The new budget offer from the White House is unbelievable!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Actually you are right, but you failed to see that the banking system mobsters in Wall Street has been running the fed and Americas government for a long time, they are the ones that have made the mistakes due to greed and then bail out themselves with Americas tax dollars, see, is no such thing as a honest investment man, they are there to make money and if they lose any of the their personal wealth that is what their trusting investors are for, to fill their coffers so they can run away with the loot.

That is happening right now, they don't have to run a party, that will create an angry mob in the US, they just have their infinite Fed system to keep the treasury printing for them, just remember what the Q1,2, and 3s, are for, is money directly from the treasury to the fed and from the Fed to Wall Street bankers, all for the good of the nation and national security of peoples investments, and the American people believe all that scam.

The bozos in congress will increase the debt ceiling, they will pass legislation, and the burden of debt will fall again on the tax payer, because after they care,(or that is what they are trying to sell to the gullible trusting public) what is going on is a pony show, after all the crocks in congress will still be reelected for their congressional seats and the trash recycles as usual when it comes to big interest in the nation.

So how long before they take my 401k under their control and 'restructure' things so that they spend it and give me an IOU for the money?

just one step closer to a ecomomic collapse. ...Argentina 2001

When they start talking about fixing things it always ends with the word taxes. When you hear that word be prepared to see the same old parlor trick where they steal your wallet and never give it back. You can change the channel to Family Guy where you can laugh and cry at the same time only it's a cartoon version of the same thing.

reply to post by butcherguy


Hello butcherguy, check the financial news they are setting the table to do redefine your 401K this year.


In the fine print of the 401K rules you agreed to let them decide if and when you needed to have "your" money.


The act of taking the gift of deferring taxes due on your current earnings created a right of the government to help you manage your savings which has now been expanded to include the governments right to borrow your
savings.

Your savings and the accumulated tax deferred you thought you had on deposit will soon be coverted into a promise to pay at a recalulated lower interest rate, if they can find the money.

reply to post by whatwasthat
Yep, they set the table and encouraged us to put 'meat on the table', so to speak.

Now they'll shoo us out the door and dine on our 'food'.

Sooner or later, there won't be any money left to rob from us.

Originally posted by sean
When they start talking about fixing things it always ends with the word taxes. When you hear that word be prepared to see the same old parlor trick where they steal your wallet and never give it back. You can change the channel to Family Guy where you can laugh and cry at the same time only it's a cartoon version of the same thing.

To fix the trillion dollar deficit we're going to have to increase taxes and decrease spending. It's the only mathematically sound way of doing it.

All you republicans do is bitch and moan about taxes, yet offer no spending cuts....
Let's hear a trillion dollars worth of spending cuts.....we're still waiting.

reply to post by Ghost375

Both parties have mentioned where they would like to cut spending.

The thing is, each party wants to cut spending on things that would offend the base of the other party. That's called politics.

Politics have gotten us where we are right now. If you look at Obama's proposed budget, it is nothing more than 'kicking the can down the road', with a request that he be allowed to continue to do so.

Let's hear a trillion dollars worth of spending cuts.....we're still waiting.

I think the proposed Obama budget spends more money.... Doesn't it?

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by Ghost375
What the hell is wrong with you guys?

It's Congress that is supposed to pass budgets, not the President!

You should be mad at Congress for failing to do their job!

Not Obama for stepping in because Congress isn't doing theirs!

The hate for this one man is blinding you from reality.

Is Obama NOT taking full advantage to spread his "type" of Government, at behest of the very congress that fails every American, as I type?

I cant see ANY reason, why all of them shouldn't be thrown out. But before anyone can strictly blame Congress or the GOP in particular, remember its Obama's "Party" that doesn't even vote for his Budgets.

All Obama is doing is trying to get taxes raised on the top 2%. And he's not even asking for that big of an increase. Stop listening to Fox News and you'd realize that's not socialism. He's also agreed to cutting spending, which is what republicans want. It's pretty illogical of the republicans to force Obama to come up with the cuts, when it's what they want. So no, Obama isn't trying to "spread his type of government."

Um, they can't vote in the senate because the democrats don't have a super majority in the senate, so the republicans can filibuster....and the republicans control the house, so yeah. Plus I was criticizing all of congress. I love how you assume I'm talking about the GOP, then you immediately criticize the democrats...Your bias is showing....
Just because I don't let my hate for Obama blind me from the facts, doesn't mean I'm pro-Obama.
I'm pro-truth, that's all.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Ghost375

 

Both parties have mentioned where they would like to cut spending.

The thing is, each party wants to cut spending on things that would offend the base of the other party. That's called politics.

Politics have gotten us where we are right now. If you look at Obama's proposed budget, it is nothing more than 'kicking the can down the road', with a request that he be allowed to continue to do so.

proof of your claim?

and you still don't get it. It's NOT Obama's job to come up with the budget. That's Congress' job. You're all letting your hate for Obama mislead you.

reply to post by Ghost375

I don't like any politicians. Do you know one the gives a crap what happens to you?

Both parties are guilty of causing our current financial situation. They've done it on our backs.

To address your budget statement, the POTUS has historically submitted a budget proposal, it is called leadership. It is the responsibility of Congress to approve spending. Would you rather the President have no interest in how federal money is budgeted?

Obama's tax plan is a farce. It does not close the deficit and we all know this! It is purely symbolic and has no substance and offers no relief.

I am with the other poster above. How about you put all the planned expenditures on the table and show us a trillion dollars in cuts...I don't think they can do it...and they def don't want to do it.

The truth is, the people we are asking to solve the problem...ARE THE PROBLEM! They make sure their lobbyist buddies and their criminal friends in the Military industrial complex, Wall Street and subsidized big oil and other mega corporations are well financed...and in doing so..."they gonna get some"...

You cannot expect a fox to guard the hen house.

Maybe "we the people" need to demand a public disclosure of Government spending down to the last dime...and that means "black ops" too...disclose it...it is OUR money. That way "we the people" can for once see where our money actually goes and "we the people" can decide if we want to continue spending there. Maybe we need to cut some really stupid crap and maybe there are better places to spend "our" money.

I think we would all be shocked and horrified if we actually knew where our money was being spent.

There is no intent by the administration to fix the budget problem - all one has to do is look at what is presented to figure out they're not serious - its all re-arranging deck chairs as the ship sinks.

The democrats will blame republicans for across the board tax increases and lets not forget AMT tax is going to hurt a lot of families it was never intended for.

Once higher rates kick in across the board the dems will be in hog heaven because they can propose targeted legislation to favored groups of taxpayers layered into bills having extra-constitutional provisions and readily point fingers at republicans almost endlessly as they shoot down legislation.

It should not matter what party one identifies with to understand the ramifications, the ship is going down and the crew is doing nothing to save it - as a passenger you better start thinking how you are going to save yourself.

Originally posted by Ghost375
All Obama is doing is trying to get taxes raised on the top 2%. And he's not even asking for that big of an increase. Stop listening to Fox News and you'd realize that's not socialism. He's also agreed to cutting spending, which is what republicans want. It's pretty illogical of the republicans to force Obama to come up with the cuts, when it's what they want. So no, Obama isn't trying to "spread his type of government."

Um, they can't vote in the senate because the democrats don't have a super majority in the senate, so the republicans can filibuster....and the republicans control the house, so yeah. Plus I was criticizing all of congress. I love how you assume I'm talking about the GOP, then you immediately criticize the democrats...Your bias is showing....
Just because I don't let my hate for Obama blind me from the facts, doesn't mean I'm pro-Obama.
I'm pro-truth, that's all.

edit on 1-12-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

Almost every single defense of Obama you laid out is factually incorrect!

For starters, the tax increases Obama wants would affect just about EVERY tax-payer, not just the top 2%. Mortgage interest deduction limited or gone - affects virtually every homeowner. Medical device tax = everyone. Increase on investment tax affects anyone with a 401K, and IRA, a pension etc... = a HUGE percentage of the middle class. Healthcare tax = EVERYONE! Energy tax increases = everyone! The list continues...

He has NEVER once proposed a single spending cut - NOT ONE! In fact, the only "Cut" he has actually discussed in any detail is cutting the amount that Medicare/Medicaid would reimburse doctors and hospitals for care provided. Do you know the result of that so far? Thousands of doctors and hospitals nationwide have stopped accepting medicare/Medicaid patients. How long does anyone reasonably expect a business to continue providing services at a loss? This is going to bankrupt the healthcare industry!

Beyond that, the "Cuts" that you refer to are merely cuts in future increases! So, in essence, spending still INCREASES, just not as much. So, YES... Obama most certainly is propagating HIS form of government - bigger, more expensive, more expansive, more intrusive and more damaging to our founding principles. To suggest otherwise is morally and intellectually disingenuous!

I'd also like to add that the proposed tax increases amount to $1.6Trillion over 10 years, or only $160Billion a year. For all 4 years of Obama's presidency, the annual deficit has been at or above $1.1Trillion per year. His proposal only covers about 12% of the deficit spending and still leaves us with an almost $1Trillion annual deficit - not including future increases.

So Obama's plan amounts to continued deficit spending, no cuts, more taxes and more regulation. Who in the hell honestly believes that this will help the country or the economy? I'd love to hear the twisted attempts at applying logic to defend this.

reply to post by Ghost375

Tax increases on the 2% will only run the U.S. government for 8 1/2 days.
I like the idea of Republicans agreeing to those tax increases for Americans making 500k+...in exchange for Obama agreeing to a proportional increase in taxes for non-military federal employees' government pensions.

Originally posted by kozmo
I'd also like to add that the proposed tax increases amount to $1.6Trillion over 10 years, or only $160Billion a year. For all 4 years of Obama's presidency, the annual deficit has been at or above $1.1Trillion per year. His proposal only covers about 12% of the deficit spending and still leaves us with an almost $1Trillion annual deficit - not including future increases.

Future increases will be covered when Obamacare kicks in, in full in 2014, assuming we survive 2013 of course.

The largest tax increase in our future history will be then, and if you are looking for a real cliff for this country to fall off of, that would be it. If there is any recovery between now and then, it will not be long lived. That is going to be the greatest job killer of all.

Also what are average employed young uninsured Americans going to do when they are forced to pay for this through the IRS?

Can it get better before it gets worse?

You ain't seen nothing yet...

Originally posted by Ghost375

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by Ghost375
What the hell is wrong with you guys?

It's Congress that is supposed to pass budgets, not the President!

You should be mad at Congress for failing to do their job!

Not Obama for stepping in because Congress isn't doing theirs!

The hate for this one man is blinding you from reality.

Is Obama NOT taking full advantage to spread his "type" of Government, at behest of the very congress that fails every American, as I type?

I cant see ANY reason, why all of them shouldn't be thrown out. But before anyone can strictly blame Congress or the GOP in particular, remember its Obama's "Party" that doesn't even vote for his Budgets.

All Obama is doing is trying to get taxes raised on the top 2%. And he's not even asking for that big of an increase. Stop listening to Fox News and you'd realize that's not socialism. He's also agreed to cutting spending, which is what republicans want. It's pretty illogical of the republicans to force Obama to come up with the cuts, when it's what they want. So no, Obama isn't trying to "spread his type of government."

Um, they can't vote in the senate because the democrats don't have a super majority in the senate, so the republicans can filibuster....and the republicans control the house, so yeah. Plus I was criticizing all of congress. I love how you assume I'm talking about the GOP, then you immediately criticize the democrats...Your bias is showing....
Just because I don't let my hate for Obama blind me from the facts, doesn't mean I'm pro-Obama.
I'm pro-truth, that's all.

edit on 1-12-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

I hate to point this out but it's too glaring to pass over. Your post has a few major points that are factually incorrect on the face of it.

First, there is no filibuster of Budget bills. They are handled under a special set of rules in the U.S. Senate.

“He’s not saying that they shouldn’t pass a budget," Lew continued. "But we also need to be honest. You can’t pass a budget in the Senate of the United States without 60 votes and you can't get 60 votes without bipartisan support."

Yet as the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities explains, a budget resolution "requires only a majority vote to pass, and its consideration is one of the few actions that cannot be filibustered in the Senate."

UPDATE: It can't be dismissed as a one off misstatement -- here is Lew saying the same thing on NBC's "Meet the Press." This is clearly a White House talking point to portray Republicans as obstructionists that's based on a completely false premise.

Source

Given the update, I have to say the White House needs to work on the honesty issues of it's people. Obama may or may not have a thing to do with it.....but they have some outright liars on staff and it's getting outrageous by how open and on what straight points of law and process it's now being done with. White lies on events? Sure. This is black better procedure though.


On the first point, Obama is talking taxes taxes and more taxes. As usual. Spending cuts? Hmm.. something about that...but nothing more detailed. Yeah, that is normal as well and about useless to negotiate with.

What he is doing though is what I made the entire OP about and you've glossed over entirely. What the White House WOULD seem to be doing is trying to get the Congressional authority over debt ceiling limits curtailed or outright removed in this process. That......just can't happen.


If one reads......and reads everything out there on this.... Debt limit increase legislation has as much formed "budgets" over the last few years as anything in the absence of any real U.S. Budget in place. So, changing who has control over that? Yeah ..... There is a problem here and taxes have little or nothing to do with it.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Where is your budget plan Wrabbit?

There isn't any budget plan worth mentioning......16 trillion in debt, going to be 20 in a couple years. Mandatory spending outweighs any tax increases.

The US is financially bankrupt.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

I'm actually a closet devotee of Libertarian ideology.

If I was American, I would have voted for Ron Paul. If the Libertarian party had a legitimate chance at winning the executive office, I would probably vote for it.

But the reason I call myself 'closeted' is due to other issues - mostly foreign - which afflict our era.

Ideally, capitalism works. Free markets work; trade agreements - especially the ones created by the IMF and world bank, are horribly exploitative, and need to be recalled.

But then there's the intractable (though still hardly recognized) crisis of our times: Islamism - that certainly justifies a modification in our political perspectives.

But I won't get into that. You first have to be acquainted with the nature and scope of that threat in order to come to a reasonable conclusion as to how to confront it, while still honoring basic libertarian principles.

Not an easy balance.

edit on 1-12-2012 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

Thanks for making your position clear. Pro-zionism and pro-capitalism= republican party

Libertarianism is only for free market capitalism. Even I dislike libertarianism, but offered it as a choice to seperate the zionists from the non-zionists. In any case I belive both are flawed in some or many ways.

Luckely for you, 99.5% of the popular vote is right wing. I count the demcrats as such eventhough they are center right. What I consider left is green party and socialist parties.