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What is the problem with Freemasonry?

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posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 02:27 PM
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I have posted on this board for a long time and there are a few people who take great pleasure in giving Freemasonry a hard time. They say that it is evil and that there is a elite that govern it. They say that Freemasonry and Christianity and not compatible. They take every opportunity to have a go at Freemasonry. It is time that these people put up and shut up. As a Freemason I am fed up with the lies and wicked lies that these people tell about the society that I belong to. If people have a problem with Freemasonry then they should be honest and say what it is and give factual evidence. The people who hate Freemasonry never seem able to provide this evidence; I wonder why.

Brother Gerard P/M 1316 SC




posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 02:33 PM
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Just out of interest Brother Gerard, would you be prepared to tell us your occupation?



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 02:39 PM
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One of my co-workers who happens to be a 32nd degree mason (or so the card says) said. "If we ran the world, you think I'd be working here?!"

nuff said



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by BillyTheCat
Just out of interest Brother Gerard, would you be prepared to tell us your occupation?


I am a customer service consultant.

Gerard



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 02:55 PM
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There is no problem with Freemasonry. At least none that has a significant impact within Masonry. Outsiders seem to have a problem. Even though Masons extend open arms of welcome to outsiders, and make themselevs available to educate and answer questions (a boon to non-masons in general), many peolpe ignore that and post solely in order to slander Masonry.

For the record:

I am a law student, and will be a Mason at 7:00pm tonight. It is now 4:00pm, and I am preparing for my initiation.



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 03:02 PM
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LTD602 I wish you well with your initiation tonight. My advice is to let your Deacons conduct you through the ceremony of your Initiation tonight. You are joining a society that is in every free country in the World.

regards

Gerard



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 03:20 PM
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They are Religious Fundamentalists. They like to consider everyone that they don't know as a "Satanist" - when they finally get a chance to meet these Mysterious People that they don't know - they take the first oppertunity that they get to try & "Save their Souls with Jesus" - if the person says that - I don't Know - Perhaps they are a Buddhist - the Fundamentalist will then cease their Relations with that person - just another "Lost Soul"! What a Bunch of Ignorant Non-Sense - I can't believe that this still goes on in the Year 2004!!!



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 03:22 PM
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www.newadvent.org...

I'd written a little more in ech's post on this.

Read the link.



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by Cearbhall
www.newadvent.org...

I'd written a little more in ech's post on this.

Read the link.


Typical RCC rhetoric... 80% truth mixed with vile lies...



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 03:47 PM
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Dunn,
Spoken like a heretical sect member well done (no pun intended). I get this a lot from Masons, and I can see why Masonry is against the true Faith. I know the truth hurts, no need to try to smoke screen me or others. I see past it.



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 03:54 PM
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Is there any person who is able to write in a concise way and tell the people why Freemasonry is evil and the Freemasons who are in it are evil. There is no point in posting a link to a webiste that does not answer these issues in a concise way. It was a very intesring link about the various Popes who have written about Freemasonry. In these writings they do not even mention Regular Freemasonry. As a Regular Freemason I have no axe to grind against any person or religion.

Gerard



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by Cearbhall
Dunn,
Spoken like a heretical sect member well done (no pun intended). I get this a lot from Masons, and I can see why Masonry is against the true Faith. I know the truth hurts, no need to try to smoke screen me or others. I see past it.


ROFLMAO.

The "true" faith? How about Muslims, Buddhists, Taoists, Shintoists, Hindus, Sikhs, etc.??

I suppose they are all condemned to "hell", or else are all blind and living in sin??

More Christian fundamentalism . . . . . .

As soon as religion (of any kind) plays into an argument, it all goes down the tubes.



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 04:03 PM
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"Freemasonry displays all the elements of religion, and as such it becomes a rival to the religion of the Gospel. It includes temples and altars, prayers, a moral code, worship, vestments, feast days, the promise of reward or punishment in the afterlife, a hierarchy, and initiation and burial rites. The central Christian doctrines of the Fall, the Incarnation, the necessity of baptism, the church, the sacraments, and the like are considered improper for discussion within the lodge and are relegated to the category of divisive or peripheral opinions. Masonic law is clear that the mention of Jesus Christ within the lodge or the use of His name in prayer is forbidden as offensive to non-Christian brethren."-Trosch


Better for you Gerard? I don't hate anyone including Masons, they are misguided people who need the facts on this sect. If they want to deny this facts and truth then its on them and God will judge accordingly.



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 04:11 PM
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Better for you Gerard? I don't hate anyone including Masons, they are misguided people who need the facts on this sect. If they want to deny this facts and truth then its on them and God will judge accordingly.


When the Christian God files a Statement of Claim against me, then I'll give you a call. ;-)

Just tread carefully when you're calling people around here "misguided.' Do read the ATS Terms of Service.

Your express purpose here is to slander Masonry, but you're using the back door to do it buy feigning innocence, while marshalling certain information in a very suggestive manner.

No, you don't hate Masons. You simply wish they ("we" in about 2 hours) would all burn in fire and brimstone at the hands of your God.

You have to get up real early . . . . . . . . ;-)

Have fun.



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by Cearbhall
Dunn,
Spoken like a heretical sect member well done (no pun intended). I get this a lot from Masons, and I can see why Masonry is against the true Faith. I know the truth hurts, no need to try to smoke screen me or others. I see past it.


If I can get 80% truth in most of the things done in my life I reckon I am doing OK.

Its the 20% lies you should challenge.

What lies where ? Come on its a debate not a name calling contest.

New Advent is the Roman Catholic Encyclopedia. There is no way the established Catholic organized Church is going to say " Oh wonderful Masons". It would undermine the Papal Bull that excludes the membership of Freemasonry for Catholics.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend, is an often used phrase, shall we examine what the Fundementalist Christian has to say about the Catholic Church, it makes Therons comments quite insignificant. Mind you the Fundies don't like anyone much.

To pick up from the first post.


It is time that these people put up and shut up.


The question was why are Masons given such a hard time, this has aluded me also, I'm a nice person, I don't hurt anyone. I give as much as I can to help others. I give my time to others. I probably do more than most that post here.

But I am called evil, Satanic, out to control the world. WHY? You have no idea who or what I am, but you condemn. My Chritianity embraces ( love thy neighbor) , it loves ( do unto others), it does not reject ( suffer little children) and it does not judge( Judge not less you be judged). These are the words that dictate to me who is a good person and who is not. Yet you denegrate the things I am taught to cherish through Freemasonry, WHY?



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 04:16 PM
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Lt,
Nonsense! I speak the truth. I give you facts it is you to decide to accept them.
No!I don't wish hell on anyone, and I hope everyone will receive Salvation. Sadly some won't make it. Each individual is different. Mind you I don't know who'll be in hell, its not my call.


[edit on 10-22-2004 by Cearbhall]



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 04:20 PM
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I can give you my take on it...I think it's because they are somehow connected or appear to be connected with "fraternities" partying, drinking, hazing....hard to take such things as a serious type of learning. I think at one time, they were probably just what they portray to the outside world....but it's common belief, please not that I sad "belief" that today it's just a men's club



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by Cearbhall
Lt,
Nonsense! I speak the truth


Again, the "truth" according to Christian doctrine. Not everyone subscribes to it, nor does it have a monopoly on salvation or an afterlife. I'm sure the "truth" as it is understood by millions and miilions of Hindus, for instance, is quite different from yours. Shiva, Kali, Vishnu . . . . many gods.



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 05:34 PM
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As a non-Christian and a non-Mason, I'll take the neutral ground and try to pull things back on topic.


Originally posted by Gerard:
As a Freemason I am fed up with the lies and wicked lies that these people tell about the society that I belong to.


Why do people speculate so much about Masonry?

* You cannot deny that Masonry is, if not a secret organization, then at least a secretive one. The masons do not broadcast their rituals on television like some religions do. They do not have a widely distributed scripture or book to explain their theories/doctrines. Masonic meetings are not held at the local community recreation center. This secretiveness creates mystery, and people love to speculate about mysteries.

Why is there such a negative reaction to Masonry?

* Like any organization that is secretive or poorly understood, people will naturally fear it. It is human nature to fear the unknown more than the known. People who are not afraid of spiders can still be afraid of ghosts, or the dark. If you have your hand in your jacket and refuse to take it out, the police officer is not going to assume you have a gummy-bear in there. And in turn, it is human nature for fear to be replaced with anger or hatred (I'm starting to sound like Yoda here). We fear what we don't understand or are ignorant about...just ask the KKK, or folks who think that Islam = Terrorism.

* Throughout history, Masons have often held positions of power. We like our leaders to be 'transparent' in their dealings so we can trust them. Having government and industry leaders who basically direct the way our lives and society develop as members of a secretive organization is disconcerting and creates anxiety or fear. Refer to the point above.


If people have a problem with Freemasonry then they should be honest and say what it is and give factual evidence. The people who hate Freemasonry never seem able to provide this evidence; I wonder why.


* The secretive nature of Masonry makes it hard to garner any evidence or truths. The only people who really know anything about concrete about Masonry are Masons themselves, and when they say that there's nothing occultish or dark going on, people will assume that they are "in on it" and trying to cover things up, or have been brainwashed, or whatever.

* Studys that have been made by scholars, some reputable, some certifiably paranoid, and some somewhere in between, have made allusions to Masonry's connection with the occult due to

a) the startling similarities between Masonic and pagan/occult symbolism. The study of symbology is an anthropological and historical science, not just people saying that the barcode on their Frosties box is the mark of the beast.

b) the fact that Masonry uses very religious-sounding terms. Masonic Temples, rites, rituals, calling each other Brother, etc, etc. It can't help but seem a little occultish.

and c) the apparent denial of and even banning of any references to God within the society.

Gerard, you obviously are angered and frustrated by the perceptions and prejudices that the general populace exhibit towards your institution, so maybe you can clear some things up for us and dispel some of the mystery here on ATS. (And I am not being sarcastic here) Why not take a video camera into a lodge and film a few rituals, interview your brethren about their beliefs and the order, and then post it on the web for us to see? I for one would be VERY interested to see that. I reckon it would make it to be broadcast on Discovery if it was done well enough.

I'm also curious as to what degree you have attained within the order. There are always rumours and myths to perpetuate rumours and myths, so if you are not on the supreme council, then any attempt you make to clear up the misunderstanding will be brushed aside by doubters who will claim that you are not one of the select few that are chosen to enter the upper echelons and thus have the secrets revealed to you.

I hope this makes you understand people's reactions a little better. With understanding comes forgiveness.



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 08:54 PM
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Why not take a video camera into a lodge and film a few rituals, interview your brethren about their beliefs and the order, and then post it on the web for us to see? I for one would be VERY interested to see that.


www.wrprovince.co.uk...

Just let me know if you want anything else. I will try to be a bit quicker next time.



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