Was America ever really Great?

It sure as hell was.

Then I hit like 12/13 years of age and started to learn about Americas TRUE past. And just exactly why other countries hate us. For our freedoms, if you believe that pile of %^&* I got a bridge for sale .^^ now I question how great we are versus what they sling to you when younger.

I've been to other countries and spent many months going to universities around Europe, and for the most part after you sit down with people and realize its not the people its the governments , you have a frikin good time. Once I explained to them that our government does most crap without our consent just like their government do to them such as raising tuition on schools with out even a vote . The ahha light comes on and says $%^% why have we hated each other all this time lol (or at least thought we did) and it because you are taught to hate the others.

I met Russian, Chez, Croatian, French, English, Italian, Greek, African, people from Netherlands(the giant people that speak weird gibberish and then switch to English with an American accent, WICKED COOL lol, im kinda short and so were the 2 girls I was with heh ) German, Canada, Peurto rico(territory kinda counts ) Japanese, Chinese, Korean. omg so many different people really. Sat and ate with their families and sometimes complete strangers that just wanted to meet their first American. Talked with retarded accents and broken english and lots of various alcohols, foods wines and beers. ^^ lol

And for the most part I wouldn't mind living anywhere I have visited or stayed. Its the governments that get in the way of everything and corporate greed. Just take dvds. Why the F even have a country code so they can control distribution and price gouge one country or another? That's just a small example lol.

The America I think is great is the small thought I had when I was younger. That the people that formed this country did in a way so that if big government ever turned into Europe again we could restart it. Where you could say what the hell you really wanted provided it wasn't intended to be some kind of racially motivated thing, sexually ect ect. Draw write paint sculpt wtf you wanted and not expect backlash , and if received have the government back you up not turn on you like a hound.

But learning of all the atrocities we have committed from presidents owning slaves, to killing all the Indians, experimenting on our own populace, assassinating our leaders and assassinating other countries leaders and installing fake ones, rigging other countries supposed democratic process' and then even wondering if they are doing to their own elections? And now the very possible fact we are learning our country commits false flags upon us to steer us in a way which always ends up in war.

I guess it comes down to, if you have no empathy for the world or even someone a couple states over from you, then yes America is still great. If you feel pain for the others that your country has caused in your great great great grand fathers name down to yours through votes or taxes, then no I think the name is tarnished for a very long time. it's like for every right we have done you end up finding out there was 20 evil things done for 1 right. /shrug ^^

Originally posted by poloblack

Originally posted by votan
reply to post by Uniceft17

 

It really depends what your definition of great is when it pertains to a country.

OP what is your idea of a great nation and why does the USA not fall into your idea of greatness.

Quite Honestly I would like to know why any of you think the USA is/was/coulbe a great nation.

if you do not think it is great ...WHY is that?

I know many people who think this country is great and others (mainly those born here) who disagree.

edit on 29-11-2012 by votan because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-11-2012 by votan because: (no reason given)

Maybe I can partly answer your question. Take for instance, Indian nationals, you know, Bangladesh, etc.. Those people have a caste system that's still in existance to this day. They can come to America, get little to no interest loans to purchase convenience stores and motels, buy up real estate and live better than people who were BORN and RAISED here. This is not hearsay, it's FACT. A friend of mine and his wife manage a major motel chain, starts with an H and ends with a J. These people are not even U.S. citizens and they own million dollar homes, and drive better vehicles than MOST American citizens, and they don't even have driver's licenses. This isn't something I've heard, I see it firsthand daily. And they have illegal gambling machines, as to which the local authorities turn a blind eye to, because these Indian Nationals contribute MAJOR payola to sheriff's campaigns, as well as politician's campaigns. Yesterday, we saw this guy named Ashok, and the Mexican workers finishing his 7500 sq. ft. house, which should be finished before Christmas, and this guy has about 15 convenience stores, as well as 2 or 3 ''construction'' companies. Hell yeah, they think the U.S.A. is heaven. Things that make you go hmmmmmm.

Yes it depends who you ask.... Foreigners see everything we take for granted as opportunity and actually do something with those opportunites. I have seen this too.

Originally posted by Uniceft17

Originally posted by votan
OP what is your idea of a great nation and why does the USA not fall into your idea of greatness.

Equality, a transparent government, getting a job based on your qualifications and not the color of your skin (affirmative action), a government that follows the US Constitution to the T, a government that lives within it's means and only fights just wars and doesn't police the world. A life without getting a permit every time you want to do one little thing. Having access to affordable health care, if I get cancer I should be able to get treatment without declaring bankruptcy.

Honestly we shouldn't even notice the Federal government, I don't know about yall but I don't even pay attention to my local government (county), you know why? Because they don't interfere in my life, I don't ever hear anything about them, I never notice them, it's like they aren't even there, unless I have to pay a ticket, or get called for Jury Duty, and that's exactly how the Federal Government should be, transparent without all the Bureaucracy.

The only reason why people think this country is great is because we are supposedly "rich" even though we are trillions in debt. We supposedly have the greatest health care in the world that only the privileged have access to without going into debt, and we have the greatest or evilest(according to some civilians in said countries) military in the world, as far as I'm concerned I'm not too proud of this country at all, and I never have been. People fear us and despise us, for good reason.

getting a job based on your qualifications and not the color of your skin (affirmative action)

It was like that long before affirmative action came along except this just swung the pendelum the other direction. I don't agree with it but its just the way it is.

you make good points BUT the chances of that occurring is not likely. You would be asking certain groups to give up power and wealth for the benefit of the country as a whole.. That is just not going to happen.

Most if not all super powers suffer of all the things you do not like about our country.

yet foreigners who come here love it very much.. they love this country. For you and even me this country is the pits but foriegners who come here think its great.

Anecdotes for you

During my college years i workeda a retail store where one of my co workers was from serbia.. One day i was with her and a few girls in the break room and she over heard them stressing about where to go after work and what to wear. For some reason she lost it and told them how stupid they were and that they had no real problems and that they have it so good they do not know what real problems are.. she said more stuff about real problems like dieing and having a home before she stormed off. she had a point.

A guy from mexico came here opened up a contracting gig.. he made his business successful sold it.. built a house in mexico and has a mansion here. his opinion is that this nation is great..

My wife got here saw all the opportunity and has been taking advantage of opportunities here and has her own little business. she said she would have never been able to do any of what she can do here in russia.

so it really depends on who you ask and your point of view.

i see everything that is wrong with this country. I see the glass half full instead of empty. I also accept that all things come to an end and i will just enjoy while its here and do what i can to prolong the good life provided by the USA>


During the reign of every super power/empire there are the ones that screw everyone over for their benefit and those who get screwed.. I was lucky enough to be born on the side doing the screwing instead of the one getting screwed. Eventually the shoe will be on the other foot so instead of lamenting how evil and bad our nation is I just enjoy it and focus on the good things. it is naive to think that the USA would exist forever... no nation remains as a super power forever.. if a nation could exist as a super power forever the USA would have never existed.

And if you point out that the people of the usa are getting screwed.. well my experience with foreigners has shown that its worse in other nations than it is here.

It was never great, it just grew.

But it didn't have people with as many phobias and abnormal fears and weird ideas as today (see ATS) so my interpretation is that the US was a more balanced nation 200 years ago.

There can be a difference between "Great" and "Good". US became "Great" after WWII with much of the rest of the industrialized world in ruins. Every country has its propaganda, and the US is no different. The US is not nearly as benevolent as our government presents itself to us. Being called a "Great" nation is a manipulation anyway. Its primary purpose as a propaganda tool is to persuade young men to fight wars for war profiteers.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


because america has good people in it doesn't mean its the greatest nation on earth.

america is no. 1 in the world at using human shields. it commits atrocities while hiding behind it's citizens.

9/11 is a prime example.

then they twist things and say america is attacked because of it's freedoms and lcd t.v.'s. which is ridiculous.

even in dictatorships the citizens are as free as anybody in america. they go to work, pay taxes, watch movies, go to the supermarket, celebrate birthdays and even have a drink in a bar.

there will always be people who crave power and control. whether you elect them or they take it by force, the only difference is the amount of bloodshed.

if you don't believe me run for president and see what a futility it is.

Originally posted by LiberLegit
The only thing this nation has become is a nation of whiners and moaners like yourself and most of the posters in this topic.

Well thank god, or somebody anyway, that we still have the right to whine and moan.

The world is full of fascists who'd like to take that right away.

Who cares what the "greatest" country is? It's just people endlessly looking for things to make them feel special about. Even IF America is the greatest "country" (it isn't, it's a continent) it doesn't mean you are great, or special.
An accident of birth is all any of us are.

Originally posted by randomname
even in dictatorships the citizens are as free as anybody in america. they go to work, pay taxes, watch movies, go to the supermarket, celebrate birthdays and even have a drink in a bar.

The US, and most countries, are not so far removed from a political dictatorship as people think they are.

Yeah they get to change the figure head every four years and get to choose from two parties, but in reality nothing changes anymore than it would under a full dictatorship.

We are under an economic dictatorship. A dictatorship of the capitalist class.

The dictatorship of the capitalist 1% The government rules over the people, big banks rule over the government

Real freedom is when people have the ability to produce for their needs, without the restrictions of private property owners having a monopoly on the means to produce. No political party will ever give us our freedom.

reply to post by alldaylong
www.classicandsportscar.ltd.uk...

OH PA LEEZE....... A beautiful car no doubt in a phallic kind of way, that was difficult to tune, keep running, had atrocious electrical systems, 'Lucas, the inventor of darkness', leaked oil and left breadcrumb tracking (oil trail) and spent as much time not running as running.
You obviously have never owned one, or any other British car or motorcycle. Even the new Aston Martin's have their quirk and peculiarities that should not exist in a quarter million dollar car....... wrong example, care to try again.........

Well I take that back, you might have well driven or owned one......... till you got wise and got a MOPAR.

A Brit's opinion......the country is not so great as it once was, but tell me which country is nowadays?

Thats the administration though, same with everywhere else.

The US people though......always were, always are, always will be.

Same as most other countries actually.....hmmm i see a pattern here.

CX.

reply to post by Plotus


That Cadi looks like most Americans, obese lol.

Best Brit car, Austin Healey 3000 MkIII.

reply to post by Uniceft17

So, was this country ever great?

Well, compared to these modern times with the internet, and millions of ignorant morons hanging on it's every word...this website a classic example (don't believe me? Disconnect your mind from the BS you believe and read this website with an open mind and an EDUCATED view of history)....but compared to that...yes, this country has been "great". While in practice we have had our MAJOR flaws, we have provided those with less than us a beacon of light that they have striven and died for. And as long as you have societies in this world striving for what they think America is all about, then yes, we are the greatest country to ever exist.

Never in history has a country fought and died in the masses that we have to free other people. Sure, none of it turned out as good as we would have hoped, but you can blame the indigenous populations for that, not America in total.

American is just too early in Human evolution. The current ignorance of the Americans themselves clearly illustrates that point. I hate that it came so early, and will be squished and twisted in the history books (as it already is by the ignorant fools that like to judge a book by it's cover without the common sense and education enough to see what is really going on.....the very core of boards like this.....)

By my estimates, it will take humanity using the free-flow of common information (not opinion, but raw information) and a worldwide education system to exploit that amazing tool about 300 years. After that, moronic places like this wont exist. There will be no need, as there will be no major conspiracy theories or conspiracies, as the only thing that matters at that point is personal and societal development, without the communist type unpinning.

Unfortunately, the majority of you are far to uneducated and totally blind due to lack of common sense (far different than scholastic education) to even understand what I mean in this post. You all are the perfect example that illustrates this post's point.

America was built upon lies, slavery and mass murder. You be the judge!

Originally posted by cavalryscout
The USA is and always has been the greatest country on Earth.

To those who think otherwise you can kiss my ass.

Scotland is the greatest county on earth !!

I love America, always have, i find the American people to be respectful and real friendly, so in my opinion it has to be the second best county on earth. Only problem i have with kissing your ass is, most Americans i have met have BIG asses, so how long will this ass kissing take me?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Paying the UN the most money so that they can act THROUGH it and continue on their rape and pillage world tour...

Find assets - take assets - wherever they are - do whatever you can - burn it all down - slaughter the women and children - destroy - intimidate - deceive - assimilate - exit



Quite the positive effect the US has had.

Originally posted by Uniceft17
I see a lot of the following phrases in threads around ATS: "This once great nation" "The Founding Fathers wold be rolling in their graves" "Reagan is the best US president in recent memory", and a lot of those quotes along those lines relating to the history of our Country and Politicians.

So, was this country ever great?

The Founding Fathers created a country where Africans were enslaved, beat, raped and worked to the bone and to death. And many of the founding fathers owned slaves themselves.

Women were considered property, did not have the right to vote, could not continue in education after Grammar School, they were considered basically as not having a brain, intellectually challenged, too emotional to even think about anything political.

Native Americans were slaughtered, there land taken, and pushed back onto reservations much like Israel does to Palestinians today, does the "Trail of Tears" ring a bell.

My point is that this country has a Dark History, everyone puts this country up on a Pedestal, The Shining City on the Hill. And it's not so great today, and definitely wasn't that great 200 years ago, so why do people say "Our once great nation" or "The founding fathers would be rolling in their graves" they probably would but for very different reasons.

And another thing, people love to say that President Reagan was the best president in recent memory. No, he tripled the national debt during his presidency, he raised taxes every year he was in office except for one and it was felt hardest by lower and middle income families, Iran/Contra scandal and gave Amnesty to 3 million Undocumented Immigrants. So think again before you say Reagan was great in any way.

So my question is what used to be great about this country that isn't anymore?

edit on 11/29/2012 by Uniceft17 because: (no reason given)

Just a note: When the nation was founded, what were they doing that wasn't the norm for the entire civilized world at the time?

Oh wait... that's right - EVERYONE treated women that way, had slaves... bla bla bla.

Context is everything - as usual.

Immigration in the early 1900's

I have to think this is why this country was and still is great. How many people from other countries come to America since its founding to escape persecution? Or people who came to America to escape a war torn country. Or people who came to America to begin a better life, even though it wasn't always so easy for them.

Say what you will about this, but to me, it's hard to disprove. Sure, talk about how we didn't treat the immigrants well. That's fine, because I can imagine it's pretty hard to house and employ so many people. Does that make it right? You be the judge even though most of you are cynical. And in this case will you acknowledge or ignore the massive amounts of immigrants, legal and illegal, coming from Mexico?

Originally posted by Uniceft17

Originally posted by votan
OP what is your idea of a great nation and why does the USA not fall into your idea of greatness.

Equality, a transparent government, getting a job based on your qualifications and not the color of your skin (affirmative action), a government that follows the US Constitution to the T, a government that lives within it's means and only fights just wars and doesn't police the world. A life without getting a permit every time you want to do one little thing. Having access to affordable health care, if I get cancer I should be able to get treatment without declaring bankruptcy.

Honestly we shouldn't even notice the Federal government, I don't know about yall but I don't even pay attention to my local government (county), you know why? Because they don't interfere in my life, I don't ever hear anything about them, I never notice them, it's like they aren't even there, unless I have to pay a ticket, or get called for Jury Duty, and that's exactly how the Federal Government should be, transparent without all the Bureaucracy.

The only reason why people think this country is great is because we are supposedly "rich" even though we are trillions in debt. We supposedly have the greatest health care in the world that only the privileged have access to without going into debt, and we have the greatest or evilest(according to some civilians in said countries) military in the world, as far as I'm concerned I'm not too proud of this country at all, and I never have been. People fear us and despise us, for good reason.

First you said:

Originally posted by Uniceft17
A life without getting a permit every time you want to do one little thing.

Then you said:

Originally posted by Uniceft17
I don't know about yall but I don't even pay attention to my local government (county), you know why? Because they don't interfere in my life,...

I think you of kind of contradicted yourself. Those permits that you need come from county in most instances.

but the main gripe that I have is this:

Originally posted by Uniceft17
getting a job based on your qualifications and not the color of your skin (affirmative action)

So... those who black inner city kids who don't have the opportunity to go to the top schools, should be left behind? Left behind when most work centers in America still only employ the minimum requirement of minorities? Maybe you should have studied a little harder to beat out one of those other 9 white guys hired while the out of the 10 hired for those positions. Just saying...

I'd like to invite the OP to emigrate to a nation that he thinks is great. Venezuela, North Korea are a couple suggestions.

Originally posted by cavalryscout
The USA is and always has been the greatest country on Earth.

To those who think otherwise you can kiss my ass.

I wonder how many countries he has lived in to know USA is the best. LOL Most likely the answer is zero.