock

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I don't know as much as I should about this. Did what he do ever cause the deaths of any fellow soldiers? Nevertheless, I think this is more about the military being embarrassed over what was leaked than what the direct consequences of the leaks were.
They had plenty to be embarrassed about.

Sounds similar to the torture box the US used against Libyans

www.wired.com...

The US gov sucks.

reply to post by superman2012

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The honest answer is that there is no way to ever know. He basically document dumped the entire database for after action reports on Iraq and Afghanistan (with all names on all sides) as well as the State Department message traffic for years and really. pieces going back much further. It took entire staffs at media outlets weeks and months to fully read and digest everything he simply opened the spigot on and flowed out the backdoor. Some commend him but I look at the fact he freely joined, continued to serve and was trusted day in and day out by the men he did this next to. He didn't take a public stand and declare the war is wrong and HERE is the evidence. He just slipped all he had access to compromise out in the cover of darkness and then hid until he was ferreted out by investigators.

The damage he did alone to diplomatic relations between nations is really beyond imagining and wouldn't ya know, the oddest thing....entire regions of the world HAVE just thrown in the whole towel rack on trying diplomatic anything. Hard to say how many got killed...but he didn't have any clue..and physically couldn't have by sheer volume...what he was releasing. If none died as a direct result, it was by no deliberate action on his part.

My opinion on this guy doesn't make me any friends among many, but he's just a traitor in my view. Nothing more...and perhaps even less. Nothing to hold up though. Men take stands and pay whatever price there is to pay for that. Traitors hide and have to be pulled into the light, like him.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

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I agree he is a traitor . But ask yourself why a lowly private was was in a position to have access to all this information ?
This seems like a cluster F@%k of monumental proportions .

reply to post by Trustfund

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I dont know, the "cage" as he describes it really sounds more like a makeshift prison cell. The boxes the Libyans describe are torture boxes plain and simple.

I just wonder what this guy expected, a hotel room ? He had to be confined in some way, he was a prisoner.


Strict

reply to post by pillock

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I think I found some answers and additional insight I hadn't seen before myself. Ever seen the chat logs manning himself had with the guy who turned him in? They are.....enlightening. They do answer quite a bit. A couple highlights though...

(02:13:51 AM) Lamo: Why does your job afford you access?
(02:13:59 AM) Lamo: except for the UN.
(02:14:03 AM) Manning: because i have a workstation
(02:14:15 AM) Lamo: and World Bank.
(02:14:17 AM) Manning: *had*
(02:14:36 AM) Lamo: So you have these stored now?
(02:14:54 AM) Manning: i had two computers… one connected to SIPRNET the other to JWICS…
(02:15:07 AM) Manning: no, they’re government laptops

(1:40:20 PM) Manning: ive been so isolated so long… i just wanted to be nice, and live a normal life… but events kept forcing me to figure out ways to survive… smart enough to know whats going on, but helpless to do anything… no-one took any notice of me
(1:40:43 PM) Manning: :’(
(1:43:51 PM) Lamo: back
(1:43:59 PM) Manning: im self medicating like crazy when im not toiling in the supply office (my new location, since im being discharged, im not offically intel anymore)

Hmm.. Interesting on that last part.... Self medicating?

(03:39:17 PM) Manning: im not a bad person, i keep track of everything
(03:39:30 PM) Manning: i watch the whole thing unfold… from a distance
(03:40:07 PM) Manning: i read what everyone says… look at pictures… keep tabs… and feel for them
(03:40:18 PM) Manning: since im basically playing a vital role in their life
(03:40:29 PM) Manning: without ever meeting them
(03:40:53 PM) Manning: i was like that as an intelligence analyst as well
(03:41:09 PM) Lamo: i know the feeling, in a way.
(03:41:44 PM) Manning: most didnt care… but i knew, i was playing a role in the lives of hundreds of people, without them knowing them… but i cared, and kept track of some of the details, make sure everybody was okay

Source - Wired Magazine 06/2010

.....and I thought having a God complex was just a Doctor thing. ugh...

It's a very loooong series of chat logs but I read all of it. It definitely does give insight and reinforces your point actually. Just what in the name of security was someone with his mindset doing in Intelligence work? ....and I've heard estimates between 225,000 cables and 250,000 cables. He was specific in saying 260,000. Call me a stickler for little details...but that leaves the public record 10,000 short and he was an intel guy. Precision in speech was just a way of life for him. Hmm.. I wonder on that...

It doesn't change much if not actually make things worse IMO though. Reading his thoughts as he typed them out makes him human in a way the regular news stories don't, but the sort of human I'd just want to punch in the nose I think.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

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I believe that, psychologically speaking, his illusions about what purpose the US military served were gradually eroded. His perspective changed, ultimately past a tipping point where he (correctly) realized that such classification/compartmentalization procedures were being used predominately to hide crimes, opposed to protect legitimate military knowledge. By this point he was firmly embedded in the machine. No way out (and remember, he tried many times to get out, with no success).

He saw the double-edged sword, judged that the darker side was far sharper than the light side, and acted.

When people call him a traitor they either forget or ignore that there were massive crimes being covered up, and likely would never have surfaced if it weren't for his actions.

In the great context, the people threatened by such a leak already had blood on their hands for being a part of the most wicked military machine this world has known for thousands of years, perhaps ever. I doubt he saw this perspective but it is a fact nonetheless and relevant.

Eta - likewise, I know that such a statement will not make me many friends

Originally posted by Son of Will
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

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I believe that, psychologically speaking, his illusions about what purpose the US military served were gradually eroded. His perspective changed, ultimately past a tipping point where he (correctly) realized that such classification/compartmentalization procedures were being used predominately to hide crimes, opposed to protect legitimate military knowledge. By this point he was firmly embedded in the machine. No way out (and remember, he tried many times to get out, with no success).

He saw the double-edged sword, judged that the darker side was far sharper than the light side, and acted.

When people call him a traitor they either forget or ignore that there were massive crimes being covered up, and likely would never have surfaced if it weren't for his actions.

In the great context, the people threatened by such a leak already had blood on their hands for being a part of the most wicked military machine this world has known for thousands of years, perhaps ever. I doubt he saw this perspective but it is a fact nonetheless and relevant.

Eta - likewise, I know that such a statement will not make me many friends

edit on 30-11-2012 by Son of Will because: (no reason given)

You know, I've thought more about this since reading the chat logs. It really is informative to read the nuances and subtle things about thought process that are shown in a chat. I can't much argue with your first paragraph except to the last part. There are absolutely ways out of the U.S. Army and oh..there are MANY ways out of the world of Military Intelligence. It's not like infantry, as I understand things. It takes intelligence and work to get into it and like most things in life, I'm sure has some pretty clear lines of conduct where crossing would get you out of it. He wasn't trapped until he got where he is now. Now, he knows trapped..... It's just complicated as you note, by motives.


Now I call him a traitor, not for being against the war or even HARD against the war. In Uniform or out. That's no grounds for saying someone is a traitor, and this isn't Vietnam where that kind of propaganda is playing for either side much anyway. So he could have been anti-war all he wanted. I wouldn't even have called him a traitor, although a crime would have to be answered for, if he'd broken classification with just SOME or ONE major report/incident/cover up and the whole truckload of goods on it. That would describe Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers. That is a stand taken I deeply respect and he had guts of steel given the Government and Intelligence world at that point in time.


Now on the last part, I couldn't disagree more. He document dumped the whole SIPRNET Database at Secret Level/NOFORN and below to the areas he could find of interest to throw out to the world. If someone hasn't read the cables and reports, as we're all not legally supposed to....uh huh..yeah right...(innocent smile) .. Then you'd know he burned EVERYONE. From PFC nobody from Iowa to Iraqi's slipping some info that may have saved lives. It was reported and I have NO doubt about it, that insurgent groups and Al Qaeda read over everything released VERY carefully. I'm SURE they did. Much had tactical details and again, names that are of trivial "Hey Neat!" type interest to Americans but life and death to people DURING the war he was releasing it about.

The State Department stuff literally tore up and destroyed decades of work between nations diplomatically. It wasn't simply what U.S. Officials said, reported and thought of others when they didn't know about it.....it's what was said TO the United States and reported back to State as routine traffic and ...what the State Department is THERE for. Nothing nefarious here...but still, Secret is there for a reason and NOFORN is a very important distinction. That violation did immense ...IMMMENSE...damage world wide for who knows how many years to come on trust and Good Faith. Clinton's effectiveness as Secretary of State may as well have ended in many ways when that all broke, thanks to Manning.

Without diplomacy, war is what man WILL turn to. Consider that in context to what he did. He sure didn't.

Originally posted by pillock
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

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I agree he is a traitor . But ask yourself why a lowly private was was in a position to have access to all this information ?
This seems like a cluster F@%k of monumental proportions .

Uh...yes I agree.Granting access to Intel of importance to a scrub was stupid,no doudt.One would think they would have assigned an officer or intellegence services member.Also if I were the private I'd be more worried about a firing squad than my"cage"

Originally posted by AgentX09

Originally posted by pillock
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

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I agree he is a traitor . But ask yourself why a lowly private was was in a position to have access to all this information ?
This seems like a cluster F@%k of monumental proportions .

Uh...yes I agree.Granting access to Intel of importance to a scrub was stupid,no doudt.One would think they would have assigned an officer or intellegence services member.Also if I were the private I'd be more worried about a firing squad than my"cage"

You've go to understand that having rank is not necessarily a requirement to have access to a sensitive area. It comes down to the job that one is doing. Although I dont know his specific MOS, he was functioning in some sort of Intel capacity, so his job required him to have more access than the average enlisted. Be it E1, E8, O1, O5 ... you're going to have whatever clearance and access your job requires, and that is it. As a civilian working as a military contractor, I have a clearance that grants me access to information that some military personnel cannot get to, simply because of the job I do.

reply to post by flyswatter

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He was a Specialist before being caught and busted to PFC and his MOS was 35F, Intelligence Analyst.

Intelligence specialists use information derived from all intelligence disciplines to determine changes in enemy capabilities, vulnerabilities, and probable courses of action. The Intelligence Analyst is primarily responsible for supervising, coordinating and participating in the analysis, processing and distribution of strategic and tactical intelligence.

Source - Army MOS Descriptions

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by flyswatter

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He was a Specialist before being caught and busted to PFC and his MOS was 35F, Intelligence Analyst.

Intelligence specialists use information derived from all intelligence disciplines to determine changes in enemy capabilities, vulnerabilities, and probable courses of action. The Intelligence Analyst is primarily responsible for supervising, coordinating and participating in the analysis, processing and distribution of strategic and tactical intelligence.

Source - Army MOS Descriptions

Aye, not at all uncommon for someone of his rank to be doing that job and have that sort of access. I know that if I were to do the same kind of thing he did, I'd be rotting in in a small hole in jail for the rest of my life, and rightfully so. He needs to just go away and never be heard from again. Traitor, and scum.

reply to post by pillock

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Poor baby. Someone get him a bottle of milk.

Traitorous bastard.

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