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The new budget offer from the White House is unbelievable!

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posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by MidnightTide
It is only a matter of time when the Obama administration will start to look at peoples 401k.

business.time.com...


False....not just any person's 401K:


Meanwhile, the Tax Policy Center in Washington has found that about 80% of retirement savings benefits flow to the top 20% of earners. Eliminating the deduction for retirement savings would hit the well-off disproportionately, a condition with a lot of appeal in the current political climate.


In other words, the wealthy will remain secure....the working class will be F@%^$*(^




posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Isn't it wonderful?

A fiscal cliff looms on taxes.

The Sequestration looms.

The debt ceiling is going to max out in just a few weeks.

And people are worried about December 21st, 2012.




The 21st is the last Friday before Christmas.
This session of congress ends on the third but the last effective day will be the 2nd and it's not likely they will get much done. Most politicians will still be hung over (or in jail) from new years.
You can expect the 21st to be a bad day because the US Congress will likely make the worst decision ever so they can "avoid the fiscal cliff" and get home for a long holiday.

I predict a bout of sheer stupidity in congress will be the catalyst that destroys the US economy and ultimately topples the worlds stability, plunging us into global chaos.

The Mayans weren't real specific so I'm trying to help out with the prognostication stuff.



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 08:17 PM
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Its time for the GOP to allow every one of Obamas proposals to come to a vote.
They can then just vote "Present" and allow the bills to pass with no obstruction and no responsibility for the fallout.
Its time for America to see what it voted for.
Its time for America to see what the GOP has been protecting it from.
Sure its gonna hurt but its time for these Democrat weasels to squirm.
Obama will OWN the tax increase on ALL Americans.
Obama will OWN the ever increasing debt and its about time.
No more blaming Bush, its time to let him sink and take the 53% of idiots that voted for him down with him.



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 08:22 PM
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reply to post by NorEaster
 

You've raised a good point that deserves an answer.

Ever hear of a conference call? How about email or cell phones? They have web conferencing too. You old guys really need to get with this new century of mobile communications.

Oh...and Obama isn't a Senator or a House Rep. He doesn't vote on bills or sit on a House or Senate subcommittee. He's not part of the process that the Congress faces. All he can do is shame those idiots into doing their jobs, and that's all he can do. The rest is done by them and their staffs.
That's all correct, but I'm not sure it's complete. Why should Obama bother giving a speech to the UN in person? He can do it by recording. Why bother helicoptering into New Jersey after Sandy hit? His staff can handle everything without him going in and tying up traffic and using necessary people and supplies. Why do platoon leaders get fragged if they don't go into battle with their troops.

I'll grant you that it may be a little vague, but shaking hands, looking people in the eye, being there in person in times of crisis, is just the "right" thing to do. Besides, as Clinton or Reagan would tell us, the personal touch is essential in politics. It just isn't the same, it doesn't work right, to phone in. He's saying, "I'm on vacation, but I suppose I can make some time for you." It sends a wrong message.

Also, when I was a Sgt in the USAF, I had 30 days leave every single year. The Army also gives its people 30 days of leave each year. I have no idea what army you were an officer in, but it must not have been the US Army.

It's so easy to make empty claims on the Internet. Of course, you should be careful to know what it is that you're talking about, so that someone can't come along and expose your ignorance.
That's not a fight you needed to pick. Besides, you don't know his situation. Some duty assignments allow for little leave. And if you're one of a few people who can provide a service which is widely needed, you go. Anywhere and as long as you're needed. There may be a policy of 30 days leave, I don't know. But it's certainly not a law the military has to follow.



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 08:33 PM
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reply to post by Skywatcher2011
 


Lets face it, the system is corrupt and those at the top will always benefit. I am well aware of this....just I get a little peeved when the left always just points at the rich. Yes, they have ample share in this economic mess, but there are also the entitlements that play their part.



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by NorEaster
Ever hear of a conference call? How about email or cell phones? They have web conferencing too. You old guys really need to get with this new century of mobile communications.


Ahh, classic. You remind me of the junior officers I'd have who considered email a leadership style... Those things are tools that a leader uses to communicate with his/her subordinates. They do not and never will replace the value of face to face leadership by example.

Example: A leader does not take 17 damn days of leave in the middle of a tense crisis period or even during a key time and say "well, I'll have my cell if you need me but you better have this fixed when I get back"...
"Hey, I'll be at my place in Hawaii, you scrubs need to solve our organizations problems before I get back..."

A leader takes charge of the process or crisis and shepards the organization through it - he owns the process and the outcome. He does not distance himself from it so that if it goes bad he can blame his subordinates for not fixing it. That is the POTUS's MO. I'll make no decisions and leave it to others so I can claim the credit if it goes well and if not I can say I delegated it to people who couldn't achieve results.


Originally posted by NorEaster
All he can do is shame those idiots into doing their jobs, and that's all he can do. The rest is done by them and their staffs.


If that is your view of "leadership" I can't imagine how you even made E4... Then again everyone makes E4.


Originally posted by NorEaster
Also, when I was a Sgt in the USAF, I had 30 days leave every single year. The Army also gives its people 30 days of leave each year. I have no idea what army you were an officer in, but it must not have been the US Army.


Again, while an E4 might be able to take 14+ days of consecutive leave this does not happen for leaders in senior positions. Perhaps if you are between positions at PCS time... I am talking consecutive days off not cumulative time off in a year. The POTUS vacations more than 30 days a year for sure while most Americans are lucky to get 10 a year period. I cherish the time I had in the Army. I own my own business now and have not taken more than 7 days vacation a year since I retired. I have all the money I would need to go wherever I want but the thing I lack is time.

I was lucky to get any leave at all when I was in a command position and even as a senior staff officer I never got more than one work week off (two weekends and a work week might be an option that is 9 days) at a time - I doubt you have any idea the level of complexity required to lead an organization of 500+ Soldiers.


Originally posted by NorEaster
It's so easy to make empty claims on the Internet. Of course, you should be careful to know what it is that you're talking about, so that someone can't come along and expose your ignorance.


While I appreciate that you must have a wealth of experience and knowledge about leadership of large organizations gained as an E4 in the Air Force...nah that's not true, you clearly don't have a clue.

I think that having Commanded a large organization during war I'll stick with my own knowledge of leadership and what it is. I am comfortable that I know what I am talking about. I'll debate an E4 about leadership any time.

Perhaps someday you will have an idea as well...

Cheers.
edit on 30/11/2012 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)
edit on 30/11/2012 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 09:42 PM
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Wow.

Seems were right on the road to socialism. More taxes to fund more state services - ending congressional oversight over statutory borrowing limits. Seems were on the road to full centralization. And this will undoubtedly lead to further government bailouts, which will lead to a government control of industry. If my memory serves me correctly, this is the exact same process described by Hayek in 'road to serfdom' which led to the socialist states that preceded the Nazi takeover.

As Touqueville pointed out - and as leftists don't seem to comprehend - equality comes at the cost of freedom. Economic equality means giving full control to one group. It means you have to trust the people within this one group. What if this one group serves a liberalizing agenda? What if it has a plan to destroy the Judeo-Christian ethic and theology through educational reform? Control of the media? It's not that capitalism doesn't have it's problems - I agree - but the power of socialism is so great that if it's not checked by something else, who will check it? This is why capitalism - despite the inequality it creates - is ironically the only system which supports political freedoms: as Milton Friedman points out in Capitalism and Freedom, in a capitalist society, Socialists, communists and any radical is free to pursue his goals, even if they oppose the interests of capitalism. But in a socialist system, the reverse isn't true. There is simply no freedom, no philosophical diversity, no allowance to pursue your own individual goals in life; you are indoctrinated, forced to mindlessly repeat the party line, any subversiveness is militarily dealt with. So, do you want equality? If your a leftist who seeks to exercise authoritarian powers over other's who disagree with your philosophical world view, of course! They have no concept of right and wrong, so why worry?! But, if you're humble, understand that differences matter, and are important, and you consider the freedom to believe what you want as more essential to the human experience than complete, yet banal, equality, than you will have to understand that capitalism is the best system we have. However, I definitely am more on the libertarian side. I do not support the exploitative trade systems which benefit corporations to such an inordinate degree at the expense of foreign workers. All this needs to change. But the solution is reform within a capitalistic order; the problem is not systemic, but moral. Corporate greed can be checked by other means besides moving to a centralized system.
edit on 30-11-2012 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 09:53 PM
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Newt Gingrich was on Greta's show last night to respond to this outrage and had a very intellengent suggestion for Congress next year.
Have the whole solution crafted into a series of bills focused on a fair and balanced approach with all the major expenditure programs. This will force Dems to be voting on sound bills for everyone to see.



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 09:54 PM
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reply to post by NorEaster
 


Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wall street is your government, they buy and pay the whores you call politicians in Washington they also pay for the lobbyist that make sure we the common people don't get anything from the whores we think we elect.

Once you understand how politics are played in this nation you will understand that wasting your time on political whores is nothing but a waste of life and energy and that goes also with political parties.

We the people has no been in charge of government in decades.

edit on 30-11-2012 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Golf66
 

Dear Golf66,

An ROTC trainer, eh? You might have even trained me, if you're old enough, which I seriously doubt.

Thanks for the thumbs up on the sarcasm. I appreciate your opinion especially. No, of course he's not a leader. There are times when the country can get by with minimal leadership, but this isn't one of them. He hasn't led domestically or internationally.

The most recent estimate is that his vacation will cost $4 million, movement restrictions on Hawaiian residents are set for 21 days, and he'll be gone during the fiscal debates, the extraordinarily touchy situation in the Mid-East, and the rebel activity and civil wars in Africa. Oh, and I forgot dealing with Benghazi, the FEMA flop in Hurricane Sandy, Secretarial possibility Rice, and the list continues.

I'm not quite ready to put on a "Good-bye America" bumper sticker, but it's getting really close.

With respect,
Charles1952



I did a two year tour with ROTC - I did enjoy it. It was interesting to see who had a gift for leadership and who didn't. What is sad is that usually those who were the least gifted and had the least intuition for the calling were the ones who wanted it the most. They often were the ones who sought authority but shucked or dodged responsibility when the time came - just like the POTUS.

In my opinion leaders are pretty much born – it’s hard to teach someone to lead if they don’t have the gift for it. Some people are just not cut out for it. Barrack Obama being one of them. He has a real thin skin, can’t accept the most minor of criticism and is a narcissist who can’t accept responsibility for his own actions/inactions.

I often watch him and wonder how the hell did this sham become POTUS, I wouldn’t accept his excuses for a failed mission in ROTC let alone in the White House. Blaming your predecessor is a sacred cow no-no in the military. Especially, 4 years after you assume a position…lol. He'd not last long enough to make Captain with the "leadership" (with reference to Barrack I use that term academically only) he has thus far displayed let alone rise to be Commander-in-Chief.

The first time he blamed his predecessor during a brief for the state of his unit his Battalion Commander will chew him a regrettably large rectal orifice that he would either learn from or fall into.



edit on 30/11/2012 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 



Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Timothy Geithner's concept of the outright removal of statutory debt ceiling control by the House of Representatives IS a Constitutional matter


No, it's not a constitutional matter. The constitution grants control of taxes and spending to congress. All of that will remain in their hands. What Obama proposes to remove is the power of a minority party to hold the American government hostage by failing to do their duty to the people and the states.

In fact, there is a good case to be made that the debt ceiling law is, itself, unconstitutional. Hear me out.

1. Congress has the power to tax: (control revenues).

2. Congress has the power to spend: (control expenditures).

3. Expenditures minus Revenues = deficits, which accumulate into total debt. So congress controls the deficit and the debt, by controlling taxes and spending.

4. The president has no power to increase or decrease taxes or spending. It is entirely up to the house and senate.

5. Consider the case when the debt ceiling is left in place, while congress mandates a combination of spending and taxes that cause a deficit to increase the debt beyond the ceiling: Clearly, the debt ceiling is contradictory to the budget and taxes.

6. Contradictory laws are impossible to follow, and cannot be constitutional, so one of them has to go...

7. The Constitution mandates the power of taxing and spending to congress... so the debt ceiling has to go.



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by NorEaster
 


Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wall street is your government, they buy and pay the whores you call politicians in Washington they also pay for the lobbyist that make sure we the common people don't get anything from the whores we think we elect.

Once you understand how politics are played in this nation you will understand that wasting your time on political whores is nothing but a waste of life and energy and that goes also with political parties.

We the people has no been in charge of government in decades.

edit on 30-11-2012 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)


I think there are some parties and candidates worth voting for, but the media owned by wall street is what is ignoring them. Constitution Party, Libertarian Party, Justice Party, Socialist Party, Green Party. Russia Today had to air the third party debate because our privately owned media thought it was a waste of time in that not enough people care for them.

How can enough people care about them when these parties do not have the financial means to run a successful advertising campaign, or enough money to pay the media to host their ideas? Then that results in these parties getting less than the required 15% to be on main debate. Heck they can't even get 5% to get matching funds. Then they are not even registered on many state ballots because they have not done the legwork necessary. I think this year the libertarian party was the exception to the rule in that they did make each ballot. And they only got 1% of the vote!

I blame the media first and foremost. Garbage in and garbage out! Wall Street owns the media and the politicians in this catch 22 downward spiral to hell.



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 10:18 PM
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What the hell is wrong with you guys?

It's Congress that is supposed to pass budgets, not the President!

You should be mad at Congress for failing to do their job!

Not Obama for stepping in because Congress isn't doing theirs!

The hate for this one man is blinding you from reality.
edit on 30-11-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 10:20 PM
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What a crock! We all sit here complaining about what our gov't is doing to us, but we faithfully keep reelecting these bozos each time their term is up. Let's place the blame squarely where it belongs. Look in the mirror, fools.



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by Agit8dChop
 

"If they have totally laughed at this economic package then it absolutely must be against their necon criminal ways, therefore I am for it."


That is just so beyond compreshension. I'm sorry. you are celebrating ignorance? If any political party advocates anything, your first thought should be, what special interest group are they trying to benefit? That goes for GOP and DNC, aka team red and team blue They are BOTH part of the same scam, with basically the same owners. Your only defense as a citizen is to spend the effort to educate yourself on the issues at hand. If you are unable or unwilling, then stay out of it. You throw words like neocon around as if drone murder, NDAA, gitmo, NSA spying, internet kill switches, and DHS ammo buying are just the creation of some crazed, discredited, zionists and not secretly supported and implimented by both parties. Get it? Bush bailed banks, O bailed banks. Bush droned people, O drones people. Bush spied on citizens, O spies on citizens. Bush overspent, O overspent, then stole your credit cards and spent more. And now he wants the American people to cosign an unlimited line of credit.
Having the Executive Branch make a power grab of this scale is a BIG DEAL.
Please, start some serious reading. America is bankrupt. Maybe you haven't been taught it, but for all of the lies they try to sell you, a government cannot print its way to solvency. Every country in history thats tried it has gotten burned. This debt limit? Thats BORROWED money that Citizens, that includes you, will have to pay back WITH INTEREST. The piper can be paid now, or paid ten times over later. Except, if we're too broke to pay now, where are we going to get ten times as much later?
edit on 30-11-2012 by robobbob because: xx??
edit on 30-11-2012 by robobbob because: ??



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by DrEugeneFixer
 


I agree, your logic seems to work (in theory) but it's much too simplified.

If we continue with these stimulus packages were gonna eventually reach a point where we can no longer do it. Debt cannot reasonably go on indefinitely.

At the current rate I can see no other end but the nationalization of all industry by the federal government. And from it here its a mere step away from full government takeover of all aspects of society.

A debt ceiling is therefore a long term wedge to keep this from happening.
edit on 30-11-2012 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 10:36 PM
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Does anybody care about gary johnson and jill stein?



I have noticed that gary johnson is getting some atttention now that the election is over with. A bit late but at least he can make a run for 2016. But where is jill stein? I guess she is not high enough yet. Why don't you republicans trash the republican party and go libertarian?

Just imagine republicans that smoke pot!



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


The only way the Republicans will be able to survive is to turn more libertarian... that's the direction the American right is increasingly moving towards.



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by sqorpius
What a crock! We all sit here complaining about what our gov't is doing to us, but we faithfully keep reelecting these bozos each time their term is up. Let's place the blame squarely where it belongs. Look in the mirror, fools.


Too true -

The only theory I can come up with to justify the correlation between the 10% (or so) Congressional and Senatorial approval rating and the 80% (or so) incumbent reelection rate every cycle is that everyone must think it's everyone else’s Congressman/Senator who doesn’t look out for our interests while thier own are doing good work.

When comes vote time they must truly think that their own Congressmen/Senators are the only one’s in the house who have their interests at heart.

I honestly, can't see how that happens. All the polls indicate we are not only dissatisfied with our government but a good portion some 30% (or so) are actually angry at the government but we voted to keep the status quo. A democratic POTUS, a Republican House and a Democratic Senate – which is simply code for a stalemate or do nothing scenario.

I voted for not one incumbent. I went with the philosophy whoever was in was out…without regard to their party.
edit on 30/11/2012 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 11:02 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


The only way the Republicans will be able to survive is to turn more libertarian... that's the direction the American right is increasingly moving towards.


I could not care less about the republicans, but I do respect their right to exist, much like the democrats. Perhaps one day they will get their house in order after 8 years of the disaster called bush jr. In the meantime here is an alternative for those that want social liberals and fiscal conservatives........








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