End of the "student loan bubble"? Delinquency rates suddenly go parabolic

reply to post by SmoothRhythm

I will never understand why a future educator at any level of schooling is able to teach after 4 years of b.s. classes (b.s. does not stand for bachelor of sciences if you catch my drift), while any kind of doctor requires 8+ years of schooling (not just medical doctors). If educators were required more schooling before they were able teach our children, the future of this world would be looking much more radiant and vibrant than what it currently looks like.

In my state you have 4 years to get your masters after you start your teaching job.
But you have fallen into the trap of believing that better educated and better paid teachers produces a better outcome with the students.
Why is it that they (news, parents, teacher unions) never put any responsibility on the student? I'd better qualify this statement. The unions spout we need to pay the teachers more to get the best teachers until after the contract is signed. Then when a school rating issue comes up it's not the teachers it's the supplies and equipment shortage.
They never mention the gang banging dorks that sleep in class and just don't give a #hit.


As to the college and loans:
A four year degree says you have a certain amount of quality about you. You can stick with a task to the end. You can read and write. You have a vocabulary over 500 words.

However in the US college is a business. And as such they must fill the seats. If that means offering a degree in criminal justice it's out there. I remember a few years back you could get a 2 year degree in VCR repair. I'll bet they are still paying the loans on that one.

A couple of years back they passed a new law concerning the schools reporting of job placement after graduation. But due to the economy they delayed the implimentation of it.

reply to post by flexy123


I worked at Kohler for fifteen months in the foundry. I didn't mind it at all. The workers there were good people, the work was hard but it wasn't usually stressful. You had time to think, well that's after you got acclimated to the noise and heat, but I actually enjoyed the job. I quit because I couldn't learn more from it, not because it was a bad job. It wasn't easy to learn new things in the foundry, you couldn't just bounce around at will. I also worked at another small foundry making aluminum pots and pans, throwing a potato into the aluminum if you got cold shorts taught me a little about how things work. It is surprising how many potatoes the aluminum industry used to use.

A job sucks if you think it sucks. Cleaning out a sewer pipe can really suck or working construction replacing sewer lines as a worker who has to jump in the smelly hole to secure the pipes sucks. People do that every day though. If I had to do it I would. I've worked many kinds of work in my life and the ones I disliked the most were the ones that most people think of as the best. I don't want to sit in an office doing paperwork all day long, I got bored with the slow learning in college also, I'm glad I went to Michigan Tech after I graduated instead of going there in the tenth grade. There is a lot to learn in this world. You learn from everything you do. If you are smart you learn from your mistakes and the mistakes of others. If everybody had your job, it would be a very boring world, the knowledge of the world would stagnate.

I don't think college is bad, I just think they are getting too many people to go to college. Not everyone needs to be a college graduate to live their life, we just need a job. I have a lot of respect for a person who works hard and works in dangerous situations to make our way of life possible.

One of the great misconceptions that causes this problem is that somewhere along the way people believed that their job defines who they are when it should be that your job provides you the money to do what you want to do to be who you are.

Far too many people work their 9-5, come home fix dinner and watch TV until bedtime. Personally, I cannot think of a more miserable lifestyle. Myself, I work two crappy low paying jobs to make ends meet and have a little extra. Sure, it would be nice to have a single well paying job just at would be nice to hit the lottery, but neither is a likely situation in today's market. But at the end of the day rather than watch TV; I read a lot, help moderate this site, do an informative radio show on Thursdays, help a friend with various projects around his house on Sundays which usually means he and I cook a big meal together for us and his girlfriend who has been watching their baby the whole time (which is something I like to call fellowship). In the past year he and I renovated the old farmhouse that they are living in now and are still doing other little projects.

But I guess you could say that I am a glorified taxi driver that runs elderly and poor to doctors appointment and slings pizza on the weekend for tips if you wanted to so. I certainly do not define myself that way. In fact, few who know me define me that way either. *shrug*

You know what amazes me is how few people recognize the causal link between student loans and skyrocketing education costs. Much like low interest rates in a normal economy can cause home prices to rise, student loans allow colleges to continuously raise prices. With the possible exception of Child Support Debt, Student Loan Debt is one of the most onerous types of debt out there. It is NOT DISCHARGEABLE in a bankruptcy, it is marketed to financially unsophisticated young people, and it lowers the amount that a person with it is able to spend on things like housing, or save for retirement.

I personally don't think that the government should be in the student loan business. If they weren't then private lenders would still offer loans, but only those that are likely to be paid back. You would still be able to get a loan for things like medicine and engineering because the likelihood of repayment would be there, but you wouldn't have the taxpayer subsidizing useless degrees like they do now. The cost of those useless degrees would however drop dramatically because all the subsidized money would no longer be inflating the cost so that those who could afford it (through scholarship, family wealth, or the old-fashioned work-school combo) could still persue them.

Originally posted by ProperlyErrant
reply to post by silent thunder

 

I know my education at the University was inexplicably irreplaceable. I gained an extremely important set of knowledge and experiences.

That being said, considering this thread topic, and everything else, especially the real unemployment rate and the soon-to-be retired folks, yea....

we're #ed.

edit on 27-11-2012 by ProperlyErrant because: (no reason given)

indeed but let me ask you one question, would it have been a better for you if you didn't have to gain useless credits to graduate?

i thin a lot of what we see, besides the unemployment situation, is that colleges are milking the hell out of the system and students. they pack on a plethora of unusable, unrelated classes with respect to the students majors. i would imagine and i have no numbers but probably a solid half or 50% of what students take loans out for are useless credits no one will ever use.

you could easily get 4 years degree students out the door and in the field in 2 years without the added un useful credits they require. that's a lot of money being wasted by the student and made by the schools.

it truly is a scam perpetrated collectively by the colleges and i think they should have an overhaul on what the required verses unrequited credits should be.

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle


I remember a few years back when hospitals helped their employees to take classes while they worked to expand their education and get better work. Same with companies like AT&T. These were good programs but were often misused by employees, as soon as they graduated they went work somewhere else that paid a few cents more. No loyalty to an employer who goes out of their way to help their employees learn more. I guess greed is everywhere within all classes of people.

And nobody sees thats what is wrong with the colledge system is whats wrong with the society as a whole......?

GIANT FAIL

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

indeed but let me ask you one question, would it have been a better for you if you didn't have to gain useless credits to graduate?

To a point yes. But many of those classes lead to a better rounded person.
Someone who can speak with confidence and without slang.
Someone who can read and write in complete sentances with proper spelling and punctuation. (said with a smile)

How would you feel to see a Boeing manual witten with testing shortcuts and misspellings?
How would you feel to find that your doctor doesn't know what communisim is?
What if all the sales people in a new car dealership looked like Ashton Kutcher in torn T-shirts?

College puts a polish on an individual.

Those extra credits suck but many people need them. Especially those comming from community college.

is there any percentage of student loan defaults held by Law Students

i just whish law degrees become an albatross as corporations will have in-house training for many of thos positions occupied by overpaid law degreed staff members...


the days of signing on as an "independent contractors"
to do specified tasks according to corp. protocol will fail the Sniff Test as to skirting legal & accepted exclusion of the category Employee...let the big-brother aopparatus work on that agnle that excapes the resulting
'revenue inflows to Gov't' that have been siphoned off from govt coffiers for almost 3 decades already


ashes to ashes, dust to dust

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

 

indeed but let me ask you one question, would it have been a better for you if you didn't have to gain useless credits to graduate?

To a point yes. But many of those classes lead to a better rounded person.
Someone who can speak with confidence and without slang.
Someone who can read and write in complete sentances with proper spelling and punctuation. (said with a smile)

How would you feel to see a Boeing manual witten with testing shortcuts and misspellings?
How would you feel to find that your doctor doesn't know what communisim is?
What if all the sales people in a new car dealership looked like Ashton Kutcher in torn T-shirts?

College puts a polish on an individual.

Those extra credits suck but many people need them. Especially those comming from community college.

everything you mentioned is taught in the high school curriculum and is redundant in college. wasted hours doing work that was done several times before and paid for in taxes. now it's done again and paid for by the student, at a net zero educational gain.

lets face facts 12 of everything taught in colleges is redundant material towards a major and costs 50% more money and time.

college doesn't polish anyone who doesn't shine already.

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

 

I remember a few years back when hospitals helped their employees to take classes while they worked to expand their education and get better work. Same with companies like AT&T. These were good programs but were often misused by employees, as soon as they graduated they went work somewhere else that paid a few cents more. No loyalty to an employer who goes out of their way to help their employees learn more. I guess greed is everywhere within all classes of people.

there is less and less loyalty both ways these days my friend, just the nature of our current sick society, more so fake than sick though.

reply to post by SmoothRhythm
I have to respond to this. It's a family joke, my brother-in-law is a college educated "shop" teacher, but he can't fix his own car. My "uneducated" husband has to do it for him. He can't even change the oil.

You know, what I see here is that we have systems that simply don't work. Why do you need a degree in retail to sell clothes? You don't. Why do you need a degree in most things to start doing it at entry level? How do you know you'll like it that much now or in a few years?

Why not have a society that allows for all manner of learning, be it working your way up or whatever? A lot of people don't like sitting and being spoon fed information. They do much better actively seeing the results of what they're doing.

I will make a new paragraph here to ask all readers to refrain from hyperbole in their responses. Yes, I'm aware we don't want nuclear reactor designers working their way up and seeing the results of their mistakes. Let's retain some perspective and reason here. Obviously people would be mentored. It should really go without saying, so let's keep our heads about us.

There is no reason that employers should regard employees as some sort of unavoidable expense. It's time to relegate Dickensian scenarios to the past. There's no reason to accept this stuff anymore. If I were running a company, every employee would be like family. They are there to help me build my dream. Isn't that what business is about?

There's no reason everyone needs a degree. We sit far too long in school before we ever get to the stage where we can start living our lives. What happens when every 26-year-old has a Ph.D? Will you need two? Will you also need to not only be a computer genius, a lifeguard but a child psychologist and premier chef just to rank highly enough for your next promotion? Enough with the absurd expectations. This is life. We can live it just as well without lots of scraps of paper and letters behind our names.

Besides, most of what we "know" is wrong. We prove that all the time. Look around you.

yea, sadly to say - they want it to go up. and they stole 18months of my forward payments - in case I become unemployed - and they said I could make forward payments it was a coupon system and now I dont know what it is - but they do not tell you what they are doing on the book keeping either... you know a normal statement - well they dont produce one - so you dont even know what they are doing with your money.

I plan to take them to court for mis-appropraiting my funds and claiming I am late - and for calling a telephone number I asked them to not use. (its not mine).... so, stay tuned I will post the out come....

reply to post by samkent

In my state you have 4 years to get your masters after you start your teaching job. But you have fallen into the trap of believing that better educated and better paid teachers produces a better outcome with the students. Why is it that they (news, parents, teacher unions) never put any responsibility on the student? I'd better qualify this statement. The unions spout we need to pay the teachers more to get the best teachers until after the contract is signed. Then when a school rating issue comes up it's not the teachers it's the supplies and equipment shortage. They never mention the gang banging dorks that sleep in class and just don't give a #hit.

Great point, I guess as a whole, education within the U.S. needs a major reform. I luckily grew up in a great school district which had about 80% of needed the supplies (most of my classes were still short on text books).

Now, I believe better educated teachers have a better chance of affecting greater outcomes; however, this is from my own experience since I most likely live in a different state than you do. My reasoning behind my belief is because of a few teachers I have had in the past were absolutely terrible. One Literature teacher in particular had my class read short, fictional stories from our text book so we could draw and color the characters of these stories onto a piece of computer paper. This happened four times a week... as a senior about to graduate high school. How is this supposed to prepare students for university level education? The worst part about all of this, my school was given the rating of an "A" by my state because we had some of the best scores for our state standardized test. To let it be known, teacher's are given monetary incentives in my state based on the school's scores on these standardized tests... That being said, teachers will only teach to the test and nothing more.

Those "gang banging dorks" that sleep in class are what hurt the education system the most. The No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 is one of the root causes for the student loan bubble in my opinion. If these lazy/stupid students were to get weeded-out earlier on in the education system, there wouldn't be as much delinquent debt as there currently is because these students would have dropped out long before ever attempting college. Not only that, but if they were to drop out much earlier in the system, it would better disperse the educational resources among those who actually want to make something of themselves. I say let them drop out and have them obtain a GED when they figure their lives out. I personally know two people in college who didn't finish High School, but instead obtained GED's and they are doing absolutely great at this point in their life.

Originally posted by Happy1
reply to post by SmoothRhythm

 

I have to respond to this. It's a family joke, my brother-in-law is a college educated "shop" teacher, but he can't fix his own car. My "uneducated" husband has to do it for him. He can't even change the oil.

Exactly my point! Some skills can't effectively be taught in a classroom setting. I grew up with a guy who's father was an extremely successful carpenter. He never had a degree and learned everything by experience. A hard-working attitude and common sense allowed him to buy a magnificent home and own a very successful carpentry business. He was the living definition of the American Dream.

reply to post by silent thunder


The big problem is automation.

Everyone who gets turned onto "education" then states: I want to be a lawyer, doctor, accountant, etc.

Oops -- there's only so many of those hierarchical positions. haha. Not to mention the huge tax welfare they are based on -- and that goes also for the military budget-based jobs. Military spending is the least efficient means of job creations but the military contractors have skillfully positioned their jobs across all political districts to ensure that no politician will cut military spending.

2 billion people live on $2 a day.

Females are disproportionately uneducated since they have to help out with the family chores.

The less people live off the land and the more automation there is then the fewer jobs there are.

The main cause of job loss in China even is automation.

Yeah in Germany 70% of high school students go into corporate apprenticeships for career job training.

The U.S. corporations don't emphasize job training but instead pass it off onto the universities, etc.

So then corporations rely on tax welfare to get free job training and research.

For example I did graduate research at the U of MN on the corporation control of that Big Ten school.

In 2000 there were 350 different corporations doing "research" at the U of MN -- that is giving a tax-deduction donation to oversee research.

So they give a tax-deduction and they free buildings, free lab equipment, free researchers and they control the direction of the research - -but it's supposedly "unbiased" since it's at a University.

Guess what -- student tuition then skyrockets in order to subsidize the corporate welfare research!!

That is the real reason why student tuition increases so fast.

Originally posted by jefwane
You know what amazes me is how few people recognize the causal link between student loans and skyrocketing education costs.

^^^THIS.

Furthermore, To market student loans to individuals seeking degrees in oversaturated, raw talents based, or minimal growth opportunity fields is absolutely immoral. It is a freaking crock of crap that we live in a country where you can legally get your head blown off fighting in a pointless pissing contest in the middle East, blow every cent you have to your name gambling in the lottery, and sign away a huge chunk of your future earnings via an inescapable student loan debt... all 3 years before you can legally purchase and consume a can of beer. I mean, seriously, what the hell America?