The Palestinians' UN ploy is just the latest stalling tactic

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posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 02:27 PM
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The Palestinians' UN ploy is just the latest stalling tactic


www.telegrap h.co.uk

Israelis and Palestinians alike tell the same joke: the Israeli/Palestinian leader asks God: “Lord, will there ever be peace in the Middle East? Will it happen in my lifetime?” God answers: “Yes, of course, there will be peace. But not in my lifetime.”

Frustration at the failure to reach a negotiated solution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict creates an understandable thirst for alternative approaches. One such approach is resurfacing at the moment: the Palestinian initiative to achieve unilateral recognition at the United Nations. In yesterday’s Daily Telegraph, the former Pal
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 02:27 PM
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edit: ***I remain completely neutral on this matter***


You will all have heard or will soon hear about Spain's plan to back Palestine's move to join the U.N



edit: decided to remove the backlash bit, since people were misreading it.



Hamas, which took control of Gaza in 2007 and is backed by Iran, is so consumed with hatred for Israel that it has repeatedly resorted to violence, no matter the cost to its own people.


Gaza militants have fired between 750 to 800 rockets into Israel this year
Nobel Peace Laureates are now calling for military embargo of Israel.


Thoughts ATS.


SS

www.telegrap h.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)
edit on 023030p://pm3059 by Spike Spiegle because: spells
edit on 033030p://pm3003 by Spike Spiegle because: ***
edit on 033030p://pm3020 by Spike Spiegle because: edit


+3 more 
posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 02:35 PM
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Thoughts?

I'm thinking...you CANNOT be seriously trying to slate Palestinians and Iranians, SO soon after your friends in Israel just bombed the hell out of Gaza.

I'm also thinking in Israeli propaganda circles, it isn't a secret that as soon as airstrikes are launched by Israel, as soon as Israel commits wholesale slaughter of innocent men, women and children using grossly disproportionate levels of weaponry and violence, Israeli Propgandists and apologists are usually VERY quick in trying to deflect any responsibility or deserved international hostility onto ANYONE else but themselves...that's what i'm thinking.

But...i'm sure you're thinking something different.


+3 more 
posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 02:40 PM
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It's a fact that Israel kills way more people on it's raids than Hamas, and it's not because hides amidst civilians, it is simply because the weaponry that Israel gets from the USA is more effective and more devastating than the small un-guided rockets the Hamas is firing randomly into Israel.
And no... as such Hamas does not have advanced weaponry from Iran. We would have seen a whole new level of destruction if that was the case.

Israels problem is that once the Observer status has been passed tomorrow, Israel is most likely going to be accused of warcrimes... and with all fairness.

The further issues are that the USA will, without a shred of doubt, be implicated in these crimes through investigation.

The USA is not a saint... it's not a hero country.... not a saviour of this Earth. It is a greedy selfish country that under the false pretence of spreading democracy and freedom, lashes out at independent states that does not want to yield under the iron fist of the corporatism and fascism that is yet again controlled through Zionism.

The ultimate goal in the middle east can ONLY be:

In time force both the Israelis and the palestinians to respect one another and have them live under equal rights for all in one country.
OR
In time, allow the Palestinians to become full members of the UN so that the conflict can be entirely put down.

We do not owe Israel or the Zionists ANYTHING... we do however owe the world to gaze towards peace and CO-EXISTANCE rather than cater to the will of greedy psychopaths who continuously refer to FAKE, MADE UP, MYTHS of religious text and let that guide their way.
People who 70 years later still try to make us eat the cold soup of deceit, martyrdom and pity to have their way with us.

But enough is enough, and tomorrow will set that in stone!


EDIT: Edited because of misunderstanding the OP.
edit on 28/11/12 by flice because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 02:40 PM
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reply to post by Spike Spiegle
 


I do not see how your commentary has anything to do with the article you sourced in your OP.

All I see is someone taking the opportunity to justify Israel's murderous excursions into Gaza while getting a chance to put down the Palestinians as well.

Perhaps I am wrong but that is my take on it.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by MysterX
 


I wish to remind everyone, that I remain completely neutral on this matter.

I don't back Israel anymore then I do the Palestinians.

You guys get so mad, so quick, so quick to judge...

I simply stated some facts.





SS
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edit on 023030p://pm3023 by Spike Spiegle because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Spike Spiegle
reply to post by MysterX
 


I wish to remind everyone, that I remain completely neutral on this matter.

I don't back Israel anymore then I do the Palestinians.





SS
edit on 023030p://pm3004 by Spike Spiegle because: the


EDIT: I'm sorry, I owe you an apology and I completely retract me calling you a pro-israel sheeple.... I was too fast at reading and I see now you mention the atrocities on both sides.
I stand corrected.
edit on 28/11/12 by flice because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by flice
 


If it appears like that, I'm sorry.

But


Like I said I am completely neutral when it comes to this, when I say " thoughts" all I really wanted was your thoughts on the matter, no your personal opinion on or about me.


edit:No problem,I know this is a heated topic.

SS
edit on 023030p://pm3009 by Spike Spiegle because: edit



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 02:47 PM
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The sub-title of the article is rather pathetic (not directed towards you OP).


There is no path to statehood for the Palestinians except through negotiation with Israel


What a crock of #

Israel does not want negotiations, when they portray the false illusion of wanting negoations they make ridiculous demands that they know the Palestinians will not agree with so they can say "hey, we tried, but the Palestinians don't want peace".




posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by Spike Spiegle
reply to post by flice
 


If it appears like that, I'm sorry.

But


Like I said I am completely neutral when it comes to this, when I say " thoughts" all I really wanted was your thoughts on the matter, no your personal opinion on or about me.


SS


Yes, I concur... it was uncalled for.

Well, my opinion on the OP matter still stands.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
The sub-title of the article is rather pathetic (not directed towards you OP).


There is no path to statehood for the Palestinians except through negotiation with Israel


What a crock of #

Israel does not want negotiations, when they portray the false illusion of wanting negoations they make ridiculous demands that they know the Palestinians will not agree with so they can say "hey, we tried, but the Palestinians don't want peace".



Yes, but that ship wont continue sailing for long. It has been rusting for a long time and reaching it's final port, where the locals will chop it up and rid of it like a wet zionist newspaper.

My feeling and from what I see on the social networks is that people in general are finally waking up and beginning to be fed up with Israels behavior.
All this "this year we remember what happened x years ago and because of that you know we aren't capable or doing bad things....."

Slowly people are learning that there's a difference between zionists and jews and that there is no shame in scolding the zionists. This knowledge also helps people see through the foolish name calling and labelling people like anti-semitic just because they are against those who threaten world security and peace.

I honestly believe that Abbas wants this thing to be over... and I honestly believe that the palestians in general wants this to be over. Why would anyone not just want a life in peace to do things freely and live like any other person on the planet should be allowed to? That's what I want... I don't see them wanting anything different. We are the same....



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 03:15 PM
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reply to post by Spike Spiegle
 


Here's the subtitle from the OP article:


There is no path to statehood for the Palestinians except through negotiation with Israel


Ummm...disagree completely. Palestinians have to seek every bit of international support they can, because negotiating with Israel will lead nowhere unless combined with the leverage of international pressure.


In yesterday’s Daily Telegraph, the former Palestinian foreign minister, Nabeel Shaath, demanded that “Britain atone for its sins” and support this move. This would be a serious setback for peace.



The current UN initiative is another in a long line of evasive tactics to avoid coming to the table and making tough choices. As David Cameron clearly put it: “There is no path to statehood except through talks with Israel. So if the Palestinian plan is simply posturing with the UN rather than negotiating with Israel, Britain will never support it.” Anyone who truly cares for real peace should say the same.


Yeah...here is the flaw in Palestine's diplomatic efforts. On the one hand, they must continually paint the West as evil for military recruiting purposes. On the other, a solution will inevitable come from an agreement with those same evils.

They need to stop being so stringent about demonizing the other side and fighting until an agreement is made. The better approach is drawing attention to their own people's struggles, and not the evils of their adversary.

Reaching out for support from the UN is a good idea, as long as it's done in a true spirit of alliance. Many around the world do sympathize with the Palestinian's situation, but as long as their rhetoric concerns the international community it is difficult to support them.

As long as there is little official support internationally for Palestine, Israel has no reason to negotiate seriously.



Great series of international threads recently Spike



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by PatrickGarrow17
 


Thank you and well said


The first few replies had me thinking ; dear god I'm in a heap of trouble now!

Don't shoot the messenger.


SS
edit on 033030p://pm3041 by Spike Spiegle because: =)



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
The sub-title of the article is rather pathetic (not directed towards you OP).


There is no path to statehood for the Palestinians except through negotiation with Israel


What a crock of #

Israel does not want negotiations, when they portray the false illusion of wanting negoations they make ridiculous demands that they know the Palestinians will not agree with so they can say "hey, we tried, but the Palestinians don't want peace".



Thats definately a double sided coin. The Palestinians dont want just a little bit more room, they want all of it, and they will not stop fighting until they get it all.

The Palestinians dont want peace with the Jews. They want the Jews gone.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 03:31 PM
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Explanation: S&F!

Hmmm!


Ok ... The article linked in the OP is authored by ...


Daniel Taub is Israel’s ambassador to Britain


Obvious Bias is Obvious!

So now we are all aware of who authored it ... I here provide ANOTHER telegraph.co.uk article authored by ...


David Blair
David Blair became Chief Foreign Correspondent of the Daily Telegraph in November 2011. He previously worked for the paper as Diplomatic Editor, Africa Correspondent and Middle East Correspondent.


Why the Palestinian UN bid puts William Hague in a tricky position (By David Blair Last updated: November 28th, 2012) [blogs.telegraph.co.uk]


First, a word on what this means. The Palestinians already have “observer” status at the UN, but this gives them a delegation in New York and not much else. Upgrading this by one notch to “observer state” – the same status as the Vatican – would give them access to the UN’s agencies and, crucially, the right to apply for membership of the International Criminal Court (ICC). They could, in theory, use this position to get the ICC to investigate Israel for war crimes. In the words of one Israeli diplomat, the aim would be to open a “new arena against Israel in international fora”.



And Britain? Well, this is where things get complicated. On the one hand, Britain has the same position as France on Palestinian statehood, so in theory London should simply vote in favour. But America is adamantly opposed to Abbas’s move – and Britain is deeply unwilling to break with its closest ally. So the Palestinian application neatly impales London on the horns of a dilemma. Vote in favour and break with the Americans? Or vote against and ignore the logic of Britain’s own position on Palestinian statehood?

So what’s the answer? Diplomats are paid to get around conundrums of this kind and William Hague has duly come up with a classic formula. Yes, Britain will support the Palestinian application, but only under certain conditions. First and foremost, he has asked Abbas to refrain from trying to join the ICC. In other words, the Palestinians must not open the door that most worries Israel and the US.


Please refer to BOTH articles for a FULL comparison ok!

Personal Disclosure: My thoughts are that the article linked in the OP is completely biased and that Israel is running scared and that Britain should continue to suffer the ghosts of empire haunting it for many centuries to come!



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by triune


The Palestinians dont want peace with the Jews. They want the Jews gone.


That could be right and I don't blame them.

If you were raped time and again by somebody staying in the same place as you would you be happy to continue to live alongside them ?



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by OmegaLogos
 


Well said OL and thanks for the post.

When I say; thoughts ATS

This is the kind of post I mean, clearly read the article and formed your own thoughts and opinions from there


By doing so, you got me thinking, which is the point of this thread.

stars for you


SS



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by Spike Spiegle

Gaza militants have fired between 750 to 800 rockets into Israel this year


Actually it was 2200 as of 21 November - wiki count

Wiki pages detailing annual attacks since 2000



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by bigyin

Originally posted by triune


The Palestinians dont want peace with the Jews. They want the Jews gone.


That could be right and I don't blame them.

If you were raped time and again by somebody staying in the same place as you would you be happy to continue to live alongside them ?


I'd be pissed off at the Arab Govt's who forced me to stay in run-down camps, but who seized the property of hundreds of thousands of Jews when they expelled them and wouldn't use it to compensate me.

and I might contrast this behaviour with the Israeli behaviour of allowing those same Jewish exiles to settle in Israel if they wanted to.

I'd bitterly resent being treated as nothing more than a political stick to beat Israel with over the decades.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by PatrickGarrow17
 





Palestinians have to seek every bit of international support they can, because negotiating with Israel will lead nowhere unless combined with the leverage of international pressure.


Rather obvious that Hamas and the Palestinians play the international community like a fiddle "they are just victims", and all that jazz.

After what 70 years of a failed war they seek someone else to do what they can't.

The truth is isreal could squash the Palestinians rather easily and quickly, but they haven't.

Reason is that "international community" no matter what isreal is the aggressor the Palestinians are the victims.

Funny part there is both Isreal and Palestine started that dance equally, no military one side built theirs the other outsourced to a religious fundamentalist group back by iran,and other arab countries.

Sure enough Isreal is backed by the Us(ok kind sort of until they were thrown under the bus)

So now the Palestinians outsourced yet again to the UN so I do have to agree with the Palestinian UN ploy is just to buy time for more rockets to be sent to Hamas.

And Irans proxy war using Hamas will continue to be used as another stall tactic to buy time for Iran to finish going nuclear.

All tho most people just see Isreal bad Palestine is good that is just the cover of the book a international game of chess is being played in the middle east.

By the arabs themsevles, eastern countries, as well as the west some people however need to take off their mypoic glasses and pay closer attention.
edit on 28-11-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)





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