Originally posted by Aesir26
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

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Moslems revere Jesus/Isa the true prophet of the God Most High.
Jews hunted down and killed Christ and His Apostles, later perverting His message by grafting early Christianity onto Judaic beliefs between the 2nd to 4th centuries A.D.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by logical7

Muslims spread by the sword true but Islam dint. The message did spread wide due to the conquests.

It is true that Muhammad and other Islamic conquerors preferred to tax the conquered Jewish and Christian populations heavily rather than force them to convert.

Areas conquered by Muhammad (dark red) and his immediate successors.

Muhammad was brutal to those who had only pretended to convert to Islam. He ordered them burnt to death.

Sahih al-Bukhārī (Arabic: صحيح البخاري‎), one of the six canonical hadith collections (Al-Kutub Al-Sittah) of Sunni Islam states that he ordered 'hypocrites' (those who only pretend to be Muslim but are secretly disbelievers (kufr) ) burnt to death for not praying.

Bukhari (11:626)

- "The Prophet said, 'No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl.' The Prophet added, 'Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses.'"

Muhammad orders his men to burn alive those who do not present themselves at the mosque for prayer.

Bukhari :: Book 1 :: Volume 11 :: Hadith 626

Muhammad ordered hypocrites (those who had only pretended to convert to Islam) burnt to death.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
Interesting......doesn't seem to line up with actual actions, though. Maybe, too, someone should tell those responsible in these cases that they aren't supposed to attack Christians.

not a short list

Really, one ancient treaty, compared to lots of actual historical and recent events, doesn't speak well for how Islam treats Christians in reality.

The Koran and Hadith command
Muslims to fight unbelievers until they
are dead, converted to Islam, or
permanently subjugated under Muslim
domination.

For instance, Jews and Christians living under the Ottoman Empire
1. Had to pay a jizya (dhimmi) tax and
kneel and have a sword ceremonially
strike their neck as they paid their
annual tribute.

Jews and Christians were very rarely
dealt with on an individual basis;
instead they were clumped into a
millet system, which dealt with them as
a community. For example, the Rabbi,
in a millet-bashi, acted as the administrative officer responsible for
acting as representative for his
community to the state. Rather than
collecting the jiyzya individually, they
paid the state collectively, with a Chief
Rabbi administrating. This was the case for all recognized Christian and Jewish communities.10 The millet system allowed the respective
communities to enjoy a certain level of
administrative autonomy under their
representative. The millet leader may
have held certain powers to enforce
and legislate laws. He also served to plead the causes of his community to the Ottoman government.

2. Jews and Christians were not allowed to give Muslims orders in any
way.
3. They were not allowed to ride a
horse - a donkey was fine.

While they were allowed to hold
certain senior-level positions, such as
financial advisers or physicians, they
were always required to hold only
those positions subordinate to their
Muslim counterparts.

4. Weapons of any sort were
prohibited.

5. The word of a Muslim would
automatically be believed above that
of a Christian or Jew in a court of law.
Christians and Jews lived in a state of
subjugation under Islamic domination.

They enjoyed autonomy in religious
affairs and also area such as education.6 In this sense, Jews and Christians enjoyed certain privileges
under Ottoman Rule that was not
granted to minorities in Europe, where
Jews and Muslims were often
persecuted or held back due to
religious prejudice.

They were even sometimes subjected to restrictions in
dress, or were harassed by certain
officials and neighbors. This shows
that despite the granting of dhimma to
the Christians and Jews, unofficial acts
of prejudice were sometimes condoned

According to Bruce Masters, Westerners were
typically biased against Muslims, and
often distorted realities in the
relationships between Christians,
Muslims and Jews under the Ottoman Empire.3 As such, it must be noted that historical interpretations, or
misinterpretations, must be intensely
scrutinized when discussing the
position of Jews and Arabs under the
Ottoman Empire.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Bukhari (11:626)
- "The Prophet said, 'No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl.' The Prophet added, 'Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses.'"
Muhammad orders his men to burn alive those who do not present themselves at the mosque for prayer.
Bukhari :: Book 1 :: Volume 11 :: Hadith 626

Muhammad ordered hypocrites (those who had only pretended to convert to Islam) burnt to death.

edit on 30-11-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)

Koran 4:34

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

Koran 4:34

Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."

Hadith Muslim 4:2127

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by Aesir26
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

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Moslems revere Jesus/Isa the true prophet of the God Most High.
Jews hunted down and killed Christ and His Apostles, later perverting His message by grafting early Christianity onto Judaic beliefs between the 2nd to 4th centuries A.D.

Jesus is God, not just some prophet. I have been vilified online for stating that, by almost every Muslim that responded. Not all - ONE did not. Most, though, were quite rude.

Jesus was also Jewish. And, no, the Jews didn't kill Him. I did that; my sin is what He died for. He chose to die, that we could live, because He loves us that much. The first Christians were Jewish, so there was no "grafting" of beliefs, save grafting us non-Jewish believers onto His blessing.

I do understand how you believe He was a prophet. You have the right to believe as you wish, too. Simply stating what I believe, and that my belief will never change. I know my Savior. Can't deny Him.

All of our stated beliefs, though, don't address the violence in the link I posted. Yes, I do understand that not all Muslims support that. My husband, while deployed, worked with many very peaceful people, that were as appalled as we are by the violence of some. Perhaps more peaceful Muslims can speak up, and stand against the radical ones? They do no one any good.

Originally posted by ChesterJohn

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by Aesir26
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

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Moslems revere Jesus/Isa the true prophet of the God Most High.
Jews hunted down and killed Christ and His Apostles, later perverting His message by grafting early Christianity onto Judaic beliefs between the 2nd to 4th centuries A.D.

Jesus is God, not just some prophet. I have been vilified online for stating that, by almost every Muslim that responded. Not all - ONE did not. Most, though, were quite rude.

Jesus was also Jewish. And, no, the Jews didn't kill Him. I did that; my sin is what He died for. He chose to die, that we could live, because He loves us that much. The first Christians were Jewish, so there was no "grafting" of beliefs, save grafting us non-Jewish believers onto His blessing.

I do understand how you believe He was a prophet. You have the right to believe as you wish, too. Simply stating what I believe, and that my belief will never change. I know my Savior. Can't deny Him.

All of our stated beliefs, though, don't address the violence in the link I posted. Yes, I do understand that not all Muslims support that. My husband, while deployed, worked with many very peaceful people, that were as appalled as we are by the violence of some. Perhaps more peaceful Muslims can speak up, and stand against the radical ones? They do no one any good.

I agree with you as to the deity of Christ however your watering down of the work of Christ cross is disheartening.

Jew and Gentile are made one Body in Christ by their faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross and not because Jesus or God loved them.

God judged sinful man and said the soul that sinneth shall die. He substituted himself in our place took our death on himself and bore it on the cross. died the death and went to hell all of which we were sentenced too by God's judgement of our sin. His shed blood then made atonement for our sins before God in heaven that through our faith on his work we can have eternal life. and his resurrection gives us the promise that whether alive or dead physically we will join him in heaven for ever.

It is faith on his work that saves not the love of God or Christ. If you make Salvation anything other than the faith on Christ finished work of the cross it becomes another Gospel and that will place you under a curse.

It is obvious you are confused as to what the Gospel of Grace is all about and it would seem you have had teaching that is of men and not of the Preserved Holy Bible.

Originally posted by polyphemus75
reply to post by logical7

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Sharia is slavery! Islam makes Nazis look like choir boys, it aims to enslave all of humanity beneath its' totalitarian yoke!