How Christians would be treated under Sharia!

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posted on Dec, 1 2012 @ 09:29 AM
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Peace treaty





posted on Dec, 1 2012 @ 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by SOLIDSNAKE101
Peace treaty


nice pic!
And its interesting when Umar(r.a) took the charge of Jeruselem, he was given it by christians under the condition than jews wouldnt be allowed to settle. He allowed jews to visit their holy sites but followed the condition and now the things have taken a 180 degree turn!



posted on Dec, 1 2012 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 





If Christians and Jews paid tribute to Muhammad, they were allowed to remain Christian and Jewish


Yes, it's called jizzya/zizzya poll tax, and if the christians or jews could not afford to cough up the ransom, what happened then? They would make their lives a living hell, and some converted to Islam just because life was so miserable for them, the choice was beatween converting to Islam or death. In essence you would end up being forced to convert for an easier life. Thats where the force comes into play, it was done subtily.



posted on Dec, 1 2012 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by ollncasino
 





If Christians and Jews paid tribute to Muhammad, they were allowed to remain Christian and Jewish


Yes, it's called jizzya/zizzya poll tax, and if the christians or jews could not afford to cough up the ransom, what happened then? They would make their lives a living hell, and some converted to Islam just because life was so miserable for them, the choice was beatween converting to Islam or death. In essence you would end up being forced to convert for an easier life. Thats where the force comes into play, it was done subtily.

if a person couldnt pay then he was excused if his condition was not good, it was never forced to cough up.
And ya it was a subtle way to tell the person that he is wrong and if he strongly believed then a small tax or even whole wealth wouldnt be much to give for the sake of Saviour. Right?



posted on Dec, 1 2012 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 





if a person couldnt pay then he was excused if his condition was not good, it was never forced to cough up.


Psychology 101, if people could go Mafiosi and force a tax on people who have different beliefs, then condition would have no bearing on that person being taxed, because a lack of morality is what brings on said extortion in the first place, which is a sneaky and deceptive form of robbery. This is no different than a Mafia Don forcing someone who lives in "his" territory to pay for his "protection", and if said "customer" refuses to pay for that Mafia Don's protection then he'd send his goons in to rough him up, or possible break his legs until he does cough up the dough. Same mentallity, it's called extortion and that is what forcing the jizzya poll tax is, it's extortion.



posted on Dec, 1 2012 @ 10:38 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


In islam if someone who cant afford to pay zakat or jizzya, they will became a recipient of zakat or jizzya, muslim or not it doesnt matter. It is just that simple.
edit on 1-12-2012 by maung because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2012 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


I often read about what you said, about shahih hadits a or b, in this case muslim and bukhari. And about sunni who make up 85% of muslim.
Let me correct you about this. Hadith mean words of prophet Muhamad that have been written after been told. For example Bukhari searching some hadith from someone story that heard from someone that heard from someone and so on until someone heard from Muhamad himself. This chain called sanad.

There are no wirtten proof of authenticity of this. The method use by Bukhari or muslim only to complile as much as they can, eliminate some that obviously not true or fake. But the rest still cant be said authentic even some muslim said it is authentic and called shahih as can be trust.

To know whether a hadith is true or not, one must know the background and the background time after learn all the narator chain/ sanad. And then compare to another chain with the same background and time what it is all about and what the exact words, so it wont be take out of context. Checking the background of chain's narator as trustworthy or not as name and when the words is told is important.

Check what it is all about, and if it is against Quran, it must be fake or been missunderstood the meaning. Some sufi will check the teacher line and chain spiritually, and mostly it will show clearly from whom, when and where.

Regarding a hadith that defined as law, there are another check. For example if prophet Muhamad said that the one who dont go to mosque when adzan have to be burned. After all the check above, another check is comprehensive check about another hadith how the court system implemented in sharia law about this punishment and what the parameter. And after that check another hadith about this as example of punishment being done to someone.

So it is not that simple to know and understand hadith, even it is not too hard or imposible to know it either.
About sunni that make 85% of islam, you should know what sunni is. What is ahlul sunnah. What is ahlul and what is sunnah. Is it true that sunni is a big group of muslim, or if there is another sectarian, and what the different. Learn the history of sunni, and the time when it become ahlul sunnah.

After know that, then you learn what is bait. Then you can learn what is ahlul bait. From this you can determined what is ahlul sunnah, what is the catagory of sunnah that acceptable by the context or by narator as trustworthy. Whom said abc is acceptable and whom said def acceptable etc. If you know this, you will know more sectarian in islam in more detail, and wont just said sunni anymore. Might know better than most muslim even.



posted on Dec, 1 2012 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by logical7
 





if a person couldnt pay then he was excused if his condition was not good, it was never forced to cough up.


Psychology 101, if people could go Mafiosi and force a tax on people who have different beliefs, then condition would have no bearing on that person being taxed, because a lack of morality is what brings on said extortion in the first place, which is a sneaky and deceptive form of robbery. This is no different than a Mafia Don forcing someone who lives in "his" territory to pay for his "protection", and if said "customer" refuses to pay for that Mafia Don's protection then he'd send his goons in to rough him up, or possible break his legs until he does cough up the dough. Same mentallity, it's called extortion and that is what forcing the jizzya poll tax is, it's extortion.

a muslim is obliged to protect other muslims and their property.
Why should a muslim soldier die to protect a non-muslim unless they have a contract(dhimma) and in a contract both parties give something.
Or would you like that non-muslims also pay 2.5% anually? Wouldnt that be a forcing of religion?
Or you would like it to be just free?



posted on Dec, 1 2012 @ 06:22 PM
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Why do people even try to believe this propaganda!! FACE IT!! ISLAM IS UGLY!!! It is a disgrace to humanity and should be banned... Let's take a look at some fairly recent CIA findings...


When politically correct and culturally diverse societies agree to ‘the reasonable’ Muslim demands for their ‘religious rights,’ they also get the other components under the table. Here’s how it works (percentages source CIA: The World Fact Book (2007)).
As long as the Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone. In fact, they may be featured in articles and films, stereotyped for their colorful uniqueness:

United States — Muslim 1.0%
Australia — Muslim 1.5%
Canada — Muslim 1.9%
China — Muslim 1%-2%
Italy — Muslim 1.5%
Norway — Muslim 1.8%

At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs:

Denmark — Muslim 2%
Germany — Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom — Muslim 2.7%
Spain — Muslim 4%
Thailand — Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.They will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply. ( United States ).

France — Muslim 8%
Philippines — Muslim 5%
Sweden — Muslim 5%
Switzerland — Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands — Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad &Tobago — Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islam is not to convert the world but to establish Sharia law over the entire world.
When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions ( Paris –car-burnings). Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats ( Amsterdam – Mohammed cartoons).

Guyana — Muslim 10%
India — Muslim 13.4%
Israel — Muslim 16%
Kenya — Muslim 10%
Russia — Muslim 10-15%

After reaching 20% expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning:

Ethiopia — Muslim 32.8%

At 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks and ongoing militia warfare:

Bosnia — Muslim 40%
Chad — Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon — Muslim 59.7%





From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels:

Albania — Muslim 70%
Malaysia — Muslim 60.4%
Qatar — Muslim 77.5%
Sudan — Muslim 70%

After 80% expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide:

Bangladesh — Muslim 83%
Egypt — Muslim 90%
Gaza — Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia — Muslim 86.1%
Iran — Muslim 98%
Iraq — Muslim 97%
Jordan — Muslim 92%
Morocco — Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan — Muslim 97%
Palestine — Muslim 99%
Syria — Muslim 90%
Tajikistan — Muslim 90%
Turkey — Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates — Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ — the Islamic House of Peace — there’s (supposed) to be peace because everybody is a Muslim: we know however that this isnt true is it...?

Afghanistan — Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia — Muslim 100%
Somalia — Muslim 100%
Yemen — Muslim 99.9%
Of course, that’s not the case. To satisfy their blood lust, Muslims then start killing other Muslims.






posted on Dec, 1 2012 @ 06:57 PM
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I find it funny how the muslims in this thread are trying to justify the unjustifiable not just in the past but in the present and in the future as well....


Islam has no place in the 21st century not only does it have no desire to change and become more accommodating of non muslims, but it actually actively expects everyone else to accommodate them!

Islam is a religion founded by a group of people who COULD not secure wealth power and privilege on their own through hard work so they set about acquiring that which they had decided they were ENTITLED to by force using fear intimidation and extortion to get what they wanted.

Modern islamics do not repudiate this as modern christians repudiate the actions of christians during the inquisition, and other instances where men of their faith behaved badly and did grievous harm to others. When confronted with this and the current bad behavior of their fellow adherents the best you will get from most "moderate islamics" is a litany of excuses and justifications for the behavior of their fellow muslims.

Not just that but if we are to compare the two prophets of christianity and islam and just the things they did in their own lives and the things they said themselves you will see an amazing disparity. Where Christ counseled his flock to be charitable, kind, gentle, and loving. Mohammed counseled his flock to practice extortion, rape and kill those who do not share their beliefs, and any manner of other dastardly and despicable deeds.

Now onto the lives of the two prophets. and the company they kept while they were alive. Mohammed was the head thug in a band of murderous caravan raiders and later on rapacious soldiers. Christ not only did not take any lives himself but in fact the ONE TIME one of his disciples committed violence to try and SAVE HIS LIFE by cutting off the ear of a roman soldier christ put the soldier's ear back on and gave himself up to face his death counseling the people with him not to fight on his behalf!


To be blunt I'm not a christian or a muslim or a jew and frankly I find all of the above to be downright repugnant in the actions they have allowed men to commit in the name of their so called gods, but there is a clear and glaring difference at every level between islam and christianity!

Islam FROM IT"S INCEPTION has claimed to be a religion of peace and love while somehow always managing to bring violence death degradation extortion and slavery in it's wake. Like the CIA fact book clearly elucidates muslim's are only peaceful productive members of a society when they are too outnumbered to fight you. BUt let them get even a toehold and they will coerce bully bribe and wheedle their way into destroying your society from the outside in.

So for all of you "moderate muslims" in the crowd all I can say is either beat some sense into your less moderate brethren and join us in peace prosperity and a bright future by joining the rest of us in the 21st century OR quit lying to yourselves and join your extremist brethren in open fighting rather than straddling the fence and biding your time fooling those you can into believing you are anything other than a dagger at their back.



posted on Dec, 1 2012 @ 07:40 PM
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reply to post by AdamsMurmur
 





I have several Muslim friends, and they've expressed a few times that they cannot marry a woman who isn't Muslim, even if she were Christian



Looks like even your friends have it wrong. Muslim can marry Christian and even Jew but not Hindu or Buddhist or other non-Abrahamic religions. However, it is frowned upon by many muslim and you are hard pressed to find a Sheik who will marry you but there are some.

But yes, it is allowed. Maybe not in Iran. My experience is with more moderate Sunni.



posted on Dec, 1 2012 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by roguetechie
 


so your system, your way of life is perfect and if a group wants to follow any other system then they need your blessings?
People have freedom to choose and i better have the right to demand halal foods and place to worship and the consumeristic forces would run to serve me, they better do, i am a paying customer!
The same goes with politicians, muslims as a united group have a big sway on elections. Plain democracy. Dont like it? But isnt that the system you are thumping as great? Democracy, consumerism and secularism?



posted on Dec, 1 2012 @ 11:09 PM
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that's exactly it though your way of life is inimical to ours.... that's the plain fact.

You have made it plain that you are completely unwilling to coexist without trying to force your ways on others and or extorting them in order to have peace.

Helpful hint here buddy... Extortionists end up in DITCHES where I come from. Your whole religion is a religion of violence exortion and dirty dealing.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 12:56 AM
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Originally posted by roguetechie
Islam FROM IT"S INCEPTION has claimed to be a religion of peace and love while somehow always managing to bring violence death degradation extortion and slavery in it's wake.


Islam translates from Arabic not as 'peace' but as "peace, purity, submission and obedience"

Link

Muslims like to emphasise 'peace' when translating Islam into English but prefer to underplay 'submission and obedience' until they are in a position to enforce it.

Muhammad did bring 'peace' to the various raiding Arab tribes of the Arabian peninsula by stopping them from attacking each other. Unfortunately, they united under his rule to conquer non-Muslims who were forced to make treaties of 'protection' with their Muslim overlords.

Jizzya poll tax on non-Muslims proved so lucrative that early Muslim rulers often attempted to discourage Jews and Christians from converting to Islam.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by maung
There are no wirtten proof of authenticity of this. The method use by Bukhari or muslim only to complile as much as they can, eliminate some that obviously not true or fake. But the rest still cant be said authentic even some muslim said it is authentic and called shahih as can be trust.


While I am pleased that you reject the hadith that show

• Muhammad to be a wife beater Hadith Muslim 4:2127 (although the Koran itself advocates wife beating Koran 4:34) and

• that reports that Muhammad ordered people burnt to death for not praying Bukhari (11:626)

both hadith are considered canonical in Sunni Islam, being not just any hadith but rather the most reliable and second most reliable hadith. Sahih translates as 'authentic'.

Sahih Muslim
Sahih al-Bukhari


Bukhari (11:626)

- "The Prophet said, 'No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl.' The Prophet added, 'Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses.'"

Muhammad orders his men to burn alive those who do not present themselves at the mosque for prayer.

Bukhari (11:626)



Koran 4:34

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

Koran 4:34


In the Hadith Muslim, Muhammad struck his favourite wife (Aisha who he had sex with when she was 9) in the chest.


Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."

Hadith Muslim 4:2127






edit on 2-12-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 05:56 AM
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And ya it was a subtle way to tell the person that he is wrong and if he strongly believed then a small tax or even whole wealth wouldnt be much to give for the sake of Saviour. Right?
reply to post by logical7
 

If that is the way you feel, I hope you wouldn't have a problem being taxed at 100% of your income....

Just for being whatever you are.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 07:01 AM
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Originally posted by butcherguy



And ya it was a subtle way to tell the person that he is wrong and if he strongly believed then a small tax or even whole wealth wouldnt be much to give for the sake of Saviour. Right?
reply to post by logical7
 

If that is the way you feel, I hope you wouldn't have a problem being taxed at 100% of your income....

Just for being whatever you are.

i am ready to die for what i am. And ofcourse if i cant practice my religion, i can always do hijrah, move to a country thats more suitable.
My point was that with the perspective of 10th century, paying a tax to have freedom of religion was a good deal than available anywhere else.
And now, we all pay taxes just to breathe, income tax, property tax, consumer tax "whatever we make up" tax. And you pay it submissively!



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 



Muslims like to emphasise 'peace'
when translating Islam into English
but prefer to underplay 'submission
and obedience' until they are in a
position to enforce it.

'submission and obedience' to God not to the state.
And only a muslim has to do that. others just have to follow the law of the state as done even now all over the world.
A rapist will get death penalty. Dont like it? Then dont rape!



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by ollncasino
 


this is the hadith that you quote just a line and try to prove what you want to believe.

Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number
2127: Muhammad b. Qais said (to the
people): Should I not narrate to you
(a hadith of the Holy Prophet) on my
authority and on the authority of my
mother? We thought that he meant
the mother who had given him birth. He (Muhammad b. Qais) then
reported that it was ''A''isha who had
narrated this: Should I not narrate to
you about myself and about the
Messenger of Allah (may peace be
upon him)? We said: Yes. She said: When it was my turn for Allah''s
Messenger (may peace be upon him)
to spend the night with me, he
turned his side, put on his mantle
and took off his shoes and placed
them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and
then lay down till he thought that I
had gone to sleep. He took hold of
his mantle slowly and put on the
shoes slowly, and opened the door
and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my
veil and tightened my waist wrapper,
and then went out following his
steps till he reached Baqi''. He stood
there and he stood for a long time.
He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also
returned. He hastened his steps and I
also hastened my steps. He ran and I
too ran. He came (to the house) and I
also came (to the house). I, however,
preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed,
he (the Holy Prophet) entered the
(house), and said: Why is it, O
''A''isha, that you are out of breath? I
said: There is nothing. He said: Tell
me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger
of Allah, may my father and mother
be ransom for you, and then I told
him (the whole story). He said: Was it
the darkness (of your shadow) that I
saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused
me pain, and then said: Did you think
that Allah and His Apostle would deal
unjustly with you? She said:
Whatsoever the people conceal, Allah
will know it. He said: Gabriel came to me when you saw me. He called me
and he concealed it from you. I
responded to his call, but I too
concealed it from you (for he did not
come to you), as you were not fully
dressed. I thought that you had gone to sleep, and I did not like to
awaken you, fearing that you may be
frightened. He (Gabriel) said: Your
Lord has commanded you to go to
the inhabitants of Baqi'' (to those
lying in the graves) and beg pardon for them. I said: Messenger of Allah,
how should I pray for them (How
should I beg forgiveness for them)?
He said: Say, Peace be upon the
inhabitants of this city (graveyard)
from among the Believers and the Muslims, and may Allah have mercy
on those who have gone ahead of
us, and those who come later on,
and we shall, God willing, join you.

now look at the incidence and imagine a husband playful pushing his wife

"Struck" is a bad translation here. The word used is 'lahaza' , which
could be translated as "Push" and at most "slap with an open palm" but
not a hard, violent slap (and note
translating it as "slap" is weaker and
less probable). A correct translation
would be: - He pushed me (lahadani) in the chest (fi sadri) with a push (lahdatan)which made me sore (awja'atni).

He dint push her to punish her for going out like you want to show it, he pushed to just ask her that did she think that he would be annoyed if she reveals herself, he wouldnt have done that and she needlessly ran.
And she was already lying in bed when when he pushed his palm on her.
Now i hope you wouldnt bring out of context "single lines" to just speak bad of a religion you hate. We know how prophet Muhammad was, he used to help his wives in cooking, wash and mend his own clothes, kneel and offer his thigh for his wife to climb a camel, stopped the whole army to search for the necklace of Aisha.
edit on 2-12-2012 by logical7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by logical7

A correct translation would be: - He pushed me (lahadani) in the chest (fi sadri) with a push (lahdatan) which made me sore (awja'atni).


So then no argument from you that Muhammad struck his favorite wife in the chest for leaving the house without his permission then?





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