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Originally posted by Hijinx
as everyone has their own views and beliefs and i didn't want it to boil down to a thread about a soul existing or not based on beliefs alone.
...
I was wondering how we could go about proving the existence of a soul?
Originally posted by Wertdagf
Strange that none of what you said supports the belief in an afterlife.
Originally posted by Wertdagf
Seems like kinda a waste to make an entire post about me. Unless there was some sort of alterior motive in doing so.
I am telling you it doesnt exist.
Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by Hijinx
I've read about such studies before and recognise GUT's example. So I tried to think of an analogy and came up with trying to measure the difference between an empty hard-drive and one that's been filled full of data - it doesn't work as nothing is ever added, it just moves data around. When unplugged (dead), the disc (body) holds the same data (weight).
As an extension of that analogy, perhaps a soul would be more akin to the 'internet' being plugged in to a machine? In that case, there's I/O traffic going on continuously and when the internet is disconnected we're left with the HD the same weight as ever. Simultaneously, the internet continues to exist and includes at least some of the data inputted by the now *dead* computer.
Maybe book analogy works better? In that frame, we'd be like a book that has all the words removed and how could we weigh that difference?
Maybe an idea is to use super-colliders? You take avictimvolunteer who has little time left and install them in the interior of a particle-accelerator. Then you monitor their life-signs until the familiar death-signature is written on the monitor screens. At that moment, you blast the crap out of them and see what particles get pinged?! Yeah sure, the notional soul might be very pissed off at such white-coated pioneerism and vision, but hey, it's all part of the soul's journey right?!
*If* we did find evidence for something like a 'soul,' it'd certainly shake us all up a little. We'd immediately have a dichotomous awareness knowing that our organic senses are thinking one thing and knowing that something else is piggy-backing us and thinking something else. In a way, it might be like split-brain patients and their 24/7 knowledge of the two hemispheres having distinctly different experiences of the same stimuli.
I'd suppose also that discovering evidence of a 'soul' wouldn't be proof of anything more than the existence of an energy of unknown intent and origin. It wouldn't be *proof* of [pick a religion]. We'd have to use some extraordinary rendition to water-board one in the LHC until it spills the goods!
Originally posted by Observationalist
Only one time I saw a dead body, it was my grandmas. It was in the hospital after they pulled her breathing apparatus. I remember getting ready to walk not that room not sure what to expect. I wasn't close with her so there was not much emotion but It was quite disturbing to see her lifeless body. She looked like a zombie costume, an empty bag of bones, a lifeless object. She could have been a sheet, a cup or the pen in the cup. She, i mean it was meaningless.
Her soul was not present in that room. If we can recognize the lack of soul wouldn't that prove the existence of the soul.
I think about how when will talk with someone who is alive, "that's not like you " or "she doesn't seem like herself".
Are we in tune with something deeper or are we just observing inconsistency in expected patterns of behavior.
Was because my grandma did not sit up and turn her head to acknowledge my presence my cue that she was without a soul, or was there deeper connection that was missing.
Wow, I haven't revisited that memory in a while, sorry I rambled a bit.
I'm a Christian by the way, so I have my own reasons to believe we have souls, but I love your approach to the question of soul.
While I was writing this post, the song below was playing. I thought it appropriate for the mood.
Originally posted by qmantoo
It would be far better to develop a way to measure energy. From orgone to spirits to the enrgy which surrounds all living things, we have no way to measure it or detect it yet as far as I know. Once you manage this, you can determine all kinds of "proofs' which science requires to "validate" something. It is the height of arrogance to put science's approval on something anyway. Why should we need that approval to know that it was experienced or real?
If you managed this, you would also probably pick up James Randi's million bucks for proving 'something' ESP/energy/ghosties/whatever exists. Thats better than a poke in the eye and may provide some motivation.
I think the first thing to do is to go speak with some Russians as they are well up in this field, and they have developed the Kirlian (photography) and related technologies and even use them for diagnosis already.
Of course, once you have discovered the way to measure those different kinds of energy, the military may be interested in you as well since you will be interfering with their technologies and once measured will expose their secrets.
Originally posted by GypsK
Originally posted by Hijinx
as everyone has their own views and beliefs and i didn't want it to boil down to a thread about a soul existing or not based on beliefs alone.
...
I was wondering how we could go about proving the existence of a soul?
proving the existence of a soul? I don't think we are anywhere near that yet.
Personally I do believe in a soul/afterlife, because of my personal experiences.
But unfortunately, a lot of my experiences are disregarded by scientists or doctors and they write them off with some kind of 'physical cause' explenation.
The irony is that they can't show me, or proof to me, this so called physical cause either! But they are doctors so they must be right! right?
In my family everyone knows I have an interest in this topic, so years ago I asked everyone to try and make contact after they die, should they be able to....
A lot of them have died in the mean time, none of them made contact.... or at least nothing that would give absolute proof. I've been quite depressed over this.
The soul? for me it's a 'knowing', I'm sure the soul exists and I'm not a religious person.
If it doesn't, then my dead is the end of me and I won't be suffering from that... so there is no harm in believing.
great topic s&f
Originally posted by WhoKnows100
In a world which has convinced the majority that "scientific proof" and "experience" is required in order to fully believe something, we are just set up for accepting the son of perdition. Why? Because that "scientific proof", like the purported 21 gram difference, may demonstrate that something does leave the body at the moment of death, but it will give you no additional information. It will never tell you that if that spirit isn't in Christ through being born again, it will perish.
God tells us that we are three parts - body, soul and spirit. The soul is the mind, emotions and will and it's the spirit that gives life to the soul and body. It is the soul (mind, emotions and will) which must be purified to and through the Truth, the Word - "be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." It is only the Word of God that divides the soul and spirit. Those who do not believe do not have the spirit of Christ within them, therefore upon death, they are not in the Lamb's Book of Life.
Please understand why the occult only preaches that we are two parts -body and soul. When they speak of spirituality, they speak of the soul only - the consciousness, the intellect, the mind and the emotions. It's why pleasure in the flesh and mind are promoted because they preach the soul only, it's why they worship the penis and man as "god" instead of the Creator. The movement within science, "quantum physics", is but the movement of science to prove further existence, a realm of "universal consciousness". It will give the world "proof". as the President of Iran recently stated about his Imam Mahdi by "opening the gates of science and knowledge". Unfortunately the "proof" that this arm of science will give you will jive with the occult, not with your Creator. Today, millions astral travel and awaken their consciousness, never once understanding that the delusions and vain imaginations of their mind and heart produce false visions and encounters with beings which are alternately aliens, spirit guides, ascended masters and even humans from our past and future!
Please, don't focus on "proof". You've been indoctrinated to believe that "proof" is required before you can believe in anything, and this is seen everyday on ATS by those whom state unequivocally that they cannot believe in the "bearded man in the sky" unless proof is given. Jesus said that the only proof this world would be given is the sign of Jonah and that it is solely the Father who grants that belief. But yet, man still demands physical proof and refuses to humble themselves in prayer seeking Him for belief. Why? Because their soul - their mind, intellect, emotions and will - rules them. The soul wants to be like god, defining good and evil for himself based on emotions of pleasure and the senses instead of by God's righteousness and justice. The world's proof, like the supposed 21 grams, will teach you none of this. It may "prove" that something within the body departs upon death, but it will only be used in support of the occult's push for "global consciousness" known by many names today. In fact, it is already used in many New Age writings to justify the genocide of all who will refuse the new world order - the new rising "unity of consciousness". These writings preach that it's not actually murder or genocide because those who must be eliminated will "just move on as we all do". This is why the occult science will "prove" an afterlife.
"Proof" is what Godless men give you to control your mind and actions. "Faith" is what the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob bestows to save you.
Originally posted by Hijinx
Albert Einstein, one of the worlds greatest minds proclaimed he would be nothing with out imagination and wonder.
Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Xaphan
I suppose if you look at an atheistic reality from the perspective of a psychopath.
What happens if i say these things dont exist and i turn out to be right? Does that mean anything to you?
We can be certain about a great majority of things the notion of certainty that your throwing around is useless. I KNOW there is no Afterlife because there is not even a small possiblity of it existing and the very nature of the suggestion seems childish from the start.
All of these unsupportabe claims made by mystics dont deserve a single bit of value.edit on 29-11-2012 by Wertdagf because: (no reason given)