God, Ancient Aliens or Mother Nature?

Let's see if I can make sense of my own inner-ramblings on this topic. First, condense God and Mother Nature into one entity, something undefinable that either a.) created the laws of nature b.) governs the laws of nature or c.) both yadda yadda.

That taken care of, the 'ohhhmmmmm' of creation that started everything (highly theoretical as I'm an agnostic, but definitely love alternative ideas!!) didn't just work on Earth, it would have had to be universal.. so God Tree Mama would have also created the Ancient Aliens.

THAT being said, there's too much evidence littering our planet that is 'unexplained' or 'ignored' by modern science and archaeology, and even when they do make a go of claiming coherent knowledge, more often than not said 'fact' gets re-worked a decade later based on new finds. Is it possible that humanity/civilization has gone through cycles? Absolutely. Given that our current timetable is 20,000 years at most for the beginning of our 'modern' civilization streak, yet we've "been around" for 300,000 years.. I find it hard to believe that for 93% or so of our existence we've been shufflin around not doing anything.

Then what, it took.. a lightning bolt? A stick that my great great great x384657349 grand daddy picked up to become a Scepter of Authoritah? And all of the sudden we (one or more groups of 'Us') started utilizing technology? To me there's something profoundly missing from that sort of timetable.. and it would be a catalyst to make us 'get up and go' so quickly.

That is.. unless there was a civilization/s that had ascended BEFORE the last 20,000 years and vanished because it destroyed itself (or was killed by a mass extinction event).. and instead of making a 7% time leap of awesomeness, we've actually repeatedly been technologically evolving, devolving, then evolving again..

Is there any actual evidence for that? Well.. the Indian Epics of Rama, the Mahabharata and so on all talk of nuclear war and flying machines. There are ruins in the Ganges River Valley that are now cordoned off due to high levels of radioactivity stemming from an ancient source.. Again.. Speculation. How could we have had nuclear weapons 10,000 years ago when we just invented them in the passed 100?

That, I cannot say for sure! But it's interesting to dwell on, even if for just a moment..

reply to post by Fimbulvetr


Well I'm impressed you pulled a few ideas I had floating around in my head and worded them better than I could

Very interesting

reply to post by SLAYER69


Thanks Slayer! I've kinda been floating around this site for a few weeks now reading all the interesting back-n-forths between people and finally clicked the dang sign-up button today. You always seem to have interesting topics and/or posts, and this was one I couldn't pass commenting on.

Random thought: In the baas relief you have in post 1 page 1, is that Ramesses II? -- Secondary to that.. isn't it odd how in THAT specific carving, his atef crown almost looks like it was intended to make the Pharaoh appear to have an elongated skull, say.. like an alien?

I know this might seem redundant, but this work at the chronicle project shows that all of it was terra formed.
They corrected the translation of the Bible using the embedded system for translation and what they got does not match what is in your bible.

www.thechronicleproject.org...

reply to post by SLAYER69


Slayer the evidence that you seek may just be Ourselves.

I am still waiting for the Junk DNA explanation and think maybe the concrete evidence of 'tinkering' will be found there. deep in genetic research data. Maybe we did the 'tinkering' ourselves in a previous technological society of earlier hominids, possibly ones other than sapien. If the Bigfoot DNA story has any merit,, seems interesting that it is put out as Human Woman, Some other Hominid Male start for them.

The genetic clash that happened when we wiped out the majority of other hominids is an open book of history that may only be found in myth and legend. (Gilgamesh comes to mind)

I think that a number of things actually have went on in our 'past'. Being I don't think of Time as Linear, I don't have a problem adding in the additional high strangeness of Time manipulation/travel that also could bring in the alternate Dimension aspects that brought me into this game to begin with and keeps me searching for the same answers you seek. In the end, I see Earth as a Living Being to have a relationship with, if only because in this experience I am playing human.

So, I believe in Nothing New Under the Sun. We have been here before in a technological state, and evidently "THEY" wiped themselves out of the game to the point of becoming legend and myth and leaving our ancestors as New Babes in the world to continue on towards the Singularity.

And According to some, here we are again come December to 'mark a date'. And as Humans what have we learned? I liked your visual on the history of Mankind ,,,, yep WARS we love em. I think that we are the Klingons. It takes us to the heights to crash and burn us again,, and like the phoenix we have rose repeatedly from the ashes of our 'past'. Can the cycle be broken?

I keep a quote where I see it everyday. It says:
An Assyrian clay tablet dating to around 2800 B.C. bears the inscription:
“Our Earth is degenerate in these later days; there are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end;
bribery and corruption are common; children no longer obey their parents;
every man wants to write a book and
the end of the world is evidently approaching.”

Like the fabled people of Mu, and Lemuria, not to mention Atlantis, technological society existed in the past and evidence that remains is iffy at best I agree, but have wondered. Maybe they we very environmentally conscious and only built with biodegradable, materials?
As an oldtime student of anthropology I realize that cultures can be advanced in many levels but appear primitive by modern standards today. Culturally these societies may have had a strict adherence to "worship/reverence" of Nature and kept within those 'primitive' boundaries.

More thinking outside of the box is what is needed to fill research gaps in this regards to finding evidence that satisfies modern scientific bias. This becomes difficult when we add into the mix the whole psychotropic Mind Tulpa of our Shamanic past.

Such as the Dreamtime. Or Terrence McKenna's theories of Mushroom Consciousness inside the mushrooms our ancestors tripped on, effecting evolution and our consciousness are interesting to follow. With '___' experiences Everyone See the Exact Same Beings, interesting.
Something is On the Other side of Consciousness, and we have yet to explore this in the detail needed to render a good answer to the Bicameral split that gave rise to Homo Sapien sapien speech and thought processes such as self consciousness and awareness. The Bon and the Tibetian Monks of Buddhist paths are way ahead on this research.

As far as the Alien theories, I am of course prejudiced by my own experiences in this realm which tosses me into the crowd of those who "Know" it true, not just believe it true. So the difficulty of not sounding insane when one is an Experiencer of this type phenomenon forces one to use age old methods to understand. This is why the New Age sold out the shamanic experience, but even out of that mess some gems arose.

The point being for myself, I have taken time to explore what other cultures offer as answers to these questions, and C.G. Jung was onto something with the Archetypes, I add in Tulpa / Meme / Thought Forms into the mix, recognizing the influence of each upon the Collective of Humanity which gave rise to our religions of Today and yesterday.

I believe we do Shape our Reality's so the Story will end with a very exciting thunder I am sure. Humans are just that way, always going Out with a bang. I would prefer an Inner Explosion of Knowledge and search within by humanity, but Modern Man / Womankind seems to want Death by War.

Sad.

But, thankfully my reality is Sychronistic and Magickal,, so things are really pretty kool here sitting,
Stirring my Quantum Alternate Reality soup, on my Lounge Chair Watching the end of the World.

I too am a skeptic believer. But I find this subject fascinating. I love the show Ancient Aliens and find many of their theories plausible. While others, are pretty far out there.

How was the Earth created? I'm also leaning towards a scientific response here - part of the Big Bang Theory or another great cosmic event that is beyond our knowledge or current technology. Perhaps we're not meant to know that answer.

How did we get here? I think I'm more a believer of science and evolution. There is far too much evidence to deny that as humans we have evolved over time.


Is there a God? I honestly don't know. Every religion and culture has different beliefs. I find the study of Theology fascinating. Some religions believe in one God, one Creator - while others believe in multiple Gods or Creators. But the one thing that all these religions have in common is that they all have received knowledge or gifts from "up there" - the sky. Were these messages received by true Gods? Or are Gods mistaken for beings from other planets?

I do have a theory that many others share. The universe is a pretty big place and it would be an awful waste of space if we were the only signs of intelligent life out there. Perhaps looking at some people in this world, we aren't the intelligent ones after all.

Added thought - Earth will always prevail. Earth always finds a way to adapt to even the harshest climates and life always finds a way to survive. I think in the end, Earth will continue to prevail and should it come to time to end, will go out the way she came in. With a Bang.

And that's my two cents on the subject. Good thread OP.

Our time here and now has no more significance than the breeze off a butterflies wing. We create our own limitations more than anything else. Sometimes I revel at our own inner natural instincts and behaviors. We are no more advanced today than we were ten thousand years ago. At the same time we fill our world up with so many choices that we are incapable of living true to our own ability. I think that the ancient technologies are tribute to a different perspective more than anything. We cannot understand how we were able to comprehend back then more than now because we have held on too tightly to a false sense of grandness. As a species we will be stuck in the dark ages until we learn to stop taking ourselves so seriously.

When you take a deeper look into the abilities that nature has gifted to the species of earth you can see that we are nothing special. The very same cognitive advances that have made us leap ahead so quickly may in turn out be our demise unless we get a handle on them, and quickly. We are fools to think that we are special or different from the animals we share this planet with. We use all of the same tools cognitively in our approach, and I challenge anyone to find some trait that we humans have that doesn't also belong to other species in some way or another.

I think that we need to take a really long deep look at the direction that evolution has taken the living things on this planet and ponder exactly where it might take us in the end if we don't wreck the place. Life evolves towards some kind of natural destination. What could it possibly be and how do we get there? Whether we were put here by God or aliens or just mother nature we owe it to our children to try and clean the place up a bit and figure that out. I would love to see the world leaders come together and say for the future generations that they are going to come together for a common goal. We have a wonderful opportunity and we need to realize it. How do we get to the point where our lifestyle will promote life and health into the future for the long term. How can we live in a way that lets us explore the human limits in a way that will be sustainable indefinitely? This is the place we need to be, and we need to be asking these questions now and be serious about accepting the answers whatever they may be.

Real science based policy in the places where it matters the most.

Long story short, I give it to Mother Nature hands down... I won't say for certain that God or Aliens haven't given us a gentle nudge though, from time to time, to time.

Slayer,
I am not sure how you are pulling this thread off but so far so good
No flaming as of yet and I hope it does not start with my post

My beliefs come from the Bible. Yet, when I read Genesis I see something that most people don't (not saying my way is right).
I have had this view for a very long time and it could be backed up with science. The more discoveries that are made about the ancient world the more truth I find in my theory, I will try and explain it as best as I can.

First I would like to explain my view:
As a Christian I believe the Bible, as it is written, yet I believe we must also look at what is not written, what does the bible leave out and why? What truths can be found therein and how does it relate to what we know today.
When I was younger, as I read the bible, I would have questions and many times I would not get an answer that suited me from other Christians.
The first question that bugged me was "Who did Cain marry?", this is what got me looking at what the bible actually says. A sister or an angel did not sit well with me. So I started looking deeper at what is actually written.

Now a word on the writings in Genesis. Many feel that this book was written by Moses yet the bible does not state that it was. In truth there may have been up to ten different author of Genesis.
No one was around to witness Chapter One so we know that God must have passed this information onto Adam and his descendants.
When this knowledge is passed from God to man, man would have had to put it in context that they and others would have understood. Imagine you trying to explain to a lost tribe in the Amazon how the computers of today are made and ask them to put it in their own words. They might get the gist of it or the outline but how much would be left out?
This is what has led to my thoughts on Creation and why I believe we have to look at what is not written as well as what is. I don't think I did a great job of explaining it but perhaps you will see what I mean as I explain my views on Creation and modern man.
This may take more than one post

A look at Genesis One and what I see when I read it.

1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
In the beginning God created time (beginning), space (heaven) and matter (earth).

(Day 3) 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

(Day 5) 20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

(Day 6) 24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Do you see what I see?

The first visible life on earth was probably plant life according to our understanding of biology. Basically this is what is written in the bible. On day three God created plant life (Remember that early man would have told this story from their view point).
Next, according to biology, simple life forms then more complex life forms would have "evolved" in the oceans.
This is the exact order we find in the bible so far. On day 5, God created all of the life in the oceans. Yet it also states that birds were made on the fifth day. I had a problem with this up until a few years ago.

A new study of ancient fossils suggests that birds are ancient enough that dinosaurs may have evolved from them. In fact, ancient raptors, usually classified as dinosaurs, may actually have been flightless birds.

io9.com...
and....

The paleontologist Sankar Chatterjee has recently described the fossil Protoavis, from Late Triassic deposits in Texas. Chatterjee claims that Protoavis is a true bird that is actually closer to modern birds than Archaeopteryx. If this is true, this would push the origin of birds back by about 80 million years. It would also show that the first birds lived at the same time as the earliest dinosaurs

www.ucmp.berkeley.edu...
Next we see on Day Six that God created all other life forms on earth, ending with man. This is encompassing a lot of information but basically it is what is found in biology and "evolution".

Continued in the next post.

Continued....
Once again we need to keep in mind the point of view of those who wrote this. It is a very simple outline of events, yet I honestly find it amazing that this was written thousands of years ago, and today we are coming to the same conclusions as to the order in which things came about.
Many will not see it as I do, but to me it is clear.

Let's now look at Chapter Two.
This is where I lose people.
I would love to make a thread on this and go into more detail but It would probably set peoples screens on fire from all the flaming it would get .
I have taken up enough of Slayers thread and will try to cut this short. Just think about what you read with an open mind.
OK then, here we go...........
Ground work......
Was Adam the first man or was he the first man with a soul?
A little background work is needed, so......
First lets look back to chapter one. On day five when God Created the creatures of the sea and the fowl of the air, we see this written in verse 20 "bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life".
On the sixth day we see this written in verse 24 "Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind" and verse 30 "wherein there is life"
There is a difference here. In chapter one it talks about "life" and "living". In chapter two we see something new. "7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
We see in Chapter one that God spoke and BROUGHT FORTH all life on earth. In chapter two we see that He FORMED Adam and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.
So what is the breath of life? This is the best I have seen it stated...

God breathed His own breath of life into man. Man is more than dust or physical substance. Man is spirit. We can picture it this way: Adam’s body had just been formed by God from the dust of the earth—a lifeless human body lying on the ground. Then God leaned over and breathed His own breath into the man’s nostrils; God breathed into man His own Spirit. This means that God has connected Himself to man in the most intimate way possible. Man is related to God and has the same breath as God, the breath of life.

www.gotquestions.org...

You may be asking by this point " So Quad, what is your point?"

Well here it is. I have always heard that Chapter two is an extension of chapter one. It tells the story of man after God created him and He rested on the seventh day.
I see this much different.
What I see is that God created man, male and female, told them to be fruitful, multiply and replenish the earth. he did this on day six before He rested.
After He rested on day seventh I believe that He formed Adam from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and Adam became a living soul.
The first humans God created were perhaps like the Neanderthals and were hunter gathers for "there was not a man to till the ground". It is my belief that these men did not have souls, they had life but not the breath of life.
God planted a garden called Eden and placed Adam in the Garden to tend it. Then God decides to give Adam a help meet. Here we see that chapter two is very different than chapter one.
In Chapter one we see everything made and lastly man before God rested.
In Chapter Two God formed Adam, put him in the Garden and created the animals and let Adam name them. These animals were in the garden with Adam, did they have the breath of life as well? If so this would explain much about events later in Genesis.
(running out of characters, gotta hurry now)
So, God creates Eve, they sin, are expelled from the Garden and start having kids. Cain kills Able, then God banishes him to the land of Nod. Cain is scared that the "others" will kill him so God marks him. He goes to Nod, knows his wife and they build a city.
Who would kill Cain? Who was his wife? Who helped him build the city?
Right before the story of Noah we see this written "And the sons of God looked upon the daughters of men and found them to be beautiful and took them for wives." Who were the sons of God.
This answer is found in Luke 3:38 "Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God."
It is my opinion that the sons of God were Adam's line, the other people in the world were Neanderthals created on day six.
There is evidence today that modern man did in fact mate with Neanderthal and traces of their DNA can still be found today.

I know this is drawn out and I hope it can be understood. I have been on night shift and have not had much sleep the past few days. If anyone wants more details or have questions I will be back on later. Now it is time for a shower and some sleep.
Peace
Quad

Hard to know the answer to this question because we have no point of comparison. That is, if you could compare the humanities development with other sentient species development you could form a basis of comparison but we have no points of comparison.

It's clear that ancient farming didn't involve a lot of conflict but once humanity began to discover metal and make weapons all hell broke lose. Maybe that's a natural result of being thrown out of our natural environment or maybe it's something else. Hard to say.

reply to post by SLAYER69

Well for me I think I find all three lacking.

Ditto. Why do we have to explain everything? Why must we decide whats what? Are we that impatient? I can imagine the first time some elder around a campfire was asked, "Where did we come from?" And the elder gestures to the starlit sky and sweeping his hand across the heavens, he says, "There".

Now add thousands of years of embellishment.

Modern campfire and an elder sweeps his hand across the night sky and replies, "And thats where we are going..."

reply to post by SLAYER69


Slayer

Thought provoking threads. I love them.

OK, So firstly, the Adam and Eve story, in its rawest form, using The Chronicle Projects unbiased raw restoration of Genesis suggests this Planet was terraformed by beings who were under a ruler being. They created Adam (another name for a Human) to look after the Planet BUT even in this version this Supreme being directs these Adam's to a land where the 'Gold is good' (They assume it is because it is good to make jewellery with but with Sitchins interpretation added this whole thing could be a cover story lie covering the beings demands to make us mine Gold).

Agriculture. Milk. 'Milk and Honey'. It is interesting that over half the worlds population is still lactose intolerant. At some point in time a mutation occurred that jammed the lactase production switch on and enabled some of us to consume milk permanently. What's also interesting is that it was only until the 'introduction' of agriculture that we started to consume grains, but with dense food supply there is the added bonus of increased population density. If the Ancient alien theory is real then it makes sense that they set-up and taught us these things so we could sufficiently assist their mining operations. Tribal nomads wouldn't make very good miners would they? Furthermore it is actually the less healthy way to live. Before Agriculture Humans would hunt their food (exercise), pick their fruits and nuts, dig their wild root vegetables. They would cook their meat and eat it. Then they would boil the left over bones into a broth that provided them with minerals and nutrients. Humans were their most healthiest then. With the introduction of agriculture came disease, came overeating. If nature was involved then this, technically, shouldn't have even happened. But nature was overruled. Overruled by beings here to serve their own purpose.

I firmly believe we, at the very least, were engineered from a lesser hominid by aliens to assist with their mining operations because the original beings tasked with the job refused to do it. I believe all these beings are bigger in height than us. I believe the Nephilim, offspring of the mating of aliens with humans, was actually an attempt to genetically engineer a giant worker race similar to those who rebelled but the experiment failed.

I'm humbled people

Short or long all the replies so far are putting forward many of the various ideas and thoughts I've had over the years on this topic.

I didn't realize so many had similar opinions or theories

reply to post by SLAYER69


And it's been a civilized discussion so far. There is hope for mankind after all.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I say it's a succession of all 3 - god > mother nature > ancient aliens. Because aliens don't just spring up out of the ground randomly.

Mother Nature wins my vote .... Even though ancient aliens sounds the coolest one of them all ....at then end I'm sure SCIENCE will give us ALL the answers!!!


OneWay

Excellent thread as always Slayer. I'm almost sorry this was a school night to see me getting here late to read it.

I guess I'll be the logical and process driven one of the bunch and look at this for the mystery and ...possibilities I believe a serious look into our own past and ancestry raise. First, I found something odd last year while doing all the Elenin research. I tripped over Sedna. A lonely little Planetoid out past Pluto with an 11,400 orbit time to closest pass. Now that matters for explaining how I came across the number for entering it in to see if the little guy might be known to travel in a group, so to speak. Never know with this being 2012 and all. A funny thing happened when I started running that date range though.... I discovered it nearly represents a wall in human history and what started as one line of research really bunny trailed on into a whole different one. I still have a couple over stuffed favorites folders simply named 11400 -1 and -2 for how many references came to be for almost EVERYTHING of a civilized nature "dating back" for known origin to that point, plus or minus a couple hundred years.

Now, I meander a bit, but I always have a point and there's a doozy on this one. There IS a huge void in our history and we can pretty well date it to a small year range....where nothing before of note or historical knowledge exists. No logical progression of the few hundred thousand years prior. The Ice age, glaciers and all the other world changes wiped it all out. The Egyptians were said to know of a historical record that's been lost to time, if it really existed....and as these tales go, true or not, talked of the advanced civilizations of the past as I recall reading.

Hints and whispers of a past exist. The tunnel worlds of Europe, Eurasia and they're discovering, beneath Peru and other areas down South. Cave level things and drawings date back before the 'erasure' point, as it almost seems to be. So one of two things are true. Either we were nothing but cavemen for a couple hundred thousand years before that......and somehow, crossed a tipping point of outrageous and radical progression almost immediately after the ice melted and the glaciers receded.... (Some estimates put the Pyramids at 10,000 years or so. That was quick in historic context) ...or there is truth to the legends and myths from ancient times speaking of a populated world before the ice age.

It's also worth noting that I recall a number of shows on Coast to Coast AM over the years that talked of odd things out of the deep past as opposed to the known and recorded one. Everything from evidence of Giants as a species at one time (Afghanistan and Nevada both being places I recall the shows talking about) to artifacts found during mining and tunneling where the sheer placement is telling for dates required. Fringe reports....but it's odd how often the fringe starts from a nugget of something solid too.

The logical side of me wants to point out that there is something else true if advanced human civilization existed on Earth in our deep past. Most, if not all that existed above ground or not fossilized or trapped in some weird way is gone forever. We'll never get it back, obviously. Dino bones wouldn't be rare...they'd be common as garden stones if things didn't decay to 0 in most cases..so no mystery there. However. past advanced? Lets consider something......since it relates 100% to topic and answering your premise ....

Just exactly HOW long did it take to go from Horses and Buggys pulling wood wagons full of illiterate people (by comparison to science known later) to Apollo Missions launching from earth shaking Saturn V Rockets to stand on the ....Moon.

If advanced tech has existed in Earth before, and I believe it has, then there are 3 places it may still be found in varying states of waste over time or...not, depending on where.

The deep oceans, where no one has looked and conditions can freeze decay in some cases. (Navy Sonar isn't looking for it..and wouldn't bother noting much unless it had a road sign saying enemy subs may be hiding there..lol).

Antarctica, where once there was lush rain forest and climates very happy and comfortable to life....just like ours, in fact. It's also been encased in Ice for many thousands to many millions of years depending on where and who is dating it. Surprisingly, expeditions and surveys have found exceptionally clear definition and detail on rock they can scan from above the ice, suggesting little to no ice flow in at least some areas.....and that's a BIG continent. Maybe Magnetic Anomaly stuff and a way to get to ground below the ice and kinda melt tunnels around to see what is there would be worth the effort? Drones would be useful for that kind of thing, I'd imagine.

..and the Moon. Where things can stand without decay almost forever.

That's my two cents. Time to start looking! The truth is in the past,

I'm kinda wondering now, being that there is almost a consensus here... Is this a "chicken or egg" thread?

Aliens, Mother Nature, ... or the Almighty?

Hmmm...

Me personally? I believe in the theory that ancient aliens kind of nudged mother nature along. This theory has always interested me and looked at it and thought about it a lot, and have made up my mind that this is what happened. And now I bet those aliens are watching their little creations either laughing or shaking their heads at what we've done to this planet and ourselves. But thats just me.

This is what i love. Despite the many different views that each of us might have on their ideas about this stuff, we can all come together and post those views.. i find this absolutly refreshing and am glad i decided to add tot his thread.