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The dangers of 1 state solution planned by Palestinian arabs to conquer Israel.
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The dangers of 1 state solution planned by Palestinian arabs to conquer Israel.
=============================================================
I am all for Palestinian Statehood, but that is NOT the way to do it....
Mankind has great potential - to adapt, to learn from others' errors, to change and progress, sometimes for good, but sadly, only often for bad....
As the world leaders gather to vote for Palestinian Observer Status in UN tonight, it is only right that everyone knows full well the whole picture.
With such status, palestinians would have access to the whole range of UN services that normally only gives to nation. ICC is just one of them, but there are many more, and some palestinians intend to use everyone of them to twist world opinion to their side, to fulfill their 'death to jews' policy, which they had not given up even today.
They must accept the reality that the area known formerly as Palestine during the British Mandate was NOT solely arab lands, but shared equally by jews for centuries.
This is their plan:-
Stage 1:-
- get the UN Observer status to legitimize the palestine entity at world's councils.
-get access and scream for membership in any and every UN services, by hook or by crook.
-propagandize widely the 2 state solution as a dead duck.
Stage 2:-
-Complain about palestinians being discriminated in jobs, lands, education, social welfare, etc.
-make full use of UN services to voice those complains to world, and get world to label Israel as aparthied state.
-get Israel to remove all borders for palestinians and all returnees to live in Israel with FULL integration.
Stage 3:-
-continue the complains, real or imagined
-create tensions within all communities
-conduct terrorism by anonymous groups, THEN
-mount arab spring 'peaceful' protests, with provocatuers within to make Israeli police shoot unarmed protestors
-cry out to the world on supposed 'Israel atrocities', and organised armed resistance within Israel
-get world to provide 'air cover' to protect from Israeli response an to topple the Israeli govt.
Stage 4
-Form a transitional govt that supposedly guarantee 'freedom'.
-seize all power to claim as way to get govt to form
-institute Sharia law constitution and change name of Israel to Palestine.
-impose Sharia law and let jews get the send of a short stick as usual.
A good plan actually, but only that mankind is already aware of such precedents from the arab springs. As the palestinian saw the real thing innocently happened, and see it as a way to win a country, so too do others see and recognises it.
Some world leaders may be fools, but the masses are not without intelligence.
To those who support this plan, please do not do so, as the price is far too high. Just look at what happened in Syria today. Thousands of innocents dead on both sides, massively more displaced and the nation in ruins.
Return to the 2 State solution peace plan, end the 'death to jews' policy so that more innocents today and future generations be free to progress and evolve.
They must accept the reality that the area known formerly as Palestine during the British Mandate was NOT solely arab lands, but shared equally by jews for centuries. The 2 state solution proposed by UN in 1948 is only fair, to end the throat cutting by both sides.
If the arab world had not acted unilaterally to conquer Israel in 1948 and then abandoned large areas, Israel would not have occupied those lands, which today, they had returned to palestinians, but only in exchange for peace which some palestinian refused to do, and thus the restrictions, embargoes, settlement building, to make the palestinians come to their senses and face reality for once, to end the hatred.
One day, our planet will become a global village with no borders, not the perverted corporate elite one, but a real one people one world, sharing our world upon common grounds to live in peace, progress and evolution. But today is not the day..yet, as the intitutions inplaced are still new and will take years to change stubborn selfish mindsets.
Peace.
-
=============================================================
I am all for Palestinian Statehood, but that is NOT the way to do it....
Mankind has great potential - to adapt, to learn from others' errors, to change and progress, sometimes for good, but sadly, only often for bad....
As the world leaders gather to vote for Palestinian Observer Status in UN tonight, it is only right that everyone knows full well the whole picture.
With such status, palestinians would have access to the whole range of UN services that normally only gives to nation. ICC is just one of them, but there are many more, and some palestinians intend to use everyone of them to twist world opinion to their side, to fulfill their 'death to jews' policy, which they had not given up even today.
They must accept the reality that the area known formerly as Palestine during the British Mandate was NOT solely arab lands, but shared equally by jews for centuries.
This is their plan:-
Stage 1:-
- get the UN Observer status to legitimize the palestine entity at world's councils.
-get access and scream for membership in any and every UN services, by hook or by crook.
-propagandize widely the 2 state solution as a dead duck.
Stage 2:-
-Complain about palestinians being discriminated in jobs, lands, education, social welfare, etc.
-make full use of UN services to voice those complains to world, and get world to label Israel as aparthied state.
-get Israel to remove all borders for palestinians and all returnees to live in Israel with FULL integration.
Stage 3:-
-continue the complains, real or imagined
-create tensions within all communities
-conduct terrorism by anonymous groups, THEN
-mount arab spring 'peaceful' protests, with provocatuers within to make Israeli police shoot unarmed protestors
-cry out to the world on supposed 'Israel atrocities', and organised armed resistance within Israel
-get world to provide 'air cover' to protect from Israeli response an to topple the Israeli govt.
Stage 4
-Form a transitional govt that supposedly guarantee 'freedom'.
-seize all power to claim as way to get govt to form
-institute Sharia law constitution and change name of Israel to Palestine.
-impose Sharia law and let jews get the send of a short stick as usual.
A good plan actually, but only that mankind is already aware of such precedents from the arab springs. As the palestinian saw the real thing innocently happened, and see it as a way to win a country, so too do others see and recognises it.
Some world leaders may be fools, but the masses are not without intelligence.
To those who support this plan, please do not do so, as the price is far too high. Just look at what happened in Syria today. Thousands of innocents dead on both sides, massively more displaced and the nation in ruins.
Return to the 2 State solution peace plan, end the 'death to jews' policy so that more innocents today and future generations be free to progress and evolve.
They must accept the reality that the area known formerly as Palestine during the British Mandate was NOT solely arab lands, but shared equally by jews for centuries. The 2 state solution proposed by UN in 1948 is only fair, to end the throat cutting by both sides.
If the arab world had not acted unilaterally to conquer Israel in 1948 and then abandoned large areas, Israel would not have occupied those lands, which today, they had returned to palestinians, but only in exchange for peace which some palestinian refused to do, and thus the restrictions, embargoes, settlement building, to make the palestinians come to their senses and face reality for once, to end the hatred.
One day, our planet will become a global village with no borders, not the perverted corporate elite one, but a real one people one world, sharing our world upon common grounds to live in peace, progress and evolution. But today is not the day..yet, as the intitutions inplaced are still new and will take years to change stubborn selfish mindsets.
Peace.
-
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
apparently the only thing israel learned about the holocaust was how to emulate it.
no excuses for war criminals, and you have those in both sides of the fence.
stop killing innocent people that's all.
Mankind has great potential - to adapt, to learn from others' errors, to change and progress, sometimes for good, but sadly, only often for bad....
apparently the only thing israel learned about the holocaust was how to emulate it.
no excuses for war criminals, and you have those in both sides of the fence.
stop killing innocent people that's all.
edit on 29-11-2012 by UziLiberman because: (no reason given)
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
I will probably comment on other aspects of your article but first I'd like to point one thing out...
By the late 19th century the Jewish population in Palestine was actually about 4%. By the mid 1930's (during the British Mandate) the population was up to approx. 27%. 'Shared equally' would not be an accurate statement.
I will probably comment on other aspects of your article but first I'd like to point one thing out...
They must accept the reality that the area known formerly as Palestine during the British Mandate was NOT solely arab lands, but shared equally by jews for centuries.
By the late 19th century the Jewish population in Palestine was actually about 4%. By the mid 1930's (during the British Mandate) the population was up to approx. 27%. 'Shared equally' would not be an accurate statement.
reply to post by UziLiberman
I fully agree with you that justice must be served upon war criminals.
Thing is, atrocities fall equally on not only BOTH sides, but upon others in the region as well.
An eye for an eye will only leave the whole world blind, and such justice will not bring the dead back to life of those from all sides, but only to keep the conflict perpetually open for all eternity, as no mortal justice served will satisfy any side.
Instead, let us honor them all, for they died in search of peace, both combatants and non-combatants. Let not their death be in vain, but hold them in remembrance dearly for the peace that we all CAN achieve today by opting for the 2 state solution, for all and future generations to live in peace to progress and evolve......
I fully agree with you that justice must be served upon war criminals.
Thing is, atrocities fall equally on not only BOTH sides, but upon others in the region as well.
An eye for an eye will only leave the whole world blind, and such justice will not bring the dead back to life of those from all sides, but only to keep the conflict perpetually open for all eternity, as no mortal justice served will satisfy any side.
Instead, let us honor them all, for they died in search of peace, both combatants and non-combatants. Let not their death be in vain, but hold them in remembrance dearly for the peace that we all CAN achieve today by opting for the 2 state solution, for all and future generations to live in peace to progress and evolve......
reply to post by fenceSitter
Thanks for your reply.
Regardless if the jews were only 1% or 99%, both jews and arabs had lived and shared British Palestine before- an undeniable fact.
Furthermore, you must equally take into account the lands astronomically sold to the jews by the corrupted Ottoman Empire, who viewed those land parcels were worthless dumps, a view shared by the arabs who could not work those soil anymore, unaware of how jewish ingenuity and backbreaking work had transformed those lands to what it is today.
So what is the world to do today with these 2 loggerheads and be dragged into their conflict dividing our world?
Let them share the land as a 2 state solution, each to develope their lands as they best know how. Israel too have arab citizens ( est 30%) sharing Israel in peace as they had done for centuries and are without the kind of restrictions place upon them like those of jews living in arab nations.
'Killing all jews policy' is nothing more than genocide which NO nation will countenance. May palestinians comprehend that and find better ways to end the conflict and share the land.
Thanks for your reply.
Regardless if the jews were only 1% or 99%, both jews and arabs had lived and shared British Palestine before- an undeniable fact.
Furthermore, you must equally take into account the lands astronomically sold to the jews by the corrupted Ottoman Empire, who viewed those land parcels were worthless dumps, a view shared by the arabs who could not work those soil anymore, unaware of how jewish ingenuity and backbreaking work had transformed those lands to what it is today.
So what is the world to do today with these 2 loggerheads and be dragged into their conflict dividing our world?
Let them share the land as a 2 state solution, each to develope their lands as they best know how. Israel too have arab citizens ( est 30%) sharing Israel in peace as they had done for centuries and are without the kind of restrictions place upon them like those of jews living in arab nations.
'Killing all jews policy' is nothing more than genocide which NO nation will countenance. May palestinians comprehend that and find better ways to end the conflict and share the land.
edit on 29-11-2012 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)
Hmmm....You lay out a "plan" you say the Palestinians have, and it is very detailed, yet you have no listed source or link for this.
Please provide the source for this plan, or, if it is only what you think they're thinking, please indicate that.
Thanks!
Please provide the source for this plan, or, if it is only what you think they're thinking, please indicate that.
Thanks!
A similar plan was outlined in 1982 by the Muslim Brotherhood.
I think it was called "The Project" or "The Muslim Brotherhood Project".
I think it was called "The Project" or "The Muslim Brotherhood Project".
reply to post by FissionSurplus
Such a plan would never be allowed to see the light of day.
It came from discussions with others, and I would suggest others do the same, to talk and find out more from others in their perceptions and beliefs, espacially amongst the palestinians.
My purpose of this thread is no way as an expose, or it will be on Breaking News topics or even in the media, but only as a sharing of insights of what will be the outcome of such beliefs held by some and hope in some way it may be avoided, or many will suffer only for the selfish few.
Such a plan would never be allowed to see the light of day.
It came from discussions with others, and I would suggest others do the same, to talk and find out more from others in their perceptions and beliefs, espacially amongst the palestinians.
My purpose of this thread is no way as an expose, or it will be on Breaking News topics or even in the media, but only as a sharing of insights of what will be the outcome of such beliefs held by some and hope in some way it may be avoided, or many will suffer only for the selfish few.
Mankind has great potential - to adapt, to learn from others' errors, to change and progress, sometimes for good, but sadly, only often for bad....
apparently the only thing israel learned about the holocaust was how to emulate it.
no excuses for war criminals, and you have those in both sides of the fence.
stop killing innocent people that's all
I mostly agree. How ever, "that's all" is not all. You can't just stop there. How do you decide who is innocent and who is guilty? Personally, I don't know enough to know that answer. But what I think is, the people we have making those decisions for us, are bad people.
edit on 20122911 by Mugen because: (no reason given)
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
So you spoke to Palestinians, and this is what they say?
I guess my point is, if it is only heresay, or your summation of what you have gathered from talking to private individuals, then it should be couched in such a manner. The way it was written, it seemed like a documented fact.
We are here to deny ignorance, are we not? Clarification is paramount in these cases. Negative assumptions about a group of people with nothing to back it up is typically called "prejudice". Therefore, I ask for proof of this long, detailed plan. A few people grumbling and having a wish list means nothing.
I'm sure there are many Iraqis who have their own plan about how to get rid of American occupying forces, how to kick them out and rid their land of infidels. Doesn't mean squat, as you can well imagine.
So you spoke to Palestinians, and this is what they say?
I guess my point is, if it is only heresay, or your summation of what you have gathered from talking to private individuals, then it should be couched in such a manner. The way it was written, it seemed like a documented fact.
We are here to deny ignorance, are we not? Clarification is paramount in these cases. Negative assumptions about a group of people with nothing to back it up is typically called "prejudice". Therefore, I ask for proof of this long, detailed plan. A few people grumbling and having a wish list means nothing.
I'm sure there are many Iraqis who have their own plan about how to get rid of American occupying forces, how to kick them out and rid their land of infidels. Doesn't mean squat, as you can well imagine.
reply to post by FissionSurplus
I understand where you are coming from.
I too, believe that ignorance is bliss.
But unfortunately, whenever we ignore even the loud vocal minority, very often, they are the ones who harm societies the most, through their dedication and misplaced strident beliefs imposed upon the more 'sheple' of a society to make up the numbers.
I had only wrote that some palestinians have such views, and not the majority.
Take a look at the real world examples of the muslim brotherhood. For decades, they had been sidelined, ignored and even repressed for their far out idealogy, but look at where they are today?
Look at Hamas, equally the same, and tell me where they stand today in the political scene?
I can go on and more over other situations of the minority worldwide but would only be irrelevant to this thread. I only wish to relay some of insights held by other palestinians whom may have different ideas on the formation of palestine nationhood - upon the skulls of others, so that more may be aware and better informed when issues surfaced in the future.
Regardless of how the UN vote will be, best mankind be prepared, not to cry over spilt milk, but to pull the blinkers off one's eyes so that rational decisions be made, and not to have regrets such as those whom had voted for Mursi and regretted the choice made, but too late as the harm had already been done.
We are each responsible for the decisions we made or supported.....
I understand where you are coming from.
I too, believe that ignorance is bliss.
But unfortunately, whenever we ignore even the loud vocal minority, very often, they are the ones who harm societies the most, through their dedication and misplaced strident beliefs imposed upon the more 'sheple' of a society to make up the numbers.
I had only wrote that some palestinians have such views, and not the majority.
Take a look at the real world examples of the muslim brotherhood. For decades, they had been sidelined, ignored and even repressed for their far out idealogy, but look at where they are today?
Look at Hamas, equally the same, and tell me where they stand today in the political scene?
I can go on and more over other situations of the minority worldwide but would only be irrelevant to this thread. I only wish to relay some of insights held by other palestinians whom may have different ideas on the formation of palestine nationhood - upon the skulls of others, so that more may be aware and better informed when issues surfaced in the future.
Regardless of how the UN vote will be, best mankind be prepared, not to cry over spilt milk, but to pull the blinkers off one's eyes so that rational decisions be made, and not to have regrets such as those whom had voted for Mursi and regretted the choice made, but too late as the harm had already been done.
We are each responsible for the decisions we made or supported.....
The world has voted today and 136 nations had accorded UN observer status and use of UN services to Palestine People, despite the palestinians being a
divided people still - some who seek for peace and a 2 state solution and yet others who refused to recognize Israel as a state and continues with its
'death to jews' policy.
It is good that the voter nations name are displayed. They are the ones who will be RESPONSIBLE now for any further violence or suffering of the palestinians, jews and other humans that gets caught up in between the crossfires. They equally will be the ones to solve the plight of the palestinian people with aid, funds and social welfare.
Voting rights comes with responsibilities. Best that they do no shirk from it, or call upon those who had decline to vote or voted against the recognition as it was not time to do so with issues unsolved, to be responsible for the palestinians. Those who voted 'FOR' will be held accountable under international law for the good behaviour of the palestinians sharing our world.
However, it is my fervant hope that the palestinian people will grow up, appreciate and be responsible of the support by the 136 nations, to seek for peace and live in peace with every nation sharing our world, and not take them for granted or misuse them for personal glorification and selfish agendas. Those nations may be ignorant but they are innocent.
Flowery words of peace are meaningless. It must be backed up with honesty, integrity for truths no matter how painful it may be, and genuine sincere action.
May the palestinian people not dissapoint the supporting 136 nations, and the 136 nations not dissapoint the rest of the nations of our world, to live in peace sharing common human aspirations to progress and evolve.
It is good that the voter nations name are displayed. They are the ones who will be RESPONSIBLE now for any further violence or suffering of the palestinians, jews and other humans that gets caught up in between the crossfires. They equally will be the ones to solve the plight of the palestinian people with aid, funds and social welfare.
Voting rights comes with responsibilities. Best that they do no shirk from it, or call upon those who had decline to vote or voted against the recognition as it was not time to do so with issues unsolved, to be responsible for the palestinians. Those who voted 'FOR' will be held accountable under international law for the good behaviour of the palestinians sharing our world.
However, it is my fervant hope that the palestinian people will grow up, appreciate and be responsible of the support by the 136 nations, to seek for peace and live in peace with every nation sharing our world, and not take them for granted or misuse them for personal glorification and selfish agendas. Those nations may be ignorant but they are innocent.
Flowery words of peace are meaningless. It must be backed up with honesty, integrity for truths no matter how painful it may be, and genuine sincere action.
May the palestinian people not dissapoint the supporting 136 nations, and the 136 nations not dissapoint the rest of the nations of our world, to live in peace sharing common human aspirations to progress and evolve.
edit on 30-11-2012 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)
Palestine and most muslim nations way of freedom is to mass murder jews and take over Jerusalem.That is what The Muslim brotherhood wins votes on
through all the Islamic world.
You may be right or may not be but you may be looking into it too deeply.
Interesting perspective.
I definitely understand that there are two sides to every position, and this is the downside to the one state solution policy.
But what does that reflect? Think about it for a second. What base would the Palestinians be working from if they intend to carry out this elaborate strategy against Israel? Answer: the predominant base. The policy which seeks Israels destruction would exist regardless of a 2 state of 1 state solution. Either situation has it's pros and cons.
In my opinion, the problem is less extreme with a one state solution than it would be with a Palestinian state.
Look at how people forget the past. It's an annoying human phenomenon which politicians take shrewd advantage of. Of course, immediately upon the creation of a Palestinian state, the Palestinians would try to live in peace with Israel. But would that be their long term strategy? Given the historical record, they would act slowly, methodically, allowing the years to pass (and the past forgotten) and new political realities to replace those of the old, before they embarked on the final and definitive stage of Israels elimination. Just as the political realities of Israel's creation have been decontextualized, and the perspective which reigned after the '48 war and '67 and '73 wars have been supplanted by new perspectives, so to would the context of negotiations which led to the creation of a Palestinian state be forgotten 10 or 15 years later by the conditions set by a new political reality.
The Palestinians, or rather, Arab Muslims (since it endemic to their culture) have a superiority complex: no Jews in Dar Al Islam. Sure, there are moderates who would want to live peaceably with Israel, but since these moderates exist in an immoderate, power-first society, they are quickly marginalized and neutered by the forces of Islamism. Islamism would gain power; Islamism would determine Palestinian policy. And Islamism would seek to destroy Israel, just as they've promised and stated over and over again.
Thus, Israel's building of settlements is really a long term strategy. Israel has no real interest in a 2 state solution because they can't help understanding that a two state solution would just bring Palestinians one step closer to destroying Israel. They are thus forced into the uncomfortable position of feigning and interest in a 2 state solution, while maintaining, and if a pretext arises, expanding their settlements in the west bank. Of course, Israeli political authority is in no way immutable. Sharon divested from the Gaza strip and uprooted Jewish communities, which most Israelis - especially those on the right - rightly opposed. Now, Hamas rules there; now, Hamas shoots rockets from there. Gaza provides a very clear cut microcosmic example for where a two state solution would likely lead: to the empowerment of Islamists, and new and more serious threats to the safety of Israel's population.
Good faith exists in high numbers only on one side. The Israelis have launched organizations galore for the purpose of promoting the cause of peace. But what of the Palestinians? It's dangerous for moderates to speak freely amongst Islamists about their desire to coexist with Israel.
I definitely understand that there are two sides to every position, and this is the downside to the one state solution policy.
But what does that reflect? Think about it for a second. What base would the Palestinians be working from if they intend to carry out this elaborate strategy against Israel? Answer: the predominant base. The policy which seeks Israels destruction would exist regardless of a 2 state of 1 state solution. Either situation has it's pros and cons.
In my opinion, the problem is less extreme with a one state solution than it would be with a Palestinian state.
Look at how people forget the past. It's an annoying human phenomenon which politicians take shrewd advantage of. Of course, immediately upon the creation of a Palestinian state, the Palestinians would try to live in peace with Israel. But would that be their long term strategy? Given the historical record, they would act slowly, methodically, allowing the years to pass (and the past forgotten) and new political realities to replace those of the old, before they embarked on the final and definitive stage of Israels elimination. Just as the political realities of Israel's creation have been decontextualized, and the perspective which reigned after the '48 war and '67 and '73 wars have been supplanted by new perspectives, so to would the context of negotiations which led to the creation of a Palestinian state be forgotten 10 or 15 years later by the conditions set by a new political reality.
The Palestinians, or rather, Arab Muslims (since it endemic to their culture) have a superiority complex: no Jews in Dar Al Islam. Sure, there are moderates who would want to live peaceably with Israel, but since these moderates exist in an immoderate, power-first society, they are quickly marginalized and neutered by the forces of Islamism. Islamism would gain power; Islamism would determine Palestinian policy. And Islamism would seek to destroy Israel, just as they've promised and stated over and over again.
Thus, Israel's building of settlements is really a long term strategy. Israel has no real interest in a 2 state solution because they can't help understanding that a two state solution would just bring Palestinians one step closer to destroying Israel. They are thus forced into the uncomfortable position of feigning and interest in a 2 state solution, while maintaining, and if a pretext arises, expanding their settlements in the west bank. Of course, Israeli political authority is in no way immutable. Sharon divested from the Gaza strip and uprooted Jewish communities, which most Israelis - especially those on the right - rightly opposed. Now, Hamas rules there; now, Hamas shoots rockets from there. Gaza provides a very clear cut microcosmic example for where a two state solution would likely lead: to the empowerment of Islamists, and new and more serious threats to the safety of Israel's population.
Good faith exists in high numbers only on one side. The Israelis have launched organizations galore for the purpose of promoting the cause of peace. But what of the Palestinians? It's dangerous for moderates to speak freely amongst Islamists about their desire to coexist with Israel.
edit
on 5-12-2012 by dontreally because: (no reason given)
reply to post by CALGARIAN
lol @ too deeply.
Surely you are wiser than that. It's intelligible. That's all that matters.
lol @ too deeply.
Surely you are wiser than that. It's intelligible. That's all that matters.
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
I think I found the flaw in that plan. It's in Step 3:
-get world to provide 'air cover' to protect from Israeli response an to topple the Israeli govt.
Israel has a response to this. It's called the Samson Option. If it looks like Israel cannot defeat a given threat militarily, they will use their nuclear weapons against the enemy nation. Israel has missiles that can reach Moscow or Rome. And there's also their space program - theoretically, they could deliver a warhead to anywhere on Earth.
I think I found the flaw in that plan. It's in Step 3:
-get world to provide 'air cover' to protect from Israeli response an to topple the Israeli govt.
Israel has a response to this. It's called the Samson Option. If it looks like Israel cannot defeat a given threat militarily, they will use their nuclear weapons against the enemy nation. Israel has missiles that can reach Moscow or Rome. And there's also their space program - theoretically, they could deliver a warhead to anywhere on Earth.