Gay 'Conversion Therapy' Faces Test in Courts

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posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 06:08 PM
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Gay 'Conversion Therapy' Faces Test in Courts


www.nytimes.com

In New Jersey on Tuesday, four gay men who tried the therapy filed a civil suit against a prominent counseling group, charging it with deceptive practices under the state’s Consumer Fraud Act.

The former clients said they were emotionally scarred by false promises of inner transformation and humiliating techniques that included stripping naked in front of the counselor and beating effigies of their mothers. They paid thousands of dollars in fees over time, they said, only to be told that the lack of change in their sexual feelings was their own fault.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 06:08 PM
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I like that - "consumer fraud" - pretty much the same as getting Capone for tax evasion


I think a lot more "fringe" activites should face this sort of test - for all eth public is being ripped off by large organisations we are also being ripped of by claims that various "alternative" products do things they don't which we mostly jsut accept without bothering to test for truth!

www.nytimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 07:37 PM
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Can't say I know any gay guys, your own to your own I say, but for even gay people, this has got to be some kind of joke:



The former clients said they were emotionally scarred by false promises of inner transformation and humiliating techniques that included stripping naked in front of the counselor and beating effigies of their mothers.


I mean any technique for whatever reasons involving that has got to be some kind of joke
edit on 28-11-2012 by Zcustosmorum because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 07:54 PM
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People who think gays are somehow sick and can be cured are actually the ones who need therapy.I think perhaps just councelling instead of restraining jacket like they'd really deserve.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 08:11 PM
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I think all those falling victim to these kinds of people should start their own group, offering help to those "afflicted with Religious insanity". It would be easy to cure them with science and facts, but might take a little time for some of those indoctrinated into their cult at an early age


And I agree that there should be a crackdown on false claims, it is fraud. From the yoghurt that's apparently supposed to make your natural digestive system miraculously better (no, just stop eating processed rubbish!) to the religions and groups like this offing BS excuses for taking people's money ($cientology being one of the most criminal of all), they all need to be targeted and made to pay for the fraud they perpetrate.

If someone sells a copy of something else they can be charged and convicted, but these freaks get away with robbing people every day without so much as a warning. It's messed up.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by Zcustosmorum
Can't say I know any gay guys, your own to your own I say, but for even gay people, this has got to be some kind of joke:



The former clients said they were emotionally scarred by false promises of inner transformation and humiliating techniques that included stripping naked in front of the counselor and beating effigies of their mothers.


I mean any technique for whatever reasons involving that has got to be some kind of joke
edit on 28-11-2012 by Zcustosmorum because: (no reason given)


But of course, like all these con schemes, that comes later, after you've already invested time and money and told everyone you know that it really isn't just a scam. All the big scammers save the real deal for later, once they have you hooked with either embarrassment or a stubborn determination to finish.

If you'd invested thousands of $'s and months of your life into something like this, it's harder to walk away from it when they finally hit you with the crazy stick.

$cientology does exactly the same, the fake "training" programs do the same, the "earn millions a year" scams do the same... it's all a carefully constructed plan to get you invested, hooked, and then make you either give up when they've sucked you dry of everything they can get, or (like the $cientology cult) they make you a slave to convert others to feed off of.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 



Caveat Emptor





"There's a sucker born every minute"
P. T. Barnum (1810–1891)


I dunno...

Sometimes I feel that if people are foolish enough to believe some of the things they get wrapped up and invest in without first investigating then that's their own damned fault.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 08:27 PM
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Stories like these are why I have utter contempt for this so called science. The practices they listed in the article are sick. What I don't understand is why the "patients" follow "orders" when they oppose such practices. The two men that run the place are not licensed as therapists. The patients cannot be legally forced to do such things as far as I am aware. Even if they were licensed I would refuse to perform such utterly ridiculous actions. Beat effigies of my parents? Come on!! Strip on their order? Go to Hell!! That type of behavior cannot be productive in any way. The therapy predictably fails and the directors pocket all the money and blame the patient for their failure. How convenient.

The type of therapy I oppose are things like this, or worse. Therapy that is guided by drugs, strange practices like those in the article and, the belief that human beings are purely biological creatures guided by the brain and nothing but the brain. Primarily, the practices pioneered by Wilhelm Wundt. It is an abomination.

In my opinion, therapy is effective only in a social and philosophical manner. Group therapy where people discuss their problems openly and without fear can be very productive and completely cure individuals. I know for sure that open, honest discussions in a comfortable environment helped me resolve personal issues. Philosophical discussion groups led by therapists or non-therapists alike have great success.

One sentence in that article did strike a familiar chord with me. My father was and is, in fact, a distant father. My mother was and is, in fact, overbearing. That behavior did create sexual identity confusion in me during my early to late teens. The ramifications being that I was a slow learner when it came to establishing an intimate, caring and close relationship with women. I am aware that every human being is unique in their own...errr....unique way.....so who am I to say that such parenting could or could not lead to distinct sexual behavior? My unique "parenting" certainly caused me distress in my formative years.

The sad thing is that these activities are not of the "Fringe" variety. They are uncommon at best. I wish I had the knowledge to help in these matters. About the only thing I can say is to be vigilant. Completely research the credentials of any type of therapists, counselor, psychiatrist or psychologist if forced to come into formal contact with one. Know your legal rights. Use them with alacrity if placed into a situation against your will. This last bit is kind of off-topic, I know, but I think it is important. In any case, don't take my word for it. Do your own research into the subject and come to ones own conclusions.

Finally, excuse my long-winded approach to this topic. The plight of the men in the article struck a chord with me. Stories like these will continue and very likely grow if not checked. I don't think many people are aware that the oppressive commitment laws that are used today by psychologists are descended from the ideas and theories promoted by Wilhelm. I have seen a few topics on this site addressing this issue. The power granted to these psychologists is draconian.

I hope these men are successful in their legal action against the two directors. The way the men were treated is abysmal.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 08:31 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
.

Sometimes I feel that if people are foolish enough to believe some of the things they get wrapped up and invest in without first investigating then that's their own damned fault.



The big problem is - - parents forcing their minor children into these reparative therapy groups.

Calif made it illegal for professionals to use reparative therapy on minors.

Unfortunately - - that does not apply to non-professionals - - such as religious groups.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul


I like that - "consumer fraud" - pretty much the same as getting Capone for tax evasion


I think a lot more "fringe" activites should face this sort of test - for all eth public is being ripped off by large organisations we are also being ripped of by claims that various "alternative" products do things they don't which we mostly jsut accept without bothering to test for truth!

www.nytimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)




I agree , I say get em. If they knowingly are pushing a cure
for something they cannot . Fair game.
I bet through records the outcomes
wouldn't pan out for these organizations .
Although there will always be that one in a hundred that'll say,
"yep totally worked for me"



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 09:42 PM
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Unfortunately, one of the ways religion keeps a hold on people to preach intolerance to a certain extent...

If a religious group were to tell everyone that their belief system is no superior to others, and we should view people with leniency, it would be compromising their own recruitment.


Fundamentalist religious beliefs have a lot to do with the mistreatment of homosexuals...we've had plenty of advancements in philosophy, particularly social philosophy, since the time scripture was written.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 10:13 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


I can see that and understand and agree about minors but this story is about grown gay men who tried the "Therapy" Why even bother? They knew they were gay so why try the therapy in the first place? Were they not comfortable with being gay? This may have been better handled by a qualified therapist. One who would help them be comfortable with who they are inside. It just sounds odd to me.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Annee
 


I can see that and understand and agree about minors but this story is about grown gay men who tried the "Therapy" Why even bother? They knew they were gay so why try the therapy in the first place? Were they not comfortable with being gay? This may have been better handled by a qualified therapist. One who would help them be comfortable with who they are inside. It just sounds odd to me.




If you think you are gay and grow up in a very religious area of the country - - the self hatred alone would make you seek for the magic cure.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 10:29 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 01:10 AM
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It seems to have worked on Justin Beiber. Have you guys seen that gf of his? Stunning



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 02:12 AM
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Yes I agree that this sucks.

To those yelling for the Government to do something, please stop and think!

A good publicity campaign would be good, but legislation, not good at all.

The problem is where do you stop on the slippery slope. You already have legislation on prescription drugs being used by big pharma to destroy the competition. Next will be some idiot bureaucrats telling Councillors and psychologists what forms of tools to use because one size fits all.

Most of this type of problem can be handled by suing the Bs and by education. There will always be an idiot born every minute and it is not societies job to help them along the path of life. Doing this stuffs up the journey for the rest of us.

We need less not more legislation.

P



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 07:50 AM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Strange that you should bring this Topic today on ATS because I have just seen this Article in the sun:

www.thesun.co.uk...

Definately worth read for those who believe that certain drugs are turning people Gay!!!

Pills turned this man into a Gay Sex Addict!!!

He has ben awarded 166,000 from Glaxo Smith Kline as they didnt tell him al the side effects!!!



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 08:06 AM
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I'm amazed this "therapy" is still legal in the first place. All the research indicates that at best it is completely ineffective, at worst it leads to long time psychological issues. Now if it was just ineffective I would have no problem with it. Sure it would be sleazy and based on outdated beliefs but neither of those are a legal issue. As it stands though these people are essentially making a living off ruining people's lives.



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by pheonix358
To those yelling for the Government to do something, please stop and think!

A good publicity campaign would be good, but legislation, not good at all.


I don't think anyone is asking for new legislation, just the enforcement of existing laws.

It is fraud, and fraud is illegal. But in this case that law is not being used to control fraudulent practices and those perpetrating the crime are being permitted to get away with it.

All people are asking for is that the authorities use the existing powers they have to stop these con men from continuing to rob people and psychologically damage them. The laws are there, but the state should be using them against these people rather than victims having to fight back with their own money.

If these victims win this case, they should consider going after the state for allowing this illegal practice to continue. The state knows about this, they know it is illegal, and they are allowing it to continue. The state is criminally negligent and should face the consequences.

If the police drove by the drug dealers on the corner every day for a year, you'd expect the community to be outside the police station screaming for an investigation into corruption. This is the same in my opinion. These people are breaking laws and defrauding people for personal financial gain, and the police and state seem to be turning a blind eye to it.

Maybe it'll take these victims going after the police and state to actually force others to take this seriously?





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