Warp drive experiments to begin

Originally posted by Diablos
This is not "just some user" on ATS who thinks this, but is representative of the entire physics community. How come the physics community is silent on this, while only the popular media is eating it up? Granted I'm not an expert, but you can ask any physics prof at your local university on what they think of this study.

Well I've been an engineer for 23 years and I'm open minded about it. And I know quite a number of engineers and physicists. I'm pretty sure you couldn't get a consensus across the entire physics community on this. But I know that when the news of the original math breakthroughs and the announcement that NASA was going to do proof of concept testing with the aim of warp drive within the solar system and interstellar travel within the century first came out, I discussed this with a number of them. All but one had heard about it. Their universal response was, "Cool, Star Trek in our lifetimes maybe!" They were excited with the possibilities, not figuring out ways to shoot it down.

And back when I was in college, I discussed things like some of Tesla's most far out ideas, "free energy," etc. with the most brilliant engineering professor I knew. I was sure he would tell me that some of it was impossible, and I was surprised that he responded he totally believed it was all possible. "What about the laws of thermodynamics?" I said. "Well, you're assuming that it would violate them. But the energy will come from somewhere, it's just not something we understand yet," he said.

I guess NASA must think it's worth spending some money on trying too.

Maybe it's possible, maybe not. I agree there are some huge hurdles to overcome with no known way to overcome them yet. But man, if we can, it's going to be awesome. What do you suggest we do, just not even try?

Awaiting the results of this lab experiment eagerly.

Would it also be possible to spin the ship whilst in warp to create 1g for gravity?

Originally posted by Jukiodone
This is a bit like saying Star Trek Teleporters have taken a step forward to reality because scientists think they have teleported a Photon.
To scale this up to actually work on Humans we need a "Heisenberg Compensator" which is actually the theoretical key for operation.
.

If we do develop a FTL/Warp drive and we want to transport matter within this "field" we will also need to invent "Inertial Dampners" to negate the forces involved.

If we have FTL without inertial dampners and we take a theoretical journey to Alpha Centurai we would need to accelerate (change the relative speed) of the mass in the FTL/Warp field in increments meaning we couldnt immediately go from Zero to FTL / from FTL backto Zero as anything with mass would be squished in the process.

This may mean we have to slowly accelerate to FTL then slowly apply the brakes a third of the way into the journey to allow us to slow to zero for arrival at Alph Centurai.

This in fact may mean that the journey takes substantially longer than if we were travelling at near/post lightspeed.

TLDR: Manufacturing/harnessing a mechanism that negates inertia in mass is probably a bigger challenge than accelerating mass itself.

Normally this is true, but the way this "warp drive" works negates this point. Most "drives" work by accelerating the craft, which then carries the things inside with it. However this warp drive would create space time curvature around the craft, accelerating the craft, and everything inside it, uniformly. Thus, nothing would be crushed at all.

Originally posted by shadowland8
Awaiting the results of this lab experiment eagerly.

Would it also be possible to spin the ship whilst in warp to create 1g for gravity?

edit on 29/11/12 by shadowland8 because: (no reason given)

Given the energy needs, then the ship needs to be the same at the front & back at all times if you want it to work. I don't see why you couldn't spin/rotate the middle section independently though.

Dr. White's calculations call for a ship and it's warp-ring, to fit within a 10-meter bubble (32.8 feet) diameter warp bubble. And unlike Star Trek, the ship must first achieve an initial speed of 0.1 (one tenth) of light-speed before the warp activation (to achieve the stated 10-times light-speed) - by use of non-warp propulsion. The warp-ring is a 100-times initial-speed 'multiplier'. A warp-bubble without 'initial speed' goes nowhere - just stationary like the one they are measuring in their lab.

Now what type of non-warp propulsion can provide the initial 0.1 light-speed, and still fit within the 10-meter (32.8 feet) warp-ring-bubble limitation? And it must remain available for the deceleration from 0.1 light-speed at the destination, after warp-drive is shut down. And still arrive at Alpha Centauri star system within 2 weeks. I don't think a VASMIR (or nuclear) system can achieve 0.1 light-speed in months - and fit within the 10-meter (32.8 feet) dimension limit.

Perhaps the warp-ring is intended to be added to a small (less than 30 feet) TR-3B Astra (which cancels 98-percent of it's own mass) for acceleration to high speeds (the 0.1 light-speed perhaps?), using only small rockets.

Note that increasing Dr. White's ship-ring dimensions to accommodate anything larger, would increase the mass-energy again, back to the useless levels of the Alcubierre Drive.

BTW... the Vulcan ship in the Op's source article would not work. It is obviously too long to fit within a warp-sphere equal in diameter to it's warp-ring diameter. They would loose 90-percent of their ship, when they went into warp. lol.

reply to post by Spike Spiegle


As a "slider" I can tell you (from my own perspective anyway) that mankind never solves all of its problems, but LOTS of them fade to the background a bit when we go to the stars.

Frankly -- this planet is living on borrowed time, and that doesn't change, economically, socially, spiritually or otherwise, until we finally, really, truly -- look "up."

reply to post by Isee1111


We're on the brink of war, total economic collapse, possible geologically earth changing events, weve decimated many parts of the world, use nuclear technology in ways that could radiate, kill and render useless most if not all of the world,

And yet, with all of this in mind, especially with the resources and communication at your fingertips, we still act ignorant and fail to see the error of our ways.

So in my opinion, as a species, we shouldnt habitate another planet just yet, We are like a virus to this planet at this point in time, we feed off of her until there is nothing left.

As a science, i agree with the advancement of this warp drive to help us understand and open more doors deep into the most wanted questions about time and space. That I support and applaud When you say warp drive, anybody who has seen star trek instantly thinks of zooming around outerspace but fail to realize the possibilities here on earth. Reading the post I do see we have some smart thinkers who mentioned other possibilities and helped me see that too. I would just like to see this be used responsibly instead of govt coverups and militarizing.

reply to post by mactheaxe


We as a species will probably be ignorant to the error of our ways for quite a while. Who knows, maybe the answer will be revealed by inhabiting multiple planets. Maybe then this planet will come together if we see it happening on others.

Or maybe Earth will be wiped out by an asteroid and the remaining colonies will come together through shared mourning and set aside past differences. In that case it will be imperative to develop warp technology for the good of humanity.

Who knows how our actions, or inaction, will effect our future?

Originally posted by mactheaxe
So in my opinion, as a species, we shouldnt habitate another planet just yet, We are like a virus to this planet at this point in time, we feed off of her until there is nothing left.

I think most organic lifeforms are going to be similar to a virus, always feeding off something. Can't really be avoided. We should work on making it less damaging to the planet though. You're right, there's no excuse for going and destroying another planet they way we have this one. How would we regulate that since there's bound to be powerful corporate interests in space mining/exploration of minerals/etc?

Originally posted by mactheaxe
I would just like to see this be used responsibly instead of govt coverups and militarizing.

That would be nice. Past experience tells me the governments would probably try to keep secrets, spy, sabotage, and waste time instead of working together. In my wildest dreams the world would come together to defray costs and roll out a well-rounded mission to explore new planets.

Star Trek becoming reality. Chinese already done teleport. Only we need is Jean Luc Piccard.

reply to post by Druscilla


The top image is from a Fark photoshop contest. Someone told me that the "computer" part in the background was from a Navy sub, the TV on the wall is some old B&W Admiral console model. The teletypes in the foreground were from an old IBM setup. IIRC.

It does look good. That image is everywhere.

edit to add: The original 2004 thread on Fark is here..

To name humanity's first warp drive star ship the "Gene Roddenberry" or the "William Shatner" would be.....illogical.
A much better choice would obviously be "United Earth Ship Idic". (Let's see how Trek savvy some of you are.)

Originally posted by spock51
To name humanity's first warp drive star ship the "Gene Roddenberry" or the "William Shatner" would be.....illogical.
A much better choice would obviously be "United Earth Ship Idic". (Let's see how Trek savvy some of you are.)

IDIC is a canonical term from Star Trek and stands for "Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations." In Star Trek canon, IDIC is a Vulcan philosophy and also a prestigious Vulcan award of merit. The phrase in Vulcan is Kol-Ut-Shan.

Originally posted by spock51
To name humanity's first warp drive star ship the "Gene Roddenberry" or the "William Shatner" would be.....illogical.
A much better choice would obviously be "United Earth Ship Idic". (Let's see how Trek savvy some of you are.)

If it was developed in whatever country by said country's scientists using said country's money, then they should call it what name is meaningful to them. If it's a true international project, then fair enough, but it won't be.

Originally posted by Bedlam
reply to post by Druscilla

 

The top image is from a Fark photoshop contest. Someone told me that the "computer" part in the background was from a Navy sub, the TV on the wall is some old B&W Admiral console model. The teletypes in the foreground were from an old IBM setup. IIRC.

It does look good. That image is everywhere.

edit to add: The original 2004 thread on Fark is here..

edit on 29-11-2012 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)

Doh.
Well, at least the 2nd image of a future media room seems legit.

I still want my pocket attack helicopter in 2062.

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reply to post by JohnnyAnonymous


Awesome info, thanks for letting us know!

I've been trying to keep up with this as much as I can. I wish Harold would start a website that he could publish his actions and findings on a daily basis This whole this is the up there with the greatest discoveries of mankind.

Actually the maximum speed of this model can get us to the nearest star in about a year (warp 10 in Star Trek is about 1500 times the speed of light). We will be able to make it to the Oort cloud in about 3 or 4 months and therefore have complete access to our solar system. Meaning that the mineral wealth of the solar system can be accessed, imagine an asteroid about 1/3 the size of the moon, made completely of iron. Consider taking that iron an making a facility in space, roughly the size of the Eastern Hemisphere and 1000 miles thick.

Its purpose soley for producing food and as a habitat for perhaps 1 billion people. Our Earth is able to produce and maintain the survival of perhaps 4.5 billion people and that is if everyone were equally divided between the continents. There are only 1 billion people in the Western Hemisphere and 7 billion to date upon the planet.

Its time to begin considering that the human race needs to begin moving out into the solar system.

This technology could very well take 100s of years to fully understand and implement.

It should be called the Enterprise as actually that is what this will be....

Micro-Warp Drive


Any thoughts?

Originally posted by Kashai
Actually the maximum speed of this model can get us to the nearest star in about a year (warp 10 in Star Trek is about 1500 times the speed of light). We will be able to make it to the Oort cloud in about 3 or 4 months and therefore have complete access to our solar system. Meaning that the mineral wealth of the solar system can be accessed, imagine an asteroid about 1/3 the size of the moon, made completely of iron. Consider taking that iron an making a facility in space, roughly the size of the Eastern Hemisphere and 1000 miles thick.

10x the SOL would allow you to make the trip in around 4 months.

Here is a quote released at the time when it first came out a couple of months ago: ” White says this would allow us to visit a spot like Alpha Centauri — a little over four light years from us — in as little as “weeks or months ”

So am not sure if the 10x SOL thing was related to White's work or if it came from the previous work a couple of years ago by Richard Obousy & Gerald Cleaver.