Fiscal Cliff: In Your Face

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posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by BritofTexas
 



Excuse me?

What?

Welfare queen?

I have never taken a freaking dime from the government in any shape or form.

Those who are on SS,medicare,medicaid,welfare are "welfare queens".

Here are some welfare queens:



here:



Here:



Here:




The American republic has endured for well over two centuries, but over the past 50 years, the apparatus of American governance has undergone a radical transformation. In some basic respects—its scale, its preoccupations, even many of its purposes—the U.S. government today would be scarcely recognizable to Franklin D. Roosevelt, much less to Abraham Lincoln or Thomas Jefferson.


online.wsj.com...

Pay attention:


In 2010 alone, government at all levels oversaw a transfer of over $2.2 trillion in money, goods and services. The burden of these entitlements came to slightly more than $7,200 for every person in America. Scaled against a notional family of four, the average entitlements burden for that year alone approached $29,000.


So who are the welfare queens again?

How about those 200 million Americans on government assistance move to China if they want to continue being welfare queens.

Hmm

edit on 28-11-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


Funny that you don't realize it, but those numbers and charts actually support my argument, though I'm sure you don't see how. Thanks for that.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


I am not going to argue with you Neo....but let's be honest here. That position about XX% not paying taxes is bunk. Everyone pays some kinda tax...period. It was a great talking point but it is just not correct. One of few points that we can agree on is that we pay too much in taxes.

Like the guy in the video correctly said...if the Gov collects a million dollars in taxes, they spend 2 million. When was the last time we had a budget?...anyone? Anyone?

Without a budget, we cannot enter into talks like this with any rationality. You have to have a benchmark.

"The budget is going to be...850 billion dollars"...you have to decide what is most important and what is secondary and you cut spending and increase revenues to get to that number...you cannot just keep writing checks because you still have blank checks in your checkbook. If you and I do that, these guys with badges come looking for us.

Discussing this "fiscal cliff" without a real and functional balanced budget is just stroking something...it's not going to accomplish crapola. I'll make a prediction. The Repubs will yield to letting the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy expire...but no new increases. The Democrats will cut some entitlement spending somewhere...but it will not be profound. We will have this compromise and when they go home for the holidays...we will still be deficit spending. It might not be 40 cents on the dollar but I can guarantee they have no plans to balance the budget and attack the 16 trillion dollar national debt...not going to happen.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by StrangeOldBrew
 


Do tell explain how it does considering those charts show who is consuming the majority of tax revenue and who are taking more out of that than pay in.

2,.2 trillion dollars



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by Jeremiah65
 


Programs and a government who can't pay its bills says its not bunk.

as well as that 16 trillion dollar deficit.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by CALGARIAN
 


I say let the dems own it. Let them install all the rules and taxes they want.

Then we'll see.
Dems, Repubs, no difference. Just two wings of the same buzzard.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by neo96


Do tell explain how it does considering those charts show who is consuming the majority of tax revenue



Your charts are bunk. They are Heritage Foundation propaganda props. If I thought you were capable of admitting error I would take the time to tell you where in each, but I leave you with the obvious.

In your skewed, BS, chart about federal expenditures...where the Iraq and Afghanistan look ever so tiny and the evil entitlements look huge...let me ask you this...

Does your bank consider it an expenditure when you withdrawl savings you have deposited?

See "Entitlements" are paid for by contributions...

Where as the unfunded wars your idealogical hero got is into were unfunded...

Entitlements cost the government money the same way withdrawing savings costs a bank money.

Now you can shout about how the bank has invested that money poorly and is about to fold, but for effs sake, that is not the depositors problem. The bank should stop spending on effen unfunded adventures in the middle east to occupy oil rich nations...whoopee for the GOP!
edit on 28-11-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)
edit on 28-11-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


Want to try again?

Miss the fact this nation has a 16 trillion dollar deficit?

Miss the fact that social programs are no where near close to being solvent?

Miss the fact that as soon as that tax revenue is collected it is spent.

Back to someones skewed bias and the proven fact that since 1935 none of their grand ideals have n't fixed and damn thing but led us to the fiscal cliff.

And there they are with gun in hand saying tax more to keep that asinine ideology in place.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by StrangeOldBrew
 


Do tell explain how it does considering those charts show who is consuming the majority of tax revenue and who are taking more out of that than pay in.

2,.2 trillion dollars


They support my argument because of what they do not include, and their source is of course known for deceptive reporting. Also keep in mind that top earners include financial institutions.

Add to those numbers 1. bank bailouts 2. corporate bailouts 3. corporate subsidies 4. money "borrowed" at current 0.1% interest rates. Do this and you will find that these "top tax payers" are getting a rather good return on their "taxes".



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by StrangeOldBrew
 


Corporate subsidies?

Oh say like big oil that returns more than paid in to it?

For instance the federal gasoline sales taxes nets the us goverrrment 25 billion a year straight off the top then of course the states get their cuts.

Want to know where that money the government takes goes?

Right in to social programs.

The fact is social programs return little or nothing back compared to "corporate subsidies" but then agian all that tax revenue collected for social programs lines corporate pockets.

So yeah the corporate subsides need to end.

Which is what all the hub bub is about tax more money from the evil rich and those corporations so they can go buy more corporate products!

edit on 28-11-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 05:11 PM
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Here is the truth of the Fiscal Cliff...

Until now the GOP has held hostage the middle class tax breaks for the top income tax breaks.

If we go off the cliff Jan. 1st, all the Dems need to do is introduce a stand alone bill for tax breaks for those making less than 250k.....let the GOP publicly oppose that stand alone bill.

Then the GOP can introduce a bill to give tax breaks to those making over 250k and see where that gets them...

See...if we go over the cliff, the GOP loses it's hostage and goes down in flames. Believe me a bill to re-instate the tax breaks for the middle class will be on the table by Jan. 2nd and the GOP will be forced to vote against a tax break for the middle class or go along.

Then what? The GOP tries to pass a stand alone bill for those making over 250k?

The rest of the budget deals to re-instate neccessary spending will also get done piece-meal.

The GOPs best option is to compromise for all they can get now, which is less than they could have gotten a year ago when John Boehner celebrated getting the Fiscal Cliff deal "We got 98% of what we wanted!"...which caused a first ever Credit Downgrade of the USA.

Partisanship aside...from a pure strategy standpoint the GOP has thoroughly screwed themselves is such a way that could only be done when a political party aims to destroy a sitting President even if it means being economic sabatuers. It is difficult to feel any sympathy for the state the GOP is in and will continue to be in.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by StrangeOldBrew
 


Corporate subsidies?

Oh say like big oil that returns more than paid in to it?


You are off in some darwinian, Koch fueled la-la land.


General economic theory holds that companies will produce more of a good if its price is higher, or if it receives subsidies. Funny that these rules didn’t seem to apply to Big Oil in 2011, when the highest oil price since 1864 and $2 billion in subsidies to the five largest oil companies—BP, Chevron, ConocoPhillips, ExxonMobil, and Royal Dutch Shell—yielded lower oil production than in 2010. But these five oil companies combined made a record-high $137 billion in profits in 2011—up 75 percent from 2010—and have made more than $1 trillion in profits from 2001 through 2011.[1] This exceeds the previous record of $136 billion in profits in 2008.

www.americanprogress.org...

And that is just the 5 Biggest Oil companies...all in we give the Oil industry around 42 Billion a year.


For instance the federal gasoline sales taxes nets the us goverrrment 25 billion a year straight off the top then of course the states get their cuts.


Paid by the consumer...not the oil companies, they get thier profits plus another 42 Billion in taxpayer funded subsidies.


Originally posted by neo96
Want to know where that money the government takes goes?

Right in to social programs.


Of funding invasions...or half the amount they give back to oil companies....ad infinium


Originally posted by neo96
The fact is social programs return little or nothing back compared to "corporate subsidies"


I am begining to think you are a Koch brother...that there is some effed-up thinking. Social programs are paid for directly....check your pay stub...wars and oil subsidies are not...wars and oil subsidies are funded by BORROWING from SS and Medicaire so one day effen republicans can bitch about how expensive it is to actually return those funds to the depositors.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 05:44 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 





You are off in some darwinian, Koch fueled la-la land.


Personal attack eh after what someone else said that is off topic care to stay ontopic?




And that is just the 5 Biggest Oil companies...all in we give the Oil industry around 42 Billion a year.


Article says 2 billion. and 42 over a decade which is 4 billion a year 25 billion per year is what the feds make off the gasoline sales tax.




Paid by the consumer...not the oil companies, they get thier profits plus another 42 Billion in taxpayer funded subsidies.


Yep so whats the point there eh?




Of funding invasions...or half the amount they give back to oil companies....ad infinium


What about those invasion of the past 4 years?

Oh I am speaking of those with their hands in my wallet saying I don't pay enough.;




I am begining to think you are a Koch brother...that there is some effed-up thinking. Social programs are paid for directly....check your pay stub...wars and oil subsidies are not...wars and oil subsidies are funded by BORROWING from SS and Medicaire so one day effen republicans can bitch about how expensive it is to actually return those funds to the depositors.


Awesome


Another personal attack.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Indigo5
 





You are off in some darwinian, Koch fueled la-la land.


Personal attack eh after what someone else said that is off topic care to stay ontopic?


I am attacking your ideas...not you...or your occupation...



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by CALGARIAN
As well as taxing rich will add a few billion dollars, which will be spent in days...


This is a balogna argument from the GOP.

How is taxing a group with the majority of wealth going to result in less money than taxing the group with less? Use your head. Other than that... I agree with the guy --

That we should just go off the cliff. Except IMO it would teach the Republicans a lesson. They love to call themselves job creators, while that's hardly a priority for them (not to mention whether or not the jobs pay fairly -- CEO of Wal-Mart makes more in an hour than the entire floor staff make in an entire year, look it up). Yep, take us into another Great Depression. Republicans -- who do you think buys your crap? Ex., John Schnatter, Papa John's CEO who lives in a frickin' CASTLE -- who the hell are you going to hawk your crap on when there's no money left? If we split the US down the middle, dems on one half, Repubs on the other, I guarantee you the Repubs would suffer more. They NEED us more than we need them (why do we need them again?).
edit on 28-11-2012 by Matriculated because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Indigo5
 


Want to try again?

Miss the fact this nation has a 16 trillion dollar deficit?

Miss the fact that social programs are no where near close to being solvent?




I miss the fact that we did not have these kinds of problems prior
To the Right wing revolution in 1980.

As soon as you guys got your way, the budget started going off.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo5
Here is the truth of the Fiscal Cliff...

Until now the GOP has held hostage the middle class tax breaks for the top income tax breaks.

If we go off the cliff Jan. 1st, all the Dems need to do is introduce a stand alone bill for tax breaks for those making less than 250k.....let the GOP publicly oppose that stand alone bill.

Then the GOP can introduce a bill to give tax breaks to those making over 250k and see where that gets them...

See...if we go over the cliff, the GOP loses it's hostage and goes down in flames. Believe me a bill to re-instate the tax breaks for the middle class will be on the table by Jan. 2nd and the GOP will be forced to vote against a tax break for the middle class or go along.

Then what? The GOP tries to pass a stand alone bill for those making over 250k?

The rest of the budget deals to re-instate neccessary spending will also get done piece-meal.

The GOPs best option is to compromise for all they can get now, which is less than they could have gotten a year ago when John Boehner celebrated getting the Fiscal Cliff deal "We got 98% of what we wanted!"...which caused a first ever Credit Downgrade of the USA.

Partisanship aside...from a pure strategy standpoint the GOP has thoroughly screwed themselves is such a way that could only be done when a political party aims to destroy a sitting President even if it means being economic sabatuers. It is difficult to feel any sympathy for the state the GOP is in and will continue to be in.


Boy Howdy don't we wish they would pass all spending legislation as stand alone votes!?
One thing you'd hope Congress would have as a takeaway lesson from this is that when
you proffer 2,000 plus pages of spending bill and riders that nobody has read, don't pretend
to be shocked when you end up with Pork Pie Surprise that nobody wants or needs.

But, I'm thinking this is going to wind up being a lot of fake hand-wringing and that lobbiest have
already typed up this legislation too, and have had it sitting on ice waiting until the stroke of
midnight to force votes on a piece of legislation 2500 pages long that nobody has read.
I mean are we supposed to believe they are going to be sitting around with their $500 shirtsleeves
rolled up over the Christmas Holiday recess, "getting this done"?
Not even maybe.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by CALGARIAN
 


He's absolutely right. Let the chips fall where they may and then figure out the kinks, this waffling # has to go.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by Thepump
 


Want to try again?

We have always had these problems ALWAYS.

Want to know how much someone who made 30 grand a year in the 80s would be worth in todays dollars?

$84,000 and some change,.

Tell me again "our problems were caused by the right in the 80s".

edit on 28-11-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by neo96

Tell me again "our problems were caused by the right in the 80s".

edit on 28-11-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)


Yep...1980...that is when that man in the video got elected President





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