Originally posted by vincere7

Originally posted by zi2525
Put your self in this position, your country has just being invaded, you have gone through a night of bombing, you walk out side to see 3 of your neighbours and your sister (or other close realative) dead in peices in the street.

Black, red, yellow, white, I don't care what color you are or what culture you come from if you experience this you will fight.

Also z you being muslim must know according to the prophet you must throw out the infidel. You are called to fight and I am tired of muslims not admitting that they agree with killing Americans. Show a little back bone. You want to kill us not just because we invaded you but because we do not believe in mohammed. The quran calls for our deaths and the deaths of all unbelievers or for them to be driven from the lands you dwell.

Lets get real are you a bedouin? Will you dishonor your family by making cowardly conversation of persuasion? Just say it. You want us dead there is no shame in truth. The real truth is that there cannot exist a peace. The fairy tale land of peace on earth is just that a lie. As long as Islam exists we will fight you and you will fight us and we will not live together in harmony. So lets not lie to one another. Time is short you may die tomorrow.

There are a billion of you and 600 million of us including europe. If I see things correctly many power people want to adjust those odds. How can we really trust any muslims ever? Because you say you are good and want peace? Your very youth believes and praises those who kill by suicide. Will you deny this and say, 'oh they don't believe in the true Islam they are extreme.' Your children can only follow what they are taught. Your prophet does not teach a peace for unbelievers.

As the population grows so will the escalation of war. Welcome to the new millenium - the war of attrition. You must realize that we have to take all your countries it's the only way we can win.

First i love how you think isalm and skin colour are one, i probably have the same skin colour as you being north persian but any way.

Islam is not about killing every one who does not agree with you. You have the wrong idea. You just said that you (as in christians) are trying to even out the odds, so what makes you any better? Why does it matter so much to you if some one hates you? If some one in a car flips you off should you kill them? Being persian, and knowing most of the persian youth (becouse i am one) most of the youth is not up for this. The only youth that is up for killing them selves are yout who are born in a war inviorment, like in isreal and palestines postion. Thats like saying all black people want to do is shoot each other up, its all relative to where you where raised.

And to say you can never trust muslims, you need to get your brain checked, that is the dumbest thing ever, how do you expect to live speaking like that. You want to know why things like 9/11 happen, becouse of people like you who start telling people their countrys shoudl be taken over. Who are you to say what religon to follow. You preach exactly what you say you hate. Throwing out the infedel makes perfect sense, when they are in your country. If your country was occupied would you not want the occouping force gone?

Listen i personally have been though alot of hate towards my religon, i have been attacked, slanderd and pretty much every thing. Trust me on this, do not go around speaking to muslim people trying to start fights, telling them that they have to fight you, never back some one in a corner like that, i dont have to do a damn thing. I have been in the situation when i had to fight some one over religon, and i did not like the out come (he probably hated it more than me). A war on a religon can never be one, how can you determine what religon some one is? some one could ask me and i could say im christian, so how can you tell me im not. A Jihad is used in self defence to a war on the muslim religon, that is something you started by invading.

And as a final note, yes i may die tommorow, but for today any one of you can come and do your best to stop my belifes, you wont get far.

[edit on 24-10-2004 by zi2525]

zi2525

I totally have to agree with you on this one being Pakistane Muslim myself

I am curious of something.

[almost] everyone is outraged over insurgents' killing of these people. Views are that it is wrong and vial. My curiousity is, would you feel the same way if the people were not journalists, workers, etc, but were instead US/UK/Etc soldiers?

BTW - I use the term "insurgents" as that is what the [US] gov/media has established. I do not agree with the label placed. Such label is direct implication that the US is sovereign. These people are simply fighting for what they know as THEIR land, to them they have been invaded just as if a group of thugs invaded your home - would that make you an insurgant? No, it would make you a defender.

Do NOT misconstrue my statements as if I justify these killings, as I don't know WHAT to make of this damn mess.

Misfit

Dear Misfit,
Do you mean that in the sense of a war or begadings in peactimes?

If you mean the latter then I still would feel the same way as during peacetime no one shouild be kiled and most murders are wrong. However, if it was in war then I would disagree totally with the method (taping a beheading and shwoing it on national TV)

Is that any use?

Life Is 4 Livin,

There is no particular answer I am looking for. In fact, one could change the scenario by, instead of beheadings, it was a firing squad.

My wonder is, are people (US/UK/Etc] outraged because of the "who" it is they are capturing and killing. Hence my asking would it be different if these people were not "innocents" but instead soliders.

As for being on TV - how else would they convey their actions and desires? (that is not me condoning it).
They don't have massive firepower, they don't have 5,000lb bombs, etc etc.

As for "killing" ......... it is, to me, wrong under any scenario. When someone make that statement the usual reply is "well, if a robber came in your house and tried to shoot you ...........", will I shoot? Yes, but not to kill, but only to drop the man.

Thanks for replying,

Misfit

Yeah I totally agree. even if they are soldiers ouyside of war then it is wrong; murder is wrong period.

A couple of thoughts.....

Palestinian children are taught in schools to hate Jews, and the good in the destruction of the state of Israel..

While the "Catholic" Crusades were a nightmare perpetrated on the Caliphates, why do we ignore the Muslim conquest of Christian North Africa, Spain, and the like?

The real problem is that the US can't call this a religious or cultural war, because it isn't PC.

With that said, I have no problems with the Iraqi irregluars who attack US forces. The Mujahadeen against the Soviet forces in Afghanistan? Heroic, epic, and they won! Imagine that! I didn't see a lot of journalists getting kidnapped and beheaded. I didn't see a lot of Soviet school children killed as a "tactic" in war.

So, this all is fair philosophy is just wrong. There are noble ways to fight for things that matter. There are plenty of legitimate targets available. Kidnapping is cowardly.

But we have all beat this thought to death. "When is terrorism justified," comes to mind.

By the way, if someone invaded your home and was armed, and you are defending your home, (presume this is at night), I wish you well in your attempt to aim carefully enough while scared, in the dark, etc., to wound. You will be lucky to hit the target at all, let alone determine wether or not it is a lethal or debilitating blow.

The Spider

I totally condemn the technique of taking hostages, however I also condemn torture and Guantanamo, which is similar to that.

Originally posted by WisdomMaster
I totally condemn the technique of taking hostages, however I also condemn torture and Guantanamo, which is similar to that.

Ya know, in many ways I condemn the Guantanamo actions MORE, as the states are "supposed" to be a symbol of decency, yet the ones controlling the prisoners were invoking and demanding PERVERSE actions from those men. All I have heard of the rebels' prisioners is that they would be killed, but were not assaulted.

Misfit

Originally posted by Misfit

Originally posted by WisdomMaster
I totally condemn the technique of taking hostages, however I also condemn torture and Guantanamo, which is similar to that.

Ya know, in many ways I condemn the Guantanamo actions MORE, as the states are "supposed" to be a symbol of decency, yet the ones controlling the prisoners were invoking and demanding PERVERSE actions from those men. All I have heard of the rebels' prisioners is that they would be killed, but were not assaulted.

Misfit

Yes, you are right.

I think everyone in the coalition has greatly underestimated that Islam is a way of life, not just a religion. They are very extreme about their religion.
My opinion is that Iraq will be way worse than Vietnam, unless we eliminate the whole population of Iraq. These people will never ever submit themselves to a foreign government and never accept non-moslem foreigners in what the call the holy land.
Even the old grandmother will fight in order to protect their land!

[edit on 10/24/04 by WisdomMaster]

Originally posted by WisdomMaster
These people will never ever submit themselves to a foreign government and never accept non-moslem foreigners in what the call the holy land.
Even the old grandmother will fight in order to protect their land!

I see no reason they should. It's their land, their religion, their culture.

What few of any other nations' people do is put the Iraqi shoes on, ESPECIALLY the rebels, as they feel the deepest about their cause for their people.
That to say - what if it were turned around, another invading US or UK - would YOU submit to the invaders way of life? The invaders doctrines and way of government? Would YOU not feel even MORE disgust to the invaders if they billitled you by means of perversion?

Misfit

[edit on 24-10-2004 by Misfit]

Originally posted by zi2525
The only youth that is up for killing them selves are yout who are born in a war inviorment, like in isreal and palestines postion. Thats like saying all black people want to do is shoot each other up, its all relative to where you where raised.

And to say you can never trust muslims, you need to get your brain checked, that is the dumbest thing ever, how do you expect to live speaking like that. You want to know why things like 9/11 happen, becouse of people like you who start telling people their countrys shoudl be taken over. Who are you to say what religon to follow. You preach exactly what you say you hate. Throwing out the infedel makes perfect sense, when they are in your country. If your country was occupied would you not want the occouping force gone?

A Jihad is used in self defence to a war on the muslim religon, that is something you started by invading.

And as a final note, yes i may die tommorow, but for today any one of you can come and do your best to stop my belifes, you wont get far.

After New York and the Pentagon was attacked by muslims trust went out the window. You live in Iran? You're persian not arabic. Your views on living a muslim life do not reflect the Islam of Mecca nor of the arabic world. Your idea of jihad being used as self defense is just that an idea.

Many of Islam would call this way of thinking cowardly and the prophet said that those who engage the infidel's will have the greater reward, or did you forget that? Oh wait I'm sure those are the verses you skip over or choose to ignore. Reality is many muslims choose to follow those verses.

So a man who will fight for the cause of Islam would say to you that he will have a greater reward than you. The bottomline is, whether you agree or not, all around the world Islam is used for inciting violence and war and this will continue. I don't see christians flying planes into your buildings but muslims sure the hell killed alot of people here.

And then you have statements of clerics who say these are not real muslims, probably from wannabe people just like yourself. I'm sure those muslims would say that YOU are not a real muslim.

You want me to not put the blame on the religion when the muslim religion is used to give silly a## fantasies of how a man is going to receive huge rewards for being a martyr for the cause of islam. You might not think it's ok to blow up kids for a nice reward but there are plenty sonsabitches out there that do. So give your fantasy muslim philosophy to someone else who is ignorant of reality.

Any Muslims involved are simply puppets of the agenda
With Margaret Hassan they've totally revealed themselves
A totally wrong and dissonant target
Presenting no identification as to the group
How could they?
The benefit to the War Criminals Bush, Blair, all the sicko intelligence types behind the majority of the kidnappings, is clear
Pulling all troops, Western agencies, , global corporations out of this nation would lead to an immediate solution
The sick muthas representing the coalition are the problem
They have their own chaos-mongering agenda and will keep it up until the weight of people's opposition makes it unsustainable
Believe nothing else

dh it will never be unsustainable. Funny how you forget WE WERE THE ONES ATTACKED!

We did not invade Iraq PRIOR to the attacks. Nor did we go into afghanistan PRIOR to the attacks. You forget we helped the cause of Islam against the russians and by supplying billions of dollars for your economies through purchased oil. This is our reward for aiding Islam that our own citizens be brutally killed.

Did we go forth and sack your cities and nations for your oil while OPEC manipulated our dollar and economy? We dealt with it UNTIL MUSLIMS ATTACKED US ON OUR SOIL.

Now we have taken Iraq. Now we own your oil. OPEC you are no longer a threat to our economy. Enjoy the gas prices while you can OPEC. Afghanistan you are no longer a haven of bin laden training camps.

You want to attack us some more? Go ahead. Who's next? Iran? Syria?

The worst part about it is who suffers? The 911 victims. The Iraqi people. Now that we have 'liberated' them (and their oil) they are the ones who will see continuous war on their soil and you want to point the finger and say Bush war criminals? THE MUSLIMS ATTACKED US. How many times must it be said before you understand the statement. We are now on the offensive.

And yes it is not politically correct to say, 'we went to war with Iraq to gain their oil insuring our resources against a hostile Islamic world.'

Have we created more terrorists by doing this? Of course we have. Iraq was a strategic mission of gaining resources and providing an area of operations to wage war against all peace loving muslims who wish to fight.

You threw the first punch. The U.S. will win the fight.

vincere7,

I'll make this short. OSAMA BIN LADEN DID NOT ATTACK OUR COUNTRY FOR ALLAH, HE USES ALLAH AS JUSTIFICATION, BUT IT WAS NOT THE PRIMARY REASON FOR ATTACK.

You, good sir, are just a Islamphobe; fearing Islamic teachings rather than understanding them will only further perpetuate your ignorance on the subject.

America, being the "fighters of truth and liberty" should not been in Iraq in the first place, these "hostage takings" would not have occured in that case...

Deep

Originally posted by ZeroDeep
America, being the "fighters of truth and liberty" should not been in Iraq in the first place, these "hostage takings" would not have occured in that case...
Deep

Um, what?

America should be in ............................. America ............ and only there.

Misfit

[edit on 24-10-2004 by Misfit]