The new budget offer from the White House is unbelievable!

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posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by girlofmountain1
Unbelievable the way posts are censored. Kind of reminds me of our government and all this mess we are in now. This is America. WE have free speech! Wow! ATS just takes that away now don't they. This bothers me because as Americans we should be able to speak our mind. And believe me I have the where with all to know when I am being fed a line of poop, like the budget that was submitted. Please ATS don't take away peoples right to voice their opinion.

Opinions on the topic are fine, but trolling is not. That's hardly unique to ATS.

In any case, let's please stick with the new budget offer from the White House. If this thread is any example, there are plenty of differing opinions about that, and sharing them is what ATS is all about.




posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Sorry to say this but the Clinton success story and economy growth and so call surplus was an oddity that happen during his presidency and had nothing to do with his job as president.

Remember that what one administration accomplish is actually the benefits and policies of those that govern before them. Policies, budgets, laws and bills take effect after they are done, that is why most presidents get credit for things that they do not have done and get bashed the same way.

The Real Clinton Economic Record

old.nationalreview.com...

Did Bill Clinton's Budgets Really Destroy the American Economy?

www.forbes.com...

Was Bill Clinton a good president?

clinton.procon.org...

Is a reason why Obama has never tried to copy Clinton policies at all or even come close to them.
edit on 30-11-2012 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)
edit on 30-11-2012 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 04:54 PM
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Capitalism always causes itself to collapse, this is not anything new.

The trick they play on you is making you think it's a democrat/republican issue. They'd never want you to realize the actual cause.

edit on 30-11-2012 by Trustfund because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by jimmyx
 


There's something far more important at stake here than a budget agreement, it's a little thing called Separation of Powers.
It used to be a system of checks and balances so that no branch whether executive, legislative or judicial could gather too much power unto itself.
Obama has a "kill list" already, now he wants to decide the entire federal budget by himself (maybe with UN input - who knows?)
That is a long-standing principle that is gone with the wind.

Hyperbole? This is overt fascism disguising itself as "representative government", I'm not the one exaggerating - that's coming from the White house with their super-duper unilateral powers that pale in comparison with the Lincoln wartime administration. At least Abe didn't indulge in assassinations. But hey, this is Battlefield America now right?

This isn't partisanship on my part either, the Republicans are just as bad, just as corrupt and just as guilty as the Democrats. It's brownshirts and blackshirts, the color doesn't matter because in their eyes were all untermenschen.



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Sorry to say this but the Clinton success story and economy growth and so call surplus was an oddity that happen during his presidency and had nothing to do with his job as president.



It wasn't an "oddity" it was the result of conservative control of government, before and when Clinton took office.

Fiscal conservatives!

From your source:


Economy: The US went from having the largest budget deficit in American history ($290 billion) in 1992 when Clinton was elected to having a budget surplus of $127 billion when he left office in 2001. 22.5 million new jobs were created and unemployment dropped from 7.5% when Clinton took office to 4.0% by the end of his second term, the lowest in 30 years. The poverty rate dropped to 11.8% in 1999, which was the lowest it had been since 1979.


And:


Economy: Clinton gets too much credit for the good economy of the 1990s, which was already growing when he took office. The Republican-controlled Congress helped improve the economy by exercising fiscal restraint. [31] Clinton's failure to regulate the financial-services markets enabled the bad lending and Wall Street scams that led to the 2007 banking crisis.


"largest budget deficit in American history ($290 billion) in 1992"

Wow, that seems like such a small amount now.


Liberal agendas, the destruction of fiscal responsibility, conservatism, taxes and regulations are how got where we are now.

America is defeated, people just haven't woken up to that reality, but the painful wakening is on its way...



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 04:59 PM
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I'm of the school of thought that the Republicans should just step back and let Obama have his way and drive the country over the fiscal cliff...and let him own it...and the recession that goes with it.
edit on 30-11-2012 by IAMTAT because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by Asktheanimals
 


We can grow a third leg or turn blue waiting for a compromise that will benefit the tax payer and working American but is not going to happen.

We know exactly how politics works in Washington and is very clear that is not the puppets in congress or the sitting president the one that govern our nation, is far bigger powers at work here, I see the government of our nation as just a body to keep the illusion that somebody cares about the people.



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by Majic
 


I don't even know what trolling means! Please explain.



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by ausername
 


I am not a party follower, as a voter since 78, I have seem my fair share of what politics can do, we lost our system of government a long time ago, due to the greed of those that truly run this nation, what we are witnessing in Washington is nothing but a pony show at the expenses of us the tax payers .




posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


I stand corrected!

I didn't think anyone arguing the point would bother to look up Clinton's last term because they love to bash his policies so much. Georgie got rid of that stuff in a hurry. Now we have the remnants of that economy that was not stolen by those crooked fux.



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 05:11 PM
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Republicans keep bitching that democrats haven't offered any spending cuts, yet I haven't seen them offer a single item to be cut.
At least Democrats are proposing solutions.....all republicans do is bitch and moan about everything.

Heck democrats even proposed a spending cut, "He did propose some upfront cuts in programs like farm price supports."
That's one more than Republicans have proposed.
edit on 30-11-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)
edit on 30-11-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Talk about putting more logs into the fire! That's what Geithner's plan is. He is definitely out of touch. What a tool for the NWO plan for Global Governance and to steal our money


We don't have any money to steal. All of the money is just paper printed from a printer, that's all....it's fake.
All this deficit nonsense, and debt is just that, nonsense. It's a fake show. We don't owe people anything, except for paper, and even then, most of the paper is just owed to ourselves.
Wake the # up. WTFU!
edit on 30-11-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)
edit on 30-11-2012 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by Asktheanimals
reply to post by jimmyx
 


There's something far more important at stake here than a budget agreement, it's a little thing called Separation of Powers.
It used to be a system of checks and balances so that no branch whether executive, legislative or judicial could gather too much power unto itself.
Obama has a "kill list" already, now he wants to decide the entire federal budget by himself (maybe with UN input - who knows?)
That is a long-standing principle that is gone with the wind.

Hyperbole? This is overt fascism disguising itself as "representative government", I'm not the one exaggerating - that's coming from the White house with their super-duper unilateral powers that pale in comparison with the Lincoln wartime administration. At least Abe didn't indulge in assassinations. But hey, this is Battlefield America now right?

This isn't partisanship on my part either, the Republicans are just as bad, just as corrupt and just as guilty as the Democrats. It's brownshirts and blackshirts, the color doesn't matter because in their eyes were all untermenschen.




This is the greater concern. It's not about the numbers,... its not about Democrats or Republicans. It is about the Constitution and the system of checks and balances that you spoke about.

In order for the President (Fascist) to gain the additional power He is seeking there are only two ways.

1. An Amendment must be made to the Constitution. Said Amendment would require a passing vote by two thirds of both the House and Senate.

2. A Constitutional Convention must be called for by two thirds of the States. Any passing Amendment must be approved by three quarters of the States.

These are dangerous times indeed when the leader of our Country seeks to obtain powers far beyond those our founding Fathers intended.

Watching CNN so far there is plenty of talk about the numbers, but not one single word about Obama seeking permanent powers over the Federal Budget. It leads one to wonder if the numbers controversy is nothing more than a diversion from what could be the next step to a Fascist Dictatorship.
edit on 30-11-2012 by miner49r because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 05:26 PM
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Here come the thumb screws...

This is all part of the plan. Only a narcissist like Barrack would interpret a 2 percent margin or victory or endorsement over the opposition as "a clear mandate" of the people.


The plan with the fiscal cliff for the democrats has been to get in the barrel and ride it over and scream "blame the republicaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaans", all the way down so that when we crash the people will be angry and vote in a democratic congress in 2014. This is why they ignored it prior to the election.

If that happens the country will indeed be fundamentally transformed....
edit on 30/11/2012 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)
edit on 30/11/2012 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 05:28 PM
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I hope the US is VERY SATISFIED with voting in Obama...honestly a GREAT SPEAKER and a SUPERB LIAR!

Should have gone with Republicans because the US is officially screwed over.




posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by Skywatcher2011
I hope the US is VERY SATISFIED with voting in Obama...honestly a GREAT SPEAKER and a SUPERB LIAR!

Should have gone with Republicans because the US is officially screwed over.


yeah because Mitt Romney and the Republicans are soooooo much better.....

Obama and the Democrats are actually proposing something....
Republicans are just sitting back and complaining and haven't proposed a damn thing.



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 05:43 PM
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I am still convinced that the Mayan, Doomsday, palava will prove underwhelming but if there is anything in and around that time that is worth claiming as "The End of The World", or the "Shift to A New Era", it would be not renewing the American FED and indeed ending the world as we know it for the better of all mankind.

That being said, if proposals like this come to pass it may well be the beginning of the end one way or another anyway, and especially if this somehow lead to the IMF getting involved, this would have to wake Americans up surely otherwise their Republic's fate seems deserved.

When I left University in 2005 I had sat through two years of lectures with an Egyptian teacher who was absolutely livid at what the IMF was doing with regard to her homeland and how it had been allowed to come to pass. Six/Seven years later the people stood up as one and told their rulers enough was enough.

The tables starting to turn? Maybe it has to get worse than it was ever imagined before Miss King is truly heard. We must be "talking about a Revolution" right?

(That said its dissapointing that we are all entirely complicit as we are just letting this happen. It's just a collective decision amongst ourselves that all of this is unacceptable for us to take the world back. But, we seem to like arguing amongst ourselves too much. Only when its as bad as it can be will people panic into action and if we aren't carted off into camps beforehand maybe we will act rather than just moan. Human beings have really become quite pathetic being honest. I liken it to a man who finds an odd looking mole and deep down knows its not right but does nothing, telling himself it will go away. Soon its five times its original size and terminal. Said man becomes an alcoholic, bemoans his luck from Dawn to Dusk, proclaiming to all his innocence and such misfortune for the cruel cruel punishment. Wake Up!)

Why does everyone hear news like this and rush to be the first to break it to others, then seem content to moan rather than working out how to say NO to this nonsense.

Oh well, I'll just wait for everyone else to rediscover their balls and/or their immeasureable capability. Maybe then the collective will start acting as they see fit rather than within the limitations they have been manipulated into believing exist.
edit on 30-11-2012 by kaptabs because: Going through changes.
edit on 30-11-2012 by kaptabs because: Moaning is the least effective form of rejecting reality
edit on 30-11-2012 by kaptabs because: Humbug



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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I know it's terribly inappropriate for this thread, but I don't have anything mindless or hateful to say.

I'm not sure that this is a Constitutional violation, because Congress retains the power to vote for the spending. But what eliminating the debt ceiling does do is that it eliminates one more barrier to spending whatever the government wants. It is obviously an important matter as it was the center of so much controversy before.

I can see no reason for making it easier to spend money. We seem to be doing that pretty well already.

Nobody likes to make cuts, or take the responsibility for them. I believe that is why the President is refusing to advance any suggestions on the issue. It's fairly clear there have to be some. I'm surprised that the President, who doesn't have to run for re-election, isn't addressing this.

I'm even more surprised that he's planning a long vacation in Hawaii at the end of this year. I would have expected him to be involved in the process.

My own thought on his goal? Make everyone, except a few select businessmen, economically equal, or close to it. To do that he has to take more and more from the people who have accumulated wealth. In short, it looks like a two-class system being established, one class being government employees and rich friends, the other being everyone else.



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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The national debt in 2016 is going to be over 21 trillion dollars.

That means 8 years of the current admin is going to cost us 10 trillion dollars.

With the new budget that I hope the house walks away from would be doing us a favor,

Some wont see it that way but given the current admin a blank check is playing Russian roulette.

You voted for it You got it

Despotism.



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


You know what is the sad thing behind this ordeal of the budget and the financial cliff, Neo96, that people can complaint bash each other ideologies, but the truth is that neither party can fix a darn thing.

Budgets in the government are like promises base on futures, just like the Wall Street gamblers do with peoples money from retirement accounts, speculating on futures seems the way to go this days of uncertainty, after all most Americans have no clue what the US economy is all about, so putting some pretty "predictions" while "gambling" on the "future' of the nation keeps the populations hopeful trusting and still gullible.






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