Egyptian Stone Vases-The Smoking Gun In The Advanced Technology Debate?

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posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by bottleslingguy

you should take some time and read that link I provided Hanslune with. there is no doubt to me that the physical evidence proves advanced tooling techniques were used, read Dunn's work and save yourself the trouble of chasing windmills.


So how were Dunn's claims verified?




posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 09:26 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 

you obviously didn't read that link to Dunn's page. I don't suggest he supports aliens as the purveyors of this "state of the art", but he does make a very strong argument that hand tooling was impossible. the only way they could reach that symmetry on that scale with nearly perfect consistency and complexity in process (which even Petrie couldn't explain in his time) was with what is even now considered high tech. He doesn't suggest who but what and he's absolutely right about that, the forensic evidence proves it. Just the fact, for example, that the Egyptians' tool had to be turning 500 times faster, than the best we can do today, to attain the apparent feedrate that left tool marks on stones that can be found in Petrie's studies. Petrie couldn't explain it with the level of sophistication in the 1880s.

I'm the one who is saying people from other worlds gave the Egyptians the ability to do this stuff and took their tools when they left. Dunn has no explanation where the tech came from he just shows that it exists and raises the call for even closer studies. Why would you want to rest your convictions on halfbaked assumptions based on precursory evidence?



posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by bottleslingguy

you should take some time and read that link I provided Hanslune with. there is no doubt to me that the physical evidence proves advanced tooling techniques were used, read Dunn's work and save yourself the trouble of chasing windmills.


So how were Dunn's claims verified?


You obviously didn't read the link



posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by bottleslingguy
reply to post by Hanslune
 

you obviously didn't read that link to Dunn's page. I don't suggest he supports aliens as the purveyors of this "state of the art", but he does make a very strong argument that hand tooling was impossible.


I read Dunn's the Giza Power Plant many years ago. Yes and I read your link - he makes arguments and who supports him in this? You are making the noob fringe mistake - you take one source as gospel....now is it?



the only way they could reach that symmetry on that scale with nearly perfect consistency and complexity in process (which even Petrie couldn't explain in his time)


Did you read the outtake from Petries 1907 book which I linked too?



was with what is even now considered high tech.


Unfortunately his analysis is flawed, did you read my links? I guess not


He doesn't suggest who but what and he's absolutely right about that, the forensic evidence proves it.


Nope he claims it is, nothing more


Just the fact, for example, that the Egyptians' tool had to be turning 500 times faster, than the best we can do today, to attain the apparent feedrate that left tool marks on stones that can be found in Petrie's studies. Petrie couldn't explain it with the level of sophistication in the 1880s.


sheesh go read my links - again I know this is hard for you but just because a guy claims something doesn't make it true. So again who verified his statement and facts and how did they do it?


I'm the one who is saying people from other worlds gave the Egyptians the ability to do this stuff and took their tools when they left. Dunn has no explanation where the tech came from he just shows that it exists and raises the call for even closer studies. Why would you want to rest your convictions on halfbaked assumptions based on precursory evidence?


Then please provide evidence for these 'others' or did they only run around making stone vessels and cutting stone?

How did you explain away the stone vessel's changes in style over time? How do you explain away their making stone vessel's with a Pharaohs name and motif on them?

Dunn thought they had microwave power and high technology - no evidence of any kind exists to support this, while at the same time evidence does exist to support the AE used the technology they actually had

Edited to add: Dunn at different times has suggested that the makers of the pyramid had space age technology, or that the pyramid holds the earth steady, etc
edit on 4/12/12 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 



Edited to add: Dunn at different times has suggested that the makers of the pyramid had space age technology, or that the pyramid holds the earth steady, etc


Oh come on now... the pyramids holds the earth steady?

Everyone knows the Earth is being carried on the back of a giant turtle!


Thanks for the luck on the project, I'll post pics along the way



posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 11:14 PM
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I've recently been to an exhibit where they had 100's of these on display. The pictures in this thread do the vases no justice- they are 1000 x more spectacular and beautiful in real life.

In my opinion there is ZERO possibility that these were made with rocks rolling on or inside them- they're way too smooth and I just cannot fathom how, nor why, anyone could speculate that. The lips of the vases are so thin and fine on some I find it impossible that it was crafted using simple rocks.

Some of the vases I saw were thin- thin enough that the lights behind them illuminated the insides and made them look almost like lamps. The hue they gave off was warm and glowing.

I'd like to see someone try and re-create these vases in different, varying methods and see if the end result is as spectacular as what the AE created (if it were them.... but, I won't get into my views on that)



posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by samuel1990
 


Thank you for your post friend.

I was hoping someone that has actually seen these in real life would post their thoughts about them.

Hopefully, one day I will have the pleasure of seeing these myself in museums.



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 01:36 AM
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reply to post by samuel1990
 


I think you will find that the translucent were made from alabaster or other softer stone. The AE didn't (AFAWK) do it by 'rocks rolling around" they did it with abrasives' which is slow but sure



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 04:57 AM
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Since there are some people out there that do not read threads in it's entirety, let me state(yet again) that these are Theories.

Just as history has it's theories, so do other people. If for some reason you think theories means truths, you are wrong and you need to look up the definition of the word Theory.

I hate to break it to people but history is not as factual as we are led to believe. Think I am wrong? Just look at North Korea. An entire culture of people sheltered(or unsheltered) from reality.

But our society is different you say? Well if that was the case, ATS would not exist. 'Nuff said.
edit on 12/5/2012 by mcx1942 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by mcx1942
Since there are some people out there that do not read threads in it's entirety, let me state(yet again) that these are Theories.

Just as history has it's theories, so do other people. If for some reason you think theories means truths, you are wrong and you need to look up the definition of the word Theory.


As noted elsewhere some theories are more equal than others. In this case the stone vessel theory by advanced machinery is based on nothing scientific, the theory that the AE may have had lathes etc, is a bit more probable, and the theory that they did it with what they had is the best evidenced


I hate to break it to people but history is not as factual as we are led to believe. Think I am wrong? Just look at North Korea. An entire culture of people sheltered(or unsheltered) from reality.


Yes and the people in North Korea KNOW they are being suppressed. History is by consensus it is at best an outline



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


Have you seen any of these vases in real life? Right up close and inspected the details?



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune

Edited to add: Dunn at different times has suggested that the makers of the pyramid had space age technology, or that the pyramid holds the earth steady, etc


I highly doubt it. Maybe you can show where he says this. He doesn't go anywhere near aliens in that link. It wouldn't matter anyway if he did because the gist of what he's saying is absolutely right. He says the work that you see in Egypt can not be done by hands and the markings show without a doubt (to anyone who knows what they are looking at as far as what it takes to make such marks) high speed tools and one specifically with a feed rate 500 times faster than today's diamond tipped power drills. You can espouse bamboo technology but it can't do what we see has been done. Even Petrie was astounded by the tapered holes and had no idea how it could be done.

You are employing a typical tactic that people who have run out of an argument use all the time. You can't argue with the physical forensic evidence so you assassinate the character. Show me someone like an engineer who will agree you can make things like a tapered hole with ropes and sticks and be able to demonstrate it to completion and don't tell me it will take too long or else you will be agreeing with me



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune

Originally posted by mcx1942
Since there are some people out there that do not read threads in it's entirety, let me state(yet again) that these are Theories.

Just as history has it's theories, so do other people. If for some reason you think theories means truths, you are wrong and you need to look up the definition of the word Theory.


As noted elsewhere some theories are more equal than others. In this case the stone vessel theory by advanced machinery is based on nothing scientific, the theory that the AE may have had lathes etc, is a bit more probable, and the theory that they did it with what they had is the best evidenced


I hate to break it to people but history is not as factual as we are led to believe. Think I am wrong? Just look at North Korea. An entire culture of people sheltered(or unsheltered) from reality.


Yes and the people in North Korea KNOW they are being suppressed. History is by consensus it is at best an outline



What Dunn is saying is no theory, it is physically impossible to create these tool marks (like the drill bit spiral) by hand work. Using hand tools, just like in ballistics, leaves very specific markings in stone just like the person in the link Hanslune provided mentions due to the stick wobbling around inside the hole. Petrie's inspection of a bowl showed beyond a shadow of a doubt that the bowl was turned at high speed on two different axis on what must have been a lathe. that means that specific lathe was built by a culture who didn't make use of the wheel. where did these lathes go? It makes sense to me they were taken by their owners.

Another interesting point in Dunn's link concerning Petrie's work has to do with the workers cutting a bit too far into the block, tried to repair it but left it. It shows that the tool was cutting into the stone faster than they could stop it. This too shows without a doubt they were using high speed tools. If anybody wants to argue the ancient workers would cut for a whole day or two before they realized the mistake and then stopped cutting, they can keep it to themselves because it is a fantasy.



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 08:41 PM
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info is accelerating. soon we either all be vindicated or they will wipe us and start over and in 6000 years from now, some other culture will trying to explain away our culture



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by bottleslingguy

Originally posted by Hanslune

Edited to add: Dunn at different times has suggested that the makers of the pyramid had space age technology, or that the pyramid holds the earth steady, etc


I highly doubt it. Maybe you can show where he says this.



During an interview with Jeff Rense, host of the Sightings radio show, Chris Dunn suggested that the Great Pyramid holds the Earth itself in balance. Any physicist would simply roll his/her eyes at Chris Dunn's idea. Thus, Chris Dunn is at odds with both Egyptologists and physicists.

Source: link

If you were curious, and brave enough to question what Dunn says, you might have found that quote yourself.

In fact, you might (possibly) find the interview itself online somewhere. This is as far as I'm willing to go for you. You'll need to spend some time as Rense is one of the very few media outlets that will sit still for Dunn's brand of flapdoodle, hence he's been on there a lot.

Do I think you'll try?

Certainly not!

Harte



posted on Dec, 5 2012 @ 10:26 PM
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Thus, Chris Dunn proposes that all direct evidence of advanced machines somehow disappeared without a trace, and Egyptologists correctly believe this to be impossible. To account for the missing tools, Chris Dunn invents a cataclysm like a vast nuclear winter caused by an asteroid hit to the Earth.

[...]

In short, Chris Dunn's methodology is so poor that he has resorted to inventing a cataclysm that cannot be scientifically substantiated


ice age?
sometimes i wonder what these guys are thinking. did he not dot an "i" or something



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 05:50 AM
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Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by bottleslingguy

Originally posted by Hanslune

Edited to add: Dunn at different times has suggested that the makers of the pyramid had space age technology, or that the pyramid holds the earth steady, etc


I highly doubt it. Maybe you can show where he says this.



During an interview with Jeff Rense, host of the Sightings radio show, Chris Dunn suggested that the Great Pyramid holds the Earth itself in balance. Any physicist would simply roll his/her eyes at Chris Dunn's idea. Thus, Chris Dunn is at odds with both Egyptologists and physicists.

Source: link

If you were curious, and brave enough to question what Dunn says, you might have found that quote yourself.

In fact, you might (possibly) find the interview itself online somewhere. This is as far as I'm willing to go for you. You'll need to spend some time as Rense is one of the very few media outlets that will sit still for Dunn's brand of flapdoodle, hence he's been on there a lot.

Do I think you'll try?

Certainly not!

Harte


I don't care if you want to try and assassinate his character, it has nothing to do with the feedrate of the core drilling and many other forensic evidence in stone that speaks for itself. Did Petrie talk about aliens when he raised the questions he did about the marks on the stones and other pieces? I don't care if Dunn believes aliens created us, it has nothing to do with the physical evidence that shows without a doubt these things were done with high speed tools not hand work. It's really as simple as that, you want to now shift focus to Dunn and ignore the real evidence. You and Hanslune are trying to be subtle but it's totally obvious you can't address the physical evidence.



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 07:23 AM
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Originally posted by bottleslingguy
It's really as simple as that, you want to now shift focus to Dunn and ignore the real evidence. You and Hanslune are trying to be subtle but it's totally obvious you can't address the physical evidence.


The "evidence" has been addressed a hundred times here.

Of course, you have to actually read it...

Harte



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by bottleslingguy


I highly doubt it. Maybe you can show where he says this. He doesn't go anywhere near aliens in that link. It wouldn't matter anyway if he did because the gist of what he's saying is absolutely right.

Coast to coast




He says the work that you see in Egypt can not be done by hands and the markings show without a doubt (to anyone who knows what they are looking at as far as what it takes to make such marks) high speed tools and one specifically with a feed rate 500 times faster than today's diamond tipped power drills.


That is what he claims, how was this verified? Did you read my link to the other guys who found a way to duplicate the markings?



You can espouse bamboo technology but it can't do what we see has been done. Even Petrie was astounded by the tapered holes and had no idea how it could be done.


As noted several times he changed his mind after discussions with Lucas, read the 1907 book at the pages I noted


You are employing a typical tactic that people who have run out of an argument use all the time. You can't argue with the physical forensic evidence so you assassinate the character.


There is NO forensic evidence - all you have is a guy in a non scientific book making a claim, nothing more, nothing less - that Dunn believes in fantastical things outside of science does reflect on claims, his claims are not presented in a scientific method and reflect his 'believer' status, ie he is bias towards fringe ideas and not scientific explanations



Show me someone like an engineer who will agree you can make things like a tapered hole with ropes and sticks and be able to demonstrate it to completion and don't tell me it will take too long or else you will be agreeing with me


Strawman argument, that was not claimed. The method used was abrasives, now get an adult to help you with reading comprehension, lol... I suggest you go back and read the earlier links to studies on how the drilling might have been done, to be nice I'll relink

Link



posted on Dec, 6 2012 @ 09:51 AM
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Originally posted by bottleslingguy


What Dunn is saying is no theory, it is physically impossible to create these tool marks (like the drill bit spiral) by hand work.


Buzzzer for being wrong, all scientific opinions are theory - and I can assure you that Dunn's personal opinion doesn't count as scientific evidence



Using hand tools, just like in ballistics, leaves very specific markings in stone just like the person in the link Hanslune provided mentions due to the stick wobbling around inside the hole. Petrie's inspection of a bowl showed beyond a shadow of a doubt that the bowl was turned at high speed on two different axis on what must have been a lathe. that means that specific lathe was built by a culture who didn't make use of the wheel. where did these lathes go? It makes sense to me they were taken by their owners.


Again read his 1907 book, I linked to it, he changed his mind


Another interesting point in Dunn's link concerning Petrie's work has to do with the workers cutting a bit too far into the block, tried to repair it but left it. It shows that the tool was cutting into the stone faster than they could stop it. This too shows without a doubt they were using high speed tools. If anybody wants to argue the ancient workers would cut for a whole day or two before they realized the mistake and then stopped cutting, they can keep it to themselves because it is a fantasy.


I like your use of the word fantasy. No high speed tools - or can you point to the technology to support this? Remember the AE were fighting wars with those around them - yet they used copper headed spears, and flint tipped arrows?
edit on 6/12/12 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)





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