Romans 10:9

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posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 03:54 AM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Galations original text before redactions/interpolations:

For Abraham had two sons, the one by a slave-maid, the other by a free-woman.
But he who was of the slave-woman was born after the flesh;
but he of the free-woman was by promise.
This is allegorized: these are two revelations,
indeed the one from Mount Sinai is the synagogue of the Jews,
giving birth, according to the Law, into slavery;
The other gives birth into freedom, above every Principality, Power, Dominion,
of every name that is named, not only in this destiny,
but also in that which is to come-
the holy assembly promised to us, which is our “mother”.
So then, brethren, we are not children of the slave-woman [Sarah],
but of the free [Hagar].


Galations 4:22-31 After redactions/interpolations:

22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. 23But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. 24This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 25Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.

27For it is written,
“REJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR;
BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR;
FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE
THAN OF THE ONE WHO HAS A HUSBAND.”

28And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.

30But what does the Scripture say?
“CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON,
FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN.”

31So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

The following passage:

"The other gives birth into freedom, above every Principality, Power, Dominion,
of every name that is named, not only in this destiny, but also in that which is to come-
the holy assembly promised to us"

corresponds to "The Stolen Blessing" of Genesis 27 in which Jacob steals Esau's birthright in an outright act of deception:

38And Esau said unto his father, Hast thou but one blessing, my father? bless me, even me also, O my father. And Esau lifted up his voice, and wept.

39And Isaac his father answered and said unto him, Behold, thy dwelling shall be the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of heaven from above;

40And by thy sword shalt thou live, and shalt serve thy brother; and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion, that thou shalt break his yoke [Jacob's] from off thy neck.


Jacob (i.e. Israel) is called "Jacob" because the name means "heel-catcher".

Gen 3:14-15

14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Jacob was renamed "Israel", meaning "He who wrestles/strives against God".

The name, "Esau", in Hebrew, is comprised of the same characters making up the name, "Jesus".
Esau formed the tribe of Edom, which corresponds to "Adam", in Hebrew, both meaning "red", which is also the meaning of "Esau". As we know, Jesus was known as the last Adam. Esau was also of the land of Seir, which is where we get the word, "Naz Seir" or "Nazarene".








edit on 28-11-2012 by Aesir26 because: (no reason given)
edit on 28-11-2012 by Aesir26 because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 03:54 AM
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reply to post by Dustytoad
 


Exactly. We should not be afraid of the light keeper within ourselves, and we should certainly not be afraid of the light bearer within ourselves either.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 04:10 AM
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reply to post by Aesir26
 


Your entire post seems to be describing the differences that should be noticed between slaves and free people, and that by law a slave woman has to make a slave baby that was born out of lust, and not on purpose. Meanwhile a baby by the free woman was Made on purpose for spiritual desire, not carnal....

Maybe if you add your own thoughts I could see what you mean?


If you are trying to be metaphorical I get what you did there, but no.
That text sounds pretty straight forward in trying to act like some people are dirty sex havers, and others have sex for higher purpose..

Goes into the whole be married thing, and raise your dang kids thing, but doesn't seem to address the area of souls in the least.
edit on 11/28/2012 by Dustytoad because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 04:19 AM
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reply to post by Dustytoad
 



“[The Apostolikon version of 4:24-31] opposes, by two mystical plans, the synogogue of the
Jews and the holy church. The [orthodox version] pretends to save the Jews. It replaces the two
“manifestations”...radically different, by two “alliances” [ “testaments”] and, in the end, with two
Jerusalems. It confuses in striving to explain how Hagar, mother of the pagan Arabs, nevertheless represents
the Jews. Finally it is no longer the law and grace which are opposed, nor even two alliances, but the
Jerusalem slave of the Romans and the Jerusalem on high described in the Apocalypse (Rev. ). This
perspective is completely warped....”.

PL Couchoud, from The Premier Edition de St.Paul

Mt. Sinai is the Holy Mountain of the Jews, where Moses received the original "Ten Commandments", the Law.
How is it then, according to the redacted Roman Catholic version, that Mt. Sinai can logically represent Hagar and the Gentiles? Another example of the corruption of the truth...

edit on 28-11-2012 by Aesir26 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 04:45 AM
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reply to post by Aesir26
 


You know,
I am slow with the bible.
I cannot tell if you answered me or not.

One more time now. Please post your own thoughts along with whatever material you wish me to view. I am not you and won't read what you read as you read it, so telling me would help.

So for instance..

What makes someone Free?
AND...
also who are the other people who don't get to be?

Or in another way.. Your bible quotes are going over my head as far as not having context which could be provided at least by your view of the texts, and then more in depth if I so choose to look them up later.
edit on 11/28/2012 by Dustytoad because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 05:22 AM
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reply to post by Dustytoad
 


"What makes someone Free?
AND...
also who are the other people who don't get to be?"

Communion with the Living Spirit of Christ (which is found within) frees us from bondage to the law. We are saved in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto us, and we unto the world. The physical world, this "Earth", is our grave: it is death; it is a compost heap. However, our true essence is extra-terrestrial, not animal, not mineral. When we sacrifice our elemental nature, we are reborn astrally.

The people who don't get to be free are the ones who acknowledge mortal law. They are slaves to carnality and are naturally Earth-bound forever.
edit on 28-11-2012 by Aesir26 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 05:56 AM
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reply to post by Aesir26
 


Ok so are you saying a belief in non physical reality is what saves one?
Is it attention based? (what you pay attention to grows stronger?)

Or are you saying Yes to the OP, that believing Jesus is Lord and that he died on the cross you are saved??

It's different to me, and you may be saying this. I view dying on the cross as being reborn spiritually after giving up the physical attachments, a weakening of the ego.

I view this as a path I must take and no one else can really help me, or hinder me even..

It's based more in physics in my mind than some deity, though I do follow God...



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 05:57 AM
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reply to post by Aesir26
 


Those were good connections. Give some context to what that means to you if you don't mind. I am very interested.

We all have a choice. Jacob was a farmer and gives. Esau was a hunter and takes. One is in the will of God to give and receive and the other to take. There were two thieves on the cross. One repented. God said, "Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated." We each have a choice to be grafted into with one family or the other by the name we take. The name represents the character and the entire Bible is written to show us which side we take or which we willing receive from God.



edit on 28-11-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 06:45 AM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


In the Book of Enoch, the Son of man (ben-Adam) is the "Righteous One" who will preside over the final judgement of the wicked, i.e. the worldly kings and the mighty, who will beg for His mercy.

Jesus identifies himself as the Son of man in the NT saying, "you shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven. (Mk 14:62) He is known as the last Adam.

Esau (Isa/Iesous) is of Edom/Adam. He is true to his father, and is loved by Isaac yet despised by Rachel (name meaning "ewe"/"yew": sheep or tree of poison/death). Esau lives in the open under the sky unlike his homely brother, Jacob (the 'heel-biter"), a tent-dweller and a deceiver. Jacob is described as bare, smooth and simple, which are the characteristics of the Hebrew letter, Zain/Zayin, or "Seven", which means "weapon; phallus; lie; deception; destruction". Gen 36:18 lists "Jeush" as a "son of Esau", which is an anagram of the same letters composing the name, "Jesus" in Hebrew, and means "Gatherer". Further, Esau is the archetypal brother who forgives Jacob for all his transgressions, welcoming him home with an embrace instead of the attack that Jacob is expecting and deserves.

The original story of Job of the Theraputae begins with: "4Know then my children, that you are the generation of a chosen one and take heed of your noble birth.5For I am of the sons of Esau."

Throughout the entire Old Testament, it is Yahweh, lord of worldly wealth, power and war, who is hell-bent on the destruction of Esau/Edom:

“… the people of my curse, to judgment. The sword of the Lord is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the Lord has a sacrifice in Bozrah [a city in Edom], and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea [Edom]. And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.” Isaiah 34:5-7


edit on 28-11-2012 by Aesir26 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 07:04 AM
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reply to post by rigel4
 

9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Is it really this simple?
Apparently, it is.
The more difficult thing is defining this word, "saved".
The particular morphological form for the Greek word translated here as "saved", is found in three places in the New Testament.
One of the other places is in Acts 11,

He informed us how he had seen an angel standing in his house and saying, ‘Send to Joppa and summon Simon, who is called Peter, who will speak a message to you by which you and your entire household will be saved.’ Then as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as he did on us at the beginning.

There is a such thing, in the minds of the NT writers, as a "saving message" where when a person hears it, and believes it, they are then "saved", whatever that means.
I think the problem is that people interpret what the word means through modern pop-culture religion, rather than what Paul or Luke meant by it.
To me, it is a sanctifying process where you are set apart from the general masses of humanity for a purpose which is following after the ways of Jesus.
What it is not, in my opinion, is a "ticket" to Paradise, so that from now on you don't have to worry about whether you are good or not.
edit on 28-11-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 07:34 AM
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Originally posted by UnaChispa

Originally posted by rigel4
9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Is it really this simple?


I wouldn't say 'simple'. The hard part is believing in your heart.

Ephesians 2:8-10 says,
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."


And Grace, which is inate to all men, is the presence of the Holy Spirit (HS) in man. Though God has shared the presence of the HS with us he allows us the choice to recognise this and to act upon it. This implies a reciprical relationship, and one that is free. A man can beleive that God exists through faith, but to be saved a man must also act. The HS calls us to act upon this faith, "to do good works". When we do act within our faith, we invite the HS to act on our own being, in our hearts. It is through this reciprical relationship that we are sanctified, where our acts become the proof of gods presence in our world, and which gives us hope for an everlasting life.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by rigel4
9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Is it really this simple?


Yes, however what Paul means by that is often misunderstood. A person who truly declares with their mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believes in their heart that God raised him from the dead, will ask the question, "what shall we do" and obey the answer.

Acts 2:37-39 (KJV)
37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

They will also continue on into a life of holiness, not sin.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by MrCobb
reply to post by MrCobb
 



Let me just tag something on here real quick, about this "unbelievers don't exist to God": you see, there were two groups in the OT "Jews" and "Gentiles"- the Lord only had dealings with the "Jews" and the "Gentiles" were pretty much on their proverbial own. Now when we get to the idea of "believers" and "unbelievers" when God is talking, He's speaking of people's attitude toward His word soley among the group professing covenant with Him; okay?


Gentiles (the nations) were given the Noahide Covenant to abide by, God didn't leave them on their own.


So when we get to the NT Jesus says, "I am sent only to the house of Israel" because only the house of Israel was porfessing covenant with the Lord.


The lost sheep of Israel Jesus was sent to, was the northern kingdom of Ephraim that were assimilated by the gentiles in their exile. When Solomon fell to idolatry his punishment was that Israel was split into 2 seperate kingdoms. Israel (Ephraim) the northern kingdom who made their capitol Samaria and Judea (Judah) the southern kingdom whose capitol was in Jerusalem. Jesus did most of his preaching in the northern kingdom, not Judea. Jesus went to Judea to judge the pharisee and sadducee sects, he gave them enough rope to hang themselves with which is what him creating christianity was about in Matthew 23:29-36. The wolves were sent his sheep for slaughter so he could judge them.


So an atheist says, "God doesn't exist" and the feeling is mutual, God says, "Atheists don't exist" you see? In His eyes, the only people that actual have "existence" are them who are in covenant with Him.


He doesn't see them he sees only their sins, and he destroys sin. The second covenant at the cross was so we could be covered by the blood of the Lamb so that his wrath would passover us, just like the very first Passover in Egypt. Without the blood of the Lamb covering them, they get to feel his judgement.
edit on 28-11-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)
edit on 28-11-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 10:32 AM
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Believing requires action. Somewhere along the line of history, the two became seperated. Now one can say they believe in Jesus, and practice Buddhism? If you believe that Jesus is Lord, your life will show it. Your speech and your actions will testify of it. Most of ATS will hate you etc.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


That passage with what it before is a pure statement of what Jesus belives in terms of nonduality from my point of view but people who do belive in duality will never agree with it and bring some excuse about context that priests have created to be able to be blind to what he is saying. He is in his mind his soulbrothers and soulsisters and care for them as he care for himself. Pure equality and love for both himself and every blessed being around him.
. I thank him for willingly falling but it would only have been another day for him in paradise if he had not fallen.




posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by Aesir26
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


In the Book of Enoch, the Son of man (ben-Adam) is the "Righteous One" who will preside over the final judgement of the wicked, i.e. the worldly kings and the mighty, who will beg for His mercy.

Jesus identifies himself as the Son of man in the NT saying, "you shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven. (Mk 14:62) He is known as the last Adam.

Esau (Isa/Iesous) is of Edom/Adam. He is true to his father, and is loved by Isaac yet despised by Rachel (name meaning "ewe"/"yew": sheep or tree of poison/death). Esau lives in the open under the sky unlike his homely brother, Jacob (the 'heel-biter"), a tent-dweller and a deceiver. Jacob is described as bare, smooth and simple, which are the characteristics of the Hebrew letter, Zain/Zayin, or "Seven", which means "weapon; phallus; lie; deception; destruction". Gen 36:18 lists "Jeush" as a "son of Esau", which is an anagram of the same letters composing the name, "Jesus" in Hebrew, and means "Gatherer". Further, Esau is the archetypal brother who forgives Jacob for all his transgressions, welcoming him home with an embrace instead of the attack that Jacob is expecting and deserves.

The original story of Job of the Theraputae begins with: "4Know then my children, that you are the generation of a chosen one and take heed of your noble birth.5For I am of the sons of Esau."

Throughout the entire Old Testament, it is Yahweh, lord of worldly wealth, power and war, who is hell-bent on the destruction of Esau/Edom:

“… the people of my curse, to judgment. The sword of the Lord is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the Lord has a sacrifice in Bozrah [a city in Edom], and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea [Edom]. And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.” Isaiah 34:5-7

edit on 28-11-2012 by Aesir26 because: (no reason given)


What did God mean by, "Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated?"



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 06:23 PM
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I have said these words in the opening post , and so begins a new journey.

Peace



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by Dustytoad
reply to post by Aesir26
 


You know,
I am slow with the bible.
I cannot tell if you answered me or not.

One more time now. Please post your own thoughts along with whatever material you wish me to view. I am not you and won't read what you read as you read it, so telling me would help.

So for instance..

What makes someone Free?
AND...
also who are the other people who don't get to be?

Or in another way.. Your bible quotes are going over my head as far as not having context which could be provided at least by your view of the texts, and then more in depth if I so choose to look them up later.
edit on 11/28/2012 by Dustytoad because: (no reason given)



Repentance is what makes someone free. The act of repentance is the step necessary for man to take to receive salvation.

Sin is probably better defined by the word addiction for most people. The SIN part, you know breaking the 10 commandments, seems like everyone agrees that those are some good rules to live by regardless of faith. What we are addicted to leads to our destruction, or eventual unhappiness.

If you are addicted to something you are in essence a slave to that substance or circumstance. For some its drugs, for some its sex, I've even met someone who running was an addiction. Most of you would say how is running an addiction or sin, but let me explain. If you're running because you're running away from the world it's bad for you.

The thing is we are all born with the desire to do these things, so inevitably we will fall. However we were all also born with the ability to know right and wrong. So we do have a choice. At some point in your life you may choose to do only what's right. When you fail and turn to God for his support then you will be able to overcome. We were not designed to overcome sin on our own. We were designed to fall and be raised. Christ came to shed us of our sinful nature and inspire us with the spiritual nature.


The people who don’t get to be are the people who refuse to repent.
edit on 28-11-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)
edit on 28-11-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


That is exactly the response I was looking for..

And yes I agree..

If you walk towards water it gets wetter. If you walk towards desert it gets dryer. You cannot just sit there and do nothing but believe.. We live in a world of action.. Out of eternity and into time... One must move..

Belief that leads to action is strong.
edit on 11/28/2012 by Dustytoad because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 03:08 AM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


"What did God mean by, "Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated?"

Malachi 1:2-4

“Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob; 3but I have hated Esau, and I have made his mountains a desolation and appointed his inheritance for the jackals of the wilderness.” 4Though Edom says, “We have been beaten down, but we will return and build up the ruins”; thus says the LORD of hosts, “They may build, but I will tear down; and men will call them the wicked territory, and the people toward whom the LORD is indignant forever.”


The god(s) of Israel have an undying vengeance against Esau/Edom/Adam:

“Shall I not in that day, says the Lord, even destroy the wise men out of Edom, and understanding out of the mount of Esau?” Obadiah 8

“But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions [some time again in the future]. And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining [male, again] of the house of Esau.” Obadiah 17

“For it came to pass, when David was in Edom, and Joab the captain of the host was gone up to bury the slain, after he had smitten every male in Edom; (For six months did Joab remain there with all Israel, until he had cut off every male in Edom).” 1 Kings 11:15–16

“The vision of Obadiah. Thus says the Lord God concerning Edom; We have heard a rumor from the Lord, and an ambassador is sent among the heathen [the nations], Arise you, and let us rise up against her [Edom] in battle.”
“O how Esau will be ransacked, And his hidden treasures searched out! Obadiah 1,6

The deliverers will ascend Mount Zion To judge the mountain of Esau, And the kingdom will be the LORD’S.
Obadiah 21

Mt. Zion is Mt. (C)Hermon, (Kur-gal) which is the place of the fall of the Watchers (deliverers) led by Azazel in the rebellion against the Most High.

In Hebrew gematria, Esau has a value of 376 which corresponds to נשיאיה Nasi (Ez 32:29) meaning "Prince".
This is the root of Nazir or Nazarene. Esau is also עשו (Gen 12:5) meaning "do, accomplish, fulfill".

In an earlier post, I meant to explain the etymology of the name "Rebekah" and not "Rachel".
Rebekah's name (the mother of Jacob, "the Deceiver") is from the Hebrew רִבְקָה (Rivqah), meaning "the Ensnarer".







edit on 29-11-2012 by Aesir26 because: (no reason given)
edit on 29-11-2012 by Aesir26 because: (no reason given)





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