Free Will Or Not Free Will...That Is the QUESTION?

reply to post by BrokenAngelWings33


There is no one that can have free will. The happening is just happening.

reply to post by BrokenAngelWings33


You can be here to respond to the stimulus. Or you can be here reacting to the beliefs in the mind, the ideas.
With humans there are two images to compare, the real one that is god given and the one that one has in mind.
If you are seeing and believing the image formed in the mind, there is no choice, that is what is happening.
If you are seeing what is really happening now as this, there is no choice. This is happening.

The belief that you can do it better, or that this should be, or could be better is the suffering that humans experience.

reply to post by BrokenAngelWings33

Originally posted by BrokenAngelWings33
So what you are saying is your response was programmed? I find that hard to believe...unless you are a robot...when you woke up this morning...what was the first thing you did, the second, the 3rd...is this the same thing everyday or is there variance...I suspect that the free will of others can change it...I suspect that your thought process changes

Well, just because you find it "hard to believe" doesn't mean it can't be true. You do not have to be a robot to have a planned response. If I put my hand in fire, it will burn and I will reflex and take it out quickly, or if i don't - then it is because my BRAIN the way I have learned to think from my life experiences.

My thought process changes, and I have no free-will over that. It changes due to encountering more in formation through life experience.

Most things are just a reaction to life experience - and your response is already determined by the experiences you had in life and how you were brought up to think.

Think about it, if someone calls you a name and you were "taught" to argue back - you will due that until an event triggers your mind to think differently about it... such as a friend saying "don't let it get to you" or you REALIZING as a reaction to ONE life experience how much energy it takes from you...

All reactions to things happening in life...

reply to post by arpgme


Why would you put your hand in fire on purpose? Free will?

reply to post by BrokenAngelWings33

Originally posted by BrokenAngelWings33
reply to post by arpgme

 

Why would you put your hand in fire on purpose? Free will?

This reminds me of those people who cannot think of an answer so they just say "God did it!".

Why would a person put their hand in fire on purpose? Because their life experiences lead them up to that point. Something in their life experience triggered them to do that....

reply to post by arpgme


You remind me of the religious nuts who blame everything on the Devil or God and refuse to accept responsibility for their own actions.

reply to post by BrokenAngelWings33


That would be incorrect. I do accept responsibility for my actions, even if I have no free-will. And if people are running around killing people and committing crimes, then they will be thrown in the jail cell, any way.

Just because there is no free-will that doesn't mean nothing matters - imagine if the characters in the movie were just saying "we don't have free-will" , "nothing matters". That would ruin the ILLUSION of "what's gonna happen next?" and "I wish he do this or that" in the movie which was already set in stone...

I would like to believe we have free-will, in fact I wish it deep down inside but the reality is pointing more in the direction of "no" than "yes" the more I think about it...

And even me "wanting" free-will to be true, is just a reaction to life - since life experiences raised me to believe that it was indeed true..

reply to post by arpgme


So you don't have free will, huh? Okay...you got me...umm..what is causing you to reply to this thread?...I created it using free will...I respond to every reply with free will...interesting how you refuse to accept that...denial is not just a river in Egypt.

reply to post by BrokenAngelWings33


Something caused you to ask the question, which then caused you to create the thread, which then caused me to respond. Duh.

reply to post by arpgme


Yeah free will caused me to write it and free will caused you to respond.

reply to post by BrokenAngelWings33


Where is your proof for that?
And how do you know that the will you have is "free" and not just a consequence to your life experiences?

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by BrokenAngelWings33

 

Where is your proof for that?
And how do you know that the will you have is "free" and not just a consequence to your life experiences?

Where is your proof that it doesn't exist, you are not going to get the last word in my thread period. Why? because I'm being forced to prove to you the existence of FREE WILL every time you respond to me.

Doesn't cost me anything other than energy of my fingers and a few pennies a day for internet.

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by BrokenAngelWings33
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

Nope. You have free will...and you continue do deny ignorance...you really need to get a grip on reality...do people kill people or do guns kill people? do bombers drop bombs or do bombs drop themselves? WE all have free will choices to make every day and consequences to deal with from free will of others. That you insist everything is decided in advance is beyond me...you will respond or not, your choice. I can post many more examples for you, but I see you have no free will to change your mind

I have this argument every time I talk about the illusion of free will and whenever people do not see what I see, they tend to call me naive, tell me to get a grip on reality, or some are kind enough to, as the cliche goes, "live and let live."

I skimmed through your response because I've heard the same natured responses with different faces, but that last line was pretty funny!

Well, I have stated my position as best as I could and even put in some scriptures.

One last time, this thread is the most descriptive one, far better than I can explain, of the perception of free will: www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 30-11-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-11-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)

Nice one!...the 'perception' of FREE WILL?!

It seems, in sticking to a hardline approach, you have turned yourself into an automaton!...your concept seems to revolve around the, much misunderstood, Will of God...which then leads you to believe that everything is preordained, clockwork and unaffectable...why then, would you need to be 'saved', or to 'save' souls?...since it is the Will of God that they are or aren't either way?...

You seem to have run into a cul-de-sac...

A99

reply to post by akushla99


Whatever you call your higher power or whether you believe we just happened out of thin air; we have to make decisions every day; right? They can only be made by exercising our free will to do so and sometimes these choices are predetermined by reflex and other free will decisions made by others. Sometimes it is the other way around and sometimes the options are limitless and sometimes they are restricted. Many different circumstances can determine what choices we do make. We make choices, we have FREE will.

We choose what religion or not to believe in...you were raised by the family to be one thing and at some point you have the ability to decide for yourself...we blame GOD when things go bad...we praise GOD when things go right. I don't believe GOD is pulling puppet strings...we have free will and so do others...determined outcome or not, there are still consequences of actions to deal with. How we respond to those actions and consequences are most definitely free will choices.

Originally posted by BrokenAngelWings33
reply to post by akushla99

 

Whatever you call your higher power or whether you believe we just happened out of thin air; we have to make decisions every day; right? They can only be made by exercising our free will to do so and sometimes these choices are predetermined by reflex and other free will decisions made by others. Sometimes it is the other way around and sometimes the options are limitless and sometimes they are restricted. Many different circumstances can determine what choices we do make. We make choices, we have FREE will.

We choose what religion or not to believe in...you were raised by the family to be one thing and at some point you have the ability to decide for yourself...we blame GOD when things go bad...we praise GOD when things go right. I don't believe GOD is pulling puppet strings...we have free will and so do others...determined outcome or not, there are still consequences of actions to deal with. How we respond to those actions and consequences are most definitely free will choices.

Correct...

There are only two parameters in this ridiculous argument that rears its ridiculous head from time to time...we either have it, or we don't...a mixture of the two consists of the situation we experience, where 'pre-incarnation' choices are forgotten, and folk will moan about how powerless they are to affect anything, or, debate the multifarious decisions made by other FREE WILL agents...but ultimately folk are wont to take responsibility for thier actions and thoughts (most especially those they do not remember making, or, are too caught up in 'just being' mannnn)...reality is being present and accountable for where, why and how you are situated at any point in the illusion of time...anything else is an abnegation of responsibility by degrees...

A99

reply to post by BrokenAngelWings33

Originally posted by BrokenAngelWings33
Where is your proof that it doesn't exist

You are the one introducing a concept (free-will). I am just talking about cause and effect which we already know exist, so if you want to claim will is "free" then there should be a good explanation.

I can not prove that an invisible pink unicorn does not exist, if you believe in one, you should have the reason why.

reply to post by arpgme


I have proved it exist, you have proved it exist...what more proof do you need?

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by BrokenAngelWings33
reply to post by DelayedChristmas

 

Nope. You have free will...and you continue do deny ignorance...you really need to get a grip on reality...do people kill people or do guns kill people? do bombers drop bombs or do bombs drop themselves? WE all have free will choices to make every day and consequences to deal with from free will of others. That you insist everything is decided in advance is beyond me...you will respond or not, your choice. I can post many more examples for you, but I see you have no free will to change your mind

I have this argument every time I talk about the illusion of free will and whenever people do not see what I see, they tend to call me naive, tell me to get a grip on reality, or some are kind enough to, as the cliche goes, "live and let live."

I skimmed through your response because I've heard the same natured responses with different faces, but that last line was pretty funny!

Well, I have stated my position as best as I could and even put in some scriptures.

One last time, this thread is the most descriptive one, far better than I can explain, of the perception of free will: www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 30-11-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-11-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)

Nice one!...the 'perception' of FREE WILL?!

It seems, in sticking to a hardline approach, you have turned yourself into an automaton!...your concept seems to revolve around the, much misunderstood, Will of God...which then leads you to believe that everything is preordained, clockwork and unaffectable...why then, would you need to be 'saved', or to 'save' souls?...since it is the Will of God that they are or aren't either way?...

You seem to have run into a cul-de-sac...

A99

First off, Brokenangelwings, it's alright, I am at fault for not explaining my position. My question to you is this:
you say everyone is exercising their free will by simply choosing to respond, however, is that view on free will limited to time aka the present? Because you are in the present, you think it is free will, but how do you know that the decision to write this thread or the responses were not predetermined? Why would it predetermined? My opinion is that it is to see the bigger picture.

Second, to address A99, I never once said in this thread you would need to be saved or to save souls. My question regarding salvation is: What exactly is being saved? Saved from what? If you think that I think being saved means to avoid "hell," I will tell that you that is not my definition of being saved as my definition of being saved is to avoid the purgatorial state of what Judaism refers to as sheol, not the place of literal brimstone and fire doctrine that is perpetuated by fearful Christian doctrines.

I will admit that the theoretical answers to existential questions are still premature and working things out. I will admit that I took a black and white approach into the grey zone. I still have to formulate things before answering questions.

However, will you admit that maybe you are wrong as well? You say that the Will of God is misunderstood, but you seem to take a hardline approach that free will does exist. So who is right and who is wrong? Am I right, are you right? Or are we both wrong? Is the answer a combination of the two?

Originally posted by BrokenAngelWings33
reply to post by akushla99

 

Whatever you call your higher power or whether you believe we just happened out of thin air; we have to make decisions every day; right? They can only be made by exercising our free will to do so and sometimes these choices are predetermined by reflex and other free will decisions made by others. Sometimes it is the other way around and sometimes the options are limitless and sometimes they are restricted. Many different circumstances can determine what choices we do make. We make choices, we have FREE will.

We choose what religion or not to believe in...you were raised by the family to be one thing and at some point you have the ability to decide for yourself...we blame GOD when things go bad...we praise GOD when things go right. I don't believe GOD is pulling puppet strings...we have free will and so do others...determined outcome or not, there are still consequences of actions to deal with. How we respond to those actions and consequences are most definitely free will choices.

Being a hard head is FREE will.