I'm a Prisoner of the State Yet I Have Done Nothing Wrong

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by PatrickGarrow17

 

Slave is exactly the correct term to use. After housing, taxation, transportation costs and basic living costs are deducted from my wage I have nothing else left. I earn slightly above average wage for the UK. So if I have nothing other than existance to work for then that makes me a SLAVE.

let me ask you something...if you had your own land, free and clear...you still would be a slave to that land, if you lived off of it...people that live on subsistance farming work their ass off. if they do not grow crops, raise animals, and all the work every day that goes into maintaining just those 2 things...they die.

Borders are modern invention. Humans lived 200 000 years (minimum) without borders.

reply to post by michael1983l


I think people need to live as a slave to truely understand what SLAVERY is, are you working your body into disrepair daily? Getting barely any food to survive, being treated differently for your skin tone, being beaten for it? Your no slave.

reply to post by NoJoker13


Yes.

Bit sad when 'slave' is defined as "earning a lot less than the football player/reality TV nonenitity whom you spend a fortune watching every week"

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by michael1983l

 

I own my own house, I have almost zero debt and earn above the average salary, I do not depend on the state for any financial support.

Can you please tell me then how am I a financial slave or prisoner to the elite?

Your threads makes no sense, you are not a prisoner you just have to work to live like everyone else so stop moaning. It’s called capitalism if you don’t like it why don’t you go try out North Korea and see how it goes

edit on 27-11-2012 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)

You think you own your own home. Do you pay property taxes? If so, you are being treated as a serf. Stop paying tribute to your master and see how long you stay on your property.
Do you pay income tax? Do you enjoy doing that? Stop, and then see what they do to you.
As long as you keep on paying tribute/bribes to them they will allow you to keep the illusion that you are free.
I burst their bubble. I recorded and filed a UCC-1 Financing Statement and pay no income tax. That's only ONE small thing I've done to get out of the slavery that you are still in.
Another area is the use of Federal Reserve Notes. FRN's are not "lawful money". They are debt script. A "promise to pay" at some future date.
If you are a "US person/citizen", you have contracted to be collateral for the national debt. You are definitely NOT anywhere near debt free. Unless you have the ability to discharge your portion of the debt, according to Public Policy and HJR-192, you are a slave and a prisoner to those who rule over you. You are not free.
Any questions? Gooooooooogle it! The proof is out there.

reply to post by schuyler

The bank didn't loan your son any money. they loaned him credit. As soon as he signed the bank papers the loan was "paid" just by his signature. All this so-called debt is an obligation of the United States since there is no lawful money to pay debts at law. (Look up "the Bankruptcy of the United States of 1933").
These loans are then bundled off and sold as securities. If being foreclosed on, ask for the original doc. The bank won't have it. If they do not have it, do you actually owe them? No, they were paid by another party but tell you that you have to keep on giving them your "money". People are waking up to the mortgage fraud going on, and they are winning and keeping their homes.

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by Ismail

 

The question is how do we change the Game. By creating a political party with the right ideas or by bringing down the system completely and building it a fresh. Either way it will be a difficult road.

Ummmm, how about re-inhabiting the Republic that the founders gave us? It's there. It always has been. The seats in the Republic were vacated. You can't fix a system(Corp US) that was never intended to be for, or by, the people of the sovereign states. We've been deceived. Big time. When did the "Federal Government" get permission to rule over the states? It was never intended to be that way by our founders. Same with the states ruling over the people. Why are you subject to statutes? Statutes are not law. Statutes are policy. Police are policy enforcers. How can there be a crime without a victim? Time for people to wake up and take a look around and see what has been done to them.

Originally posted by QQXXw

Originally posted by Ismail
We are all slaves of the monetary system, mate, it's not just the UK, it's worldwide.
No-one can live without money.

This is the very nature of any exchange based system. You either have something to exchange, or you die. Most people choose to exchange the time and effort that they put into work. This is nothing less than slavery. Work or die. Any monetary system, in fact, any exchange based system will always boil down to this.

We need to stop changing the rules and the players, we need to change the game.

This is the best post in the thread so far, and in my opinion, one of the best of the last few months on ATS

The truth is that the exchange of your time, health and mind (only things that are yours) for their bank notes is NOT
A FAIR TRADE TO YOU.

However, a large amount of propaganda exists to make sure that you do in fact think that it is a fair trade.

edit on 28-11-2012 by QQXXw because: (no reason given)

I agree. Change the game. Reseat/reinhabit the Republic the founders gave us.
When you get those banknotes, not backed by anything, for selling your labor, all your getting is debt script.
(Bankruptcy United States 1933)
They're just a "promise to pay" at some future future date. Definitely not a fair trade.
I keep hearing people say that the US might go broke. If United States was already operating in receivership, 1933 how can it possibly go bankrupt again? Who are the trustees of the 1933 bankruptcy? They're not doing too good a job, are they?

reply to post by Bildo


I hate how American’s always assume everyone on this site is American, I am form the UK so please don’t respond to one of my posts like I am a American it renders much of what you have said totally pointless.

I do not pay any property tax, I do pay tax and no I don’t mind doing it because it goes towards pay for services I require such as Health care, policing, fire and rescue services, paid for my education and even pays to pick up my bins. I see paying tax as paying for services, I don’t even mind that I pay more than those on a lesser income.

Originally posted by votan
reply to post by michael1983l

 

YOu are actually a prisoner of the state not because of mortages but because even if you do payoff your home you just can't sit in your home like if it was your own castle and do whatever yyou want.. you still have to get up and work so you can pay your taxes to your lord.. if not you get kicked off your land.


THere is no were to go to avoid paying taxes.... if you do not pay them you get kicked off you land and jailed... i think you really missed the true point of what you are... you are not a prisoner you are a slave..

edit on 29-11-2012 by votan because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-11-2012 by votan because: (no reason given)

People need to look into getting a "Land Patent". But even with that you still have to pay for electric, etc.

reply to post by Bildo


You have to pay for goods and services, that is just one of the fundamentals of life, it does not make you a slave.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by Bildo

 

I hate how American’s always assume everyone on this site is American, I am form the UK so please don’t respond to one of my posts like I am a American it renders much of what you have said totally pointless.

I do not pay any property tax, I do pay tax and no I don’t mind doing it because it goes towards pay for services I require such as Health care, policing, fire and rescue services, paid for my education and even pays to pick up my bins. I see paying tax as paying for services, I don’t even mind that I pay more than those on a lesser income.

And what does your location by your avatar say? I guess my eyes are just getting old.
Your country is run by the same system as the US. Has been for a long time. Where you been? There's only a few countries that are not yet part of this system. But the way that they have been getting infiltrated and getting the pi** pounded out of them, should take care of these last few.
You need to find out where your tax money actually goes. It's not going where you think it is. And since it's not going where you think it is, something has to fill the void. Your "government" borrows it. Check and see where your Central Bank is. They deceived you. Look into it.

reply to post by Bildo

I agree. Change the game. Reseat/reinhabit the Republic the founders gave us. When you get those banknotes, not backed by anything, for selling your labor, all your getting is debt script. (Bankruptcy United States 1933) They're just a "promise to pay" at some future future date. Definitely not a fair trade. I keep hearing people say that the US might go broke. If United States was already operating in receivership, 1933 how can it possibly go bankrupt again? Who are the trustees of the 1933 bankruptcy? They're not doing too good a job, are they?

Dude, even if we were american, which we're not, how does reinstating the Republic equate with "changing the game ?" If your republic could'nt stand once, why should it stand this time ? What magical tweak will make it work ? I don't understand why you are advocating that a return to the past is change, and that a return to a system that has demonstrated it's inability to stand up to the power of $$$, is somehow progress.

I mean you understand that the past is a build-up to the present, right ?

Sorry, but I don't get it.

This kind of discussion is always interesting to me. I want give something back, so let's have a quick history lesson, you guys will realize how distorted our modern world is from fairness in general.

"""
Over 2400 years ago, the famous Greek general, Pericles, said, "It is true that we (Athenians) are called a democracy, for the administration is in the hands of the many and not the few, with equal justice to all alike in their private disputes."

Only in Athens, and only for a short time, "rule by many" meant that all citizens had to be willing to take an active part in government. That was the law.

Each year, 500 names were drawn from all the citizens of Athens. Those 500 citizens had to serve for one year as the law makers of ancient Athens.

All citizens of Athens were required to vote on any new law that this body of 500 citizens created. One man, one vote, majority ruled. Women, children, and slaves were not citizens, and thus could not vote.

After the Peloponnesian War with Sparta, which Athens lost, once again Athens was ruled by a small group of people. But for a brief period of about 100 years, Athens was a democracy. It was not a perfect democracy, but it established the roots of democracy. We owe Athens a lot!

A Direct Democracy: A government in which people vote to make their own rules and laws

A Representative Democracy: A government in which people vote for representatives. The representatives make rules and laws that govern themselves and the people.
"""

So real Athens democracy only run for around a century.. and it was later replaced by Aristocracy which was common at the time.

Recap on aristocracy.

"""
Aristocracy (Greek ἀριστοκρατία aristokratía, from ἄριστος aristos "excellent," and κράτος kratos "power") is a form of government in which a few elite citizens rule.[1] The term derives from the Greek aristokratia, meaning "rule of the best".[2] In origin in Ancient Greece, it was conceived of as rule by the best qualified citizens, and contrasted with monarchy. In later times, aristocracy was usually seen as rule by a privileged group (the aristocratic class), and contrasted with democracy.[1]

The concept evolved in Ancient Greece, whereby a council of famous citizens was commonly used and contrasted with direct democracy in which a council of male citizens was appointed as their "senate". The Greeks did not like the concept of monarchy, and as their democratic system fell, aristocracy was upheld.
"""

There was once a Athenian law codifier named Draco who once wrote a law:
Slavery For Debt
Through the laws of Draco, those in debt could be made slaves -- but only if they were members of the lower class. This means members of a genos (the gennetai) could not be sold as slaves, yet their hangers-on (orgeones) could.

Now go read about Plutocracy, and then come back and tell me, do you still think we live in democratic times?

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by PatrickGarrow17

 

What you are describing is the Marxist eternal battle between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie, if you want to resort to the communist cry for anarchy and the rise of the proletariat then feel free but just look at how that’s worked out historically.

So Marx bitched about it and now anyone else that does is a bitch. Solutions that came out of the Marx schools were not great its true. But its not anarchy to look for ways to change the nature of the relationship.

Originally posted by Ismail
reply to post by Bildo

 

I agree. Change the game. Reseat/reinhabit the Republic the founders gave us. When you get those banknotes, not backed by anything, for selling your labor, all your getting is debt script. (Bankruptcy United States 1933) They're just a "promise to pay" at some future future date. Definitely not a fair trade. I keep hearing people say that the US might go broke. If United States was already operating in receivership, 1933 how can it possibly go bankrupt again? Who are the trustees of the 1933 bankruptcy? They're not doing too good a job, are they?

Dude, even if we were american, which we're not, how does reinstating the Republic equate with "changing the game ?" If your republic could'nt stand once, why should it stand this time ? What magical tweak will make it work ? I don't understand why you are advocating that a return to the past is change, and that a return to a system that has demonstrated it's inability to stand up to the power of $$$, is somehow progress.

I mean you understand that the past is a build-up to the present, right ?

Sorry, but I don't get it.

edit on 29-11-2012 by Ismail because: (no reason given)

Americans forget that not long ago in our history we had "free land" and could live off it. Then the banks cought up with us out here on the frontier. So we started to hock our land.....and thats what started the slave to bank cycle again.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by Bildo

 

You have to pay for goods and services, that is just one of the fundamentals of life, it does not make you a slave.

The Federal Reserve prints up money out of thin air. It cant be said they they and some other powers that be really know much about goods and services from our end.

reply to post by Logarock

So Marx bitched about it and now anyone else that does is a bitch. Solutions that came out of the Marx schools were not great its true. But its not anarchy to look for ways to change the nature of the relationship.

In fairness I don’t think you actually understand what I am saying; the post I was replying to what very much a Marxist argument with an argument about clashes arising from social stratification. The call for anarchy is a common theme in Marxism ideology calling for the rise of the proletariat through revolution which would by its nature be an anarchist movement.

The Federal Reserve prints up money out of thin air. It cant be said they they and some other powers that be really know much about goods and services from our end.

Again this thread is based on a UK perspective your American views on monetary policy are not relevant. If you were to discuss the Bank of England’s policy of qualitative easing then we would have something to discuss. It is not “printing money from thing air”, the policy of qualitative easing is a means for the central bank of the state to increase excess currency reserves to increase the volume of cash in the economy to stimulate growth, this is done by buying up financial assists as opposed to government bonds. This has two main effects it increases the cash available to banks to lend to consumers to get the lending system working again but also prevents deflation. The problem then with just “printing money from thing air” as you say is that to do so would lead to massive inflation as the qualitative easing is not controlled you end up with hyperinflation which would be counterproductive and destroy the economy such as what happened with Germany after WWI or present day Zimbabwe. That is a very quick explanation of what you call “printing money” however strictly speaking at the end of the qualitative easing process because of the way financial systems work the cash injected into the economy should technically be returned to the central bank once the economy has recovered in the form of bonds which are then destroyed.

Originally posted by Ismail
I'm not talking revolution here. I don't believe in revolution, because history has shown that revolution does not work either. I'm saying we just need to say no. Stop working, stop voting until the whole thing grinds to a halt, and we can finally collectively come to some sort of decision that does not lead to more of the same.

Our economic system is not economical at all. It is wastefull, polluting, and harmfull, and we need to change it. Because THAT is what pulls people out of their beds every morning, THAT is what is considered by our governement when they decide whether or not to open hospitals and schools, and THAT is what decides who lives and who dies all over this planet, day in, day out.

I'm tired of people dying in the third world for our flatscreen TV's. I'm tired of slave labor in Asia so we can buy cr*p that we throw away or that breaks after a year. And I'm tired of hearing that, despite all these years of doing just that, if only we could tweak this law or elect this other guy, or throw these people out of the country, things would get better. They haven't, don't and won't.

You can't use democracy correctly in an inherently unfair economical system. Period.

edit on 28-11-2012 by Ismail because: (no reason given)

What you describe is a revolution, a 'bloodless' revolution, but the aftermath of this would amount to a revolution that most people wouldn't have the stomach for, apart from 'preppers' who'd basically claim their right wing apocalypse was correct as prophecised by the likes of Fox and it will be the fault of the 'left wing' rather than a capitalist elite. No electricity, no food, no transport, no police, burning, looting mass rapes and murder and the rule of mob. By the time that collective decision you speak of was made, people would have lived through a near-apocalypse. The horrors of the French Revolution would be nothing if this happened in large cities, many times the size of 18th Century Paris, when people are reliant on all modern life affords us.

I don't disagree with the need for this change and I'm as anti-capitalist as any on here (my politics have been like this for decades and pre-date any recent financial crisis). However, we've just seen an incredibly low turn out in a national election here and despite the pathetic response (where in one area no one voted at all ) and yet the government still saw it as legitimate and acceptable.