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If health care should be a right shouldn't water and electricity be one too?

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posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 02:05 PM
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Just curious...

why should doctor's services be a "right" not a "privelage" ??
it's a professional "service"

Couldn't you say the same for water and electricity??

What if you get dirty?? Shouldn't you have a "right" to clean water??

And what if your trying to make dinner on the stove?? shouldn't your right to electricity be that and not a privelage???

People all around the world pay for "privelages"

If you didn't have a service sector with professonal services that offer us the choice to either be clean or not, or cook with electiricty or not, or get prescriptions or not... we would probably be back 100 years.

If we didn't have professional services we'd all be dirty, hungry, and potentially sick...





posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 02:16 PM
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Hmmmm. That's a pretty interesting point of view. My immediate thought is that you are right. I'll be curious to read what other opinions are.

Jemison



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 02:16 PM
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I've often thought that five things should be at least partially socialized...

Health Care, Power, Water, Food and Housing. They are simply very basic NEEDS to survive. Of course, this would have to be done gradually, as the cost is certainly prohibitive. But, if we are to be truly civilized, this simply has to eventually be.

Private industry should offer simply improved services above and beyond that which is base, but everyone should have a place to live, food to eat, water to drink, power to live by, and health care when ill, in a truly civilized nation.



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 02:19 PM
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I'm pretty sure water is free in Scotland. I mean, we dont really have any large utilities that sell it.

We have free healthcare too.

Oh, and in order for you to rent a house/flat from anyone then they must make sure you have access to hot water and power. It's under some human rights act. In certain cases you can get free housing, if you're unable to work then the state will take care of you and provide basic housing.

We're partly there, make a start and it wont take long.



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 02:21 PM
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Actually, according to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, every human being has a right to food and shelter. That would involve water.



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by Otts
Actually, according to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, every human being has a right to food and shelter. That would involve water.


Ug, I hope this never gets signed by America. I also hope that is not the wording they use. This would be a good idea in Africa maybe, but in America, all people should have access to it, and if you can move, you can make money to get it.

If not, live on the street. You'll get hooked up that way too. Only in America.



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 02:37 PM
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We don't really say what a "right" is -- at least, it's not specified in any law.

Sure, the Declaration of Independence says "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness", but the D of I doesn't have any standing as an arbiter of laws.

The Preamble to the Constitution says that we're establishing the document "...to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity..." but what exactly does that mean? Does "general welfare" mean "AFDC"? I doubt it!

One thing's for sure, an "activist" supreme court will turn an innocuous-sounding Constitutionsl amendment or ruling into something unforseen by the framers or the Supreme Court which first promulgated it. For example, Title VII of the Civli Rghts Act of 1954 (42 USC) has been interpreted and re-interpreted and re-re-interpreted to the point where any similarity it has to either the intent or the format of the original Act is strictly coincidental.

Remember: a "right" is not what the Constitution says it is, it's what the courts say it is.



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 11:07 PM
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free this and free that, but to what end? Nothing is free, someone has to pay for it. Those who can't do for themselves should be taken care of, the rest need to get jobs and pay for your own stuff


If free health care is so great in the countries that offer it, why are there private hospitals?? And why are there unemployed doctors??

At least where I live water is socialized. The county is responsible for it, yet we still have to pay for it and if we don't they will shut it off eventually. Power was deregulated and we now have a choice - and I've saved ever since. Hot water? I don't see the government giving us hot water tanks any time soon.



posted on Oct, 22 2004 @ 11:55 PM
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There is no free lunch in the economy. Somebody always ends up paying for it. Having socialized water or health care just means higher taxes.

I worked for a major energy corporation for several months. They are in business to make money. There is a happy medium to be achieved between fully privatized and socialized utilities.



posted on Oct, 23 2004 @ 12:49 AM
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Thats good free health care, everybody needs that right?

How about food and water, hell everybody needs that too right?

And shelter, that should be a right too

And lets not forget utilties you have to have them so that should be a right also.

And how about a car, after all you need something to take you to your free health care and to get your free food, right?

What about making apointments at the free health clinic? Need a phone for that, so that should be a right too

And your kids need a computer for school or they will get behind so that should be a right also

And hey what good is a computer without the internet right, everyone should have it shouldnt they?

And why should you only get basic cable on a 28 inch TV while those no good bastards next door have the full package and a 50 inch? Hell they dont need it anyway they are both at work all the time anyhow, right? Why should you have to suffer with lousy channels while you sit at home and eat your free food? It just aint right!



where does it end?

You have a right to NOTHING.

The only right you have is the right to tryu to get those things.

There is a reason they say Life, Liberty, and the PURSUIT of Happiness.

You have to chase it down



posted on Oct, 23 2004 @ 01:37 AM
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Originally posted by Amuk
And how about a car, after all you need something to take you to your free health care and to get your free food, right?


Indeed. What makes health insurance such a crisis? We never hear about the horrible "house insurance crisis" or the "spiraling cost of auto insurance."

It wouldn't be too hard to create such a crisis though. In fact, let's try to map one out.

Just imagine if politicians resolved that, since automobiles are vital for getting people to work, companies ought to provide for the care and maintenance of its employees' vehicles. So political pressure is applied to employers-- maybe through the tax code, or perhaps legislation is passed outright; and, before long, auto insurance is restructured to cover not merely accidents, but routine maintenance and service. For a monthly premium and a $10 or $15 "co-pay," your car insurance would cover the cost of an oil change, tune up, new tires, whatever it needed. Something odd would begin happening though. Mechanics would stop hearing the now pervasive, "How much will it cost?" Why? Because if all you had to do is plop down ten or fifteen bucks and your insurance paid the rest, why would you care what the mechanic charged? Heck, you'd start taking your car in for an oil change every 1000 miles instead of every 3000. Rather than getting your tires rotated, you'd just have new ones put on. And that rear electric window that won't lower, you'd not think twice about having fixed. The influx of customers seeking what would be virtually free service means, however, you'd have to wait days, even weeks, to see a mechanic. Costs would skyrocket. Since comparison shopping would be a thing of the past, auto service centers would have no pressure to lower prices. Moreover, they'd have to buy more equipment and hire more employees to accommodate the heavier workload, driving costs still higher. Insurance companies would have to raise premiums. Some people wouldn't be able afford it. So politicians would trot out new government programs -- Car-aid, Car-care-- to help the "disadvantaged." We'd see another deduction on our pay stubs. The numbers of "disadvantaged" would swell. Resultantly, auto shops would have to hire more clerks to manage all the red tape generated by the government programs and regulations, making costs even higher. Perhaps by then an oil change might run $200 and a brake job $1000. Before long, we'd hear speeches about our alleged "right" to affordable car insurance. Some would even propose putting everyone on the government dole with "universal" car care coverage. Now in the midst of all this, imagine that some "radical" suggests the following: that people would be able to afford car insurance and maintenance costs if only government would reverse everything it'd done to cause the mess in the first place. How would that likely be met? Probably with screams of "You don't care about the poor!" and "Do you expect people to pay for oil changes out of their own pockets? Have you seen how expensive they are?"

See how easy it is to kick off a crisis? Just add a little government control in the "right" area, and the thing practically runs on cruise control. America doesn't have a health care crisis. It has government crisis. Or, put another way, it has a freedom crisis.

www.capmag.com...



posted on Oct, 23 2004 @ 02:01 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
I've often thought that five things should be at least partially socialized...

Health Care, Power, Water, Food and Housing. They are simply very basic NEEDS to survive. Of course, this would have to be done gradually, as the cost is certainly prohibitive. But, if we are to be truly civilized, this simply has to eventually be.

Private industry should offer simply improved services above and beyond that which is base, but everyone should have a place to live, food to eat, water to drink, power to live by, and health care when ill, in a truly civilized nation.

well, if this happens i hope i'm still young enough to take advantage of it....cause that would be my last working day...retired baby...livin' on the beach....man, gaz i sure hope you hurry up.



posted on Oct, 23 2004 @ 09:38 AM
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I think truelies has started a very good topic here, btw.

I'd be all for socialized medicine, all around, but it seems like when the government gets a hold of something it costs several times more than what it should. Same goes for schools. Some feel like just because it's out of the hands of big business, and controlled by the government, it's good. I disagree somewhat. And, a lot of insurance companies are not-for-profit - keep that in mind. Isn't it the government that dicatates what kind of cash insurance companies need to keep on hand in reserves? (I don't know for sure, I'm just asking). If that's the case, why can't the government lower that amount and guarantee a loan just against the rest of what they should have in reserves, in case they need.



posted on Oct, 23 2004 @ 09:45 AM
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Good question, I think the reason is because one is a necesity and the other a comodity. I mean you can not treat yourself if you get very sick, but who can not say that you can go and get you walter in a river youlself or collected it from rain, or used candles or gas or wood for warm in the winter.

Hummm..............I can get technical but I leave it at that, at the end we all need medical care by experts we all going to need it.


[edit on 123131p://666 by marg6043]



posted on Oct, 23 2004 @ 11:34 AM
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Ah, I think you are wrong. Much like any other service, you get what you pay for. You can get plenty of care from non-doctors, just not as good.

But why do some people have the ability to get any type of treatment availible. It's because they PAY for it.

Universal Healthcare = The distruction of America in one mighty swoop. It's a nice idea, but completely impractical.



posted on Oct, 23 2004 @ 11:55 AM
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Well.... I've went without electricity for 8 years and yes it Sucked Big Time!
Had to use a 10K generator just to pump the water up from the well. Was it my right to have electricity? I don't think so. I knew what I was getting into before I bought this land. Fact is the Big Electric Companies aren't going to cater to one person.... out in the middle of the boonies. Is electricity a luxury? You bet!!!! I worship the Electric Company now. It's all a matter of money with anything basically.



posted on Oct, 23 2004 @ 12:00 PM
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Indeed. What makes health insurance such a crisis? We never hear about the horrible "house insurance crisis" or the "spiraling cost of auto insurance."


Actually you do hear about the increasing costs of car insurance. Not to the proportion that you are using as an example but the rates are going way up and the reason boils down to accidents involving unisured motorists. I believe most states now have laws requiring people to purchase auto insurance, which I think is a good thing. If you are going to have a car I think it should be mandatory that you have basic insurance so that if you are in an accident and it's your fault the other person isn't left with the bill. Home owners insurance premiums are also on the rise but you don't hear much about it.

Back to the original topic. I totally agree that if you have the 'right' to basic healthcare that would mean that you have a 'right' to all basic necessities in life, meaning utilities, water, shelter, etc. When you look at it like that, I believe anuk summed it up perfectly:


where does it end?

You have a right to NOTHING.

The only right you have is the right to tryu to get those things.

There is a reason they say Life, Liberty, and the PURSUIT of Happiness.

where does it end?


Jemison



posted on Oct, 23 2004 @ 11:07 PM
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Alright guys enough with this intelligent thought ripping through the stupid litany of rights.I was actually starting to plan my retirement, damn it.not only that I wanted to see marg get technical.


[edit on 23-10-2004 by keholmes]



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 04:21 AM
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First we should seperate ENTITLEMENTS from RIGHTS in order to determine which things are classified how.

Then we can debate what things are/should be rights.

My take on the 3 things specifically mentioned (health care, water, electricity) would be no....yes...no....

Mankind got along for centuries without the rights of healthcare and electricity....
but
water is nessisary for survival and noone should be denied water to drink....after the drinking, everything else you can do with water (ok mabey for hygene too) is not a right. (growing crops, use in a factory, for your swimming pool etc.)



posted on Oct, 26 2004 @ 04:35 AM
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water is nessisary for survival and noone should be denied water to drink

Well food is also necessry for survival so the government should provide everyone with free food.
And since America is capitalist money is necessary for survival so the government should give everyone money.
Housing is of course necessary so the government should build everyone a house.
Since people who are married live longer the government should find everyone a mate.
People with pets also live longer so that means the government should give everyone a cat or dog.
That means the government also has to give everyone free petfood.





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