New smoking guns in Apollo moon hoax: White cloth canvas on floor clearly seen!

Originally posted by delusion
Okay, according to you can you estimate how many degrees that covers 180, 60?

I don't quite see how the size of the room would change the fact that he rotates.

there's about 60 meters from one end of this image to the other end, that covers 360 degrees

reply to post by MortPenguin


YOU don't listen and haven't got a clue watch the video exponent linked to see what is shown in the video here is the lander shot!



When lining up the rock shadows it's the tip of the rock with it's corresponding tip on the shadow look at your red lines they are not right!!!

They put retro-reflectors on the moon in this mission that can be (and are) routinely pinged from Earth. They are physically there. Many countries have made use of these reflectors.

The detection on Earth of reflections from laser ranging retro-reflectors (LRRRs, or mirrors used as targets for Earth-based tracking lasers) on lunar laser ranging experiments left on the Moon is evidence of landings.[5][6][7][8]

Retroflector left on the Moon by Apollo 14
Quoting from James Hansen's biography of Neil Armstrong (First Man: The Life of Neil A. Armstrong):


"For those few misguided souls who still cling to the belief that the Moon landings never happened, examination of the results of five decades of LRRR experiments should evidence how delusional their rejection of the Moon landing really is."[9]

The NASA-independent Observatoire de la Côte D’Azur, McDonald, Apache Point, and Haleakala observatories regularly use the Apollo LRRR.[10] Lick Observatory attempted to detect from Apollo 11's retroreflector while Armstrong and Aldrin were still on the Moon but did not succeed until August 1, 1969.[11] The Apollo 14 astronauts deployed a retroreflector on February 5, 1971 and McDonald Observatory detected it the same day. The Apollo 15 retroreflector was deployed on July 31, 1971 and was detected by McDonald Observatory within a few days.[12]

The image on the left shows what is considered some of the most unambiguous evidence. This experiment repeatedly fires a laser at the Moon, at the spots where the Apollo landings were reported. The dots show when photons are received from the Moon. The dark line shows that a large number come back at a specific time, and hence were reflected by something quite small (well under a metre in size). Photons reflected from the surface come back over a much broader range of times (the whole vertical range of the plot corresponds to only 30 meters or so in range). The concentration of photons at a specific time appears when the laser is aimed at the Apollo 11, 14 or 15 landing sites; otherwise the expected featureless distribution is observed.[13] The Apollo reflectors are still in use

Source: en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Ove38

Originally posted by delusion
Okay, according to you can you estimate how many degrees that covers 180, 60?

I don't quite see how the size of the room would change the fact that he rotates.

there's about 60 meters from one end of this image to the other end, that covers 360 degrees

Nice job on the image.
Now follow the steps.
He starts with his back to sun, when he's turned 180 degrees the sun appears, then he continues turning.
Why did you use the pics of the sun, taken when he's facing it, to say that the sun was on that side in the final photo,ie. on the left at approx 90 degrees, when clearly that was taken when he was facing 180 degreees from his starting position, and the final picture was after he had completed the turn?

I'm starting to be a bit disturbed at the thinking that makes you think this is evidence, sorry but I really am.
Maybe I haven't understood what you think it means?

reply to post by elitelogic

Another experiment that can only have been done because the astronauts were PHYSICALY there to gather the data, is the solar wind experiment.

The Solar Wind Composition Experiment was performed on Apollo 11, 12, 14, 15, and 16. It consisted of an aluminum foil sheet, 1.4 meters by 0.3 meters, that was deployed on a pole facing the sun. On Apollo 16, a platinum sheet was also used. This foil was exposed to the sun for periods ranging from 77 minutes on Apollo 11 to 45 hours on Apollo 16, allowing solar-wind particles to embed themselves into the foil. The foil was then returned to Earth for laboratory analysis. This allowed the chemical composition of the embedded solar wind to be determined more accurately than would be possible if the measurement were made using remotely controlled instruments on the Moon, but limited the periods at which observations could be made.

Un-deniable.
www.lpi.usra.edu...

Originally posted by delusion

Another experiment that can only have been done because the astronauts were PHYSICALY there to gather the data, is the solar wind experiment.

Well, NASA could have easily faked that by cooking the foil in Stanley Kubrick's microwave.

Originally posted by Ove38

Originally posted by tigercat1971
The original problem still remains : there are no tyre tracks and given that quite clealry there are footprints then there is absolutely no reason whatsoever why there should not be any tyre tracks. Whatever reason can be invented to excuse the lack of visibility of tyre tracks would be applicable to the footprints.

no tyre tracks

Photo no. 1: AS17-137-20979HR
Photo no. 2: AS15-85-11470HR
Photo no. 3: AS15-88-11901HR
Photo no. 4: AS17-143-21932HR
Photo no. 5: AS15-88-11902HR

The only stupid explanation given, is that the rovers were not so heavy on the moon, so that the astronauts could carry them around, which would explain why there are bootprints, but no tyre tracks. LOL

I guess nobody has an explanation for the absence of the TIRE tracks.

Originally posted by nOraKat
I guess nobody has an explanation for the absence of the TIRE tracks.

Yep you win, I guess not seeing tracks in a few selected photos means the WHOLE THING was faked.

And do you have an explanation for the FACT that shots of the earth from the alleged 'moon studio' match perfectly weather patterns at the time?
That is, LIVE shots, on LIVE television?
That cannot be ignored.
But it will be.

reply to post by nOraKat


Here is the story that goes with the first photo from that list. It's from the apollo 17 mission.

Picture of the replacement fender taken at about 143:46:34 by Gene Cernan, just before driving off from Station 2. Jack Schmitt is already seated. The dust-coated- originally-blue Traverse Gravimeter is mounted on the back of the Rover just above the replacement fender. Gene took this photo, in part, to document its condition after the 9.1 kilometer drive out from the LM and, in part, to document his handiwork. At the end of EVA-3 Gene decided to bring the fender back to Earth and, as of the late 1990s, it was still on display at the National Air & Space Museum in Washington D.C. Ron Creel has provided a summary ( 1.3 Mb PDF ) of the fender extension losses that occurred on all three Rover missions.

Get that? tThey had been stationary, and fixing the rear fender, walking aroud the rover. Any tracks would most likely have been obscured.
And the second photo after that in the series...tracks. Yay!
AS17-137-20983

'WWu777', this is what could explain the "White cloth canvas":

wiki.answers.com...

The astronauts did, indeed, leave a lot of stuff on the moon, including their backpacks (known as the PLSS, or Personal Life Support System). The only way the astronauts could throw stuff out of the Lunar lander was to open the door. They were able to toss their PLSS's because, after their final EVA they hooked their suits into the Life Support systems aboard the lunar lander.

www.airspacemag.com...

Seismic sensors left on the surface by the astronauts even recorded the thumps of the gear hitting the moon. As Mission Control radioed to the two explorers: "We observed your equipment jettison on the TV, and the passive seismic experiment recorded shocks when each PLSS hit the surface" Armstrong responded, "You can't get away with anything anymore, can you?"

And as i posted on Page 19 this thread www.abovetopsecret.com... www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Q: Did our astronauts really go there?

AC: I know there has been a lot of talk about this. Many of the pictures that you have seen from the surface of the moon were faked, because the actual pictures showed that there was "stuff" all over the place. Yes, they did go, but there was manipulation of the result involved.

I assume that when Alex Collier says "stuff" all over the place then i think he means "remnants" left by aliens, maybe possibly "remnants" of the battle between the aliens about 9600 years ago
From around 39:00 into the above Moon Lecture, Alex Collier mentioned that some of the "Domed cities" on the Moon were destroyed by particle beam weapons during a war between the Orion group and a group from the Pleiades about 9600 years ago, so i think that when he said "stuff" all over the place then i think he possibly means "debris" from a war between the aliens 9600 years ago.

So we have 2 options about the socalled "White cloth canvas":

1) The socalled "White cloth canvas" is the astronauts' own stuff thrown to the ground on Lunar surface, or

2) Remnants from aliens

It's possible there could be lots of alien-"debris" on Moon's surface, but i more likely think that the socalled "White cloth canvas" we are talking about in this thread is 1)

reply to post by nOraKat


Photo number 2 from apollo 15...(from the above list of magical wizard flying rover photos)
AS15-85-11470
This is the first photo after they had got the rover set up. Again, lots of activity around the rover; THEY HAVE NOT BEEN DRIVING.

143:03:51 Dave is probably testing the Rover steering prior to maneuvering the Rover into a down-Sun heading so that he can re-initialize the navigation system based on the known position of the Sun. In this down-Sun photo, we can see the ALSEP in the background and, on the Rover, the maps and 16-mm movie camera mounted on the accessory staff forward of Jim's seat and the tool rack at the back of the vehicle. The umbrella-shaped high-gain antenna at the front of the Rover is pointed straight up, the TV is in its stowed position, the low-gain antenna just forward of Dave is pointed straight up. The small bag mounted on the back of Jim's seat is the BSLSS (Buddy Secondary Life Support System) bag ( 159k ) which contains a set of hoses and fittings which would allow the astronauts to share cooling water in case one of them lost cooling. Note the rearward fender extensions on both visible fenders. During the flight out from Earth, these were stacked onto the forward sections and, during deployment, the astronauts slid these extensions aft on guide rails until they locked into place. On both Apollo 16 and 17, the Commanders accidentally tore the right rear extension off by walking too close and brushing against them. Ron Creel has provided a summary ( 1.3 Mb PDF ) of the fender extension losses that occurred on all three Rover missions.

Here's a photo just prior to the reconnaisance mission (ie, whatever it was they were about to drive around doing).
AS15-85-11471

143:03:51 Jim took this excellent picture of Dave maneuvering the Rover at the start of the EVA-2 traverse. The Solar Wind Collector is visible beyond the Rover TV camera. At the front of the Rover, we can see the closed battery covers. In front of Jim's seat, we can see his footrests. Note that there is dust coming off the wheels as Dave maneuvers. This picture also gives us a good view of Dave's RCU-mounted Hasselblad camera and of the wire Rover wheels. The traverse maps are mounted on Jim's handhold and the Buddy Secondary Life Support System (BSLSS) bag is hanging from the back of Jim's seat. A high-resolution detail ( 169k ) shows Dave's Hasselblad, the DAC, the handcontroller, and the traverse map. Note the RCU bracket mounted on the back of the DAC.

Do your own homework

reply to post by WWu777


This is some of the most amazing evidence I have seen. I will ask for a debate next week at my debating club on this topic, since this evidence is so amazing!

Originally posted by ArbiterOfTheiPhones
reply to post by WWu777

 

This is some of the most amazing evidence I have seen. I will ask for a debate next week at my debating club on this topic, since this evidence is so amazing!

With respect, please read the thread first. Then you'd learn that this 'amazing evidence' is total nonsense, cherry picking of the worst kind.

Originally posted by ArbiterOfTheiPhones
reply to post by WWu777

 

This is some of the most amazing evidence I have seen. I will ask for a debate next week at my debating club on this topic, since this evidence is so amazing!

Yes, please read through the thread before you jump on the hoax band wagon and (IMO)begin to perpetuate ignorance, paranoia, pseudo-science and lies.

Take a step back and study the Apollo story from a neutral point of view, that would include researching the originators of the 'moon hoax' theories themselves. But most of all be objective and use logic.

I really considered this idea of the LEM being on a different angle. But this photo looks flat as the posts pic you thought was uneven aswell. When the horizon is straightened this becomes clearer (so many apollo 11 photos do this). I drew in approx where Buzz is in the reverse photo. This also appears completely flat all the way to the horizon. I drew in the approx location of the photographer as well. Please don't just insult me or tell me these are grossly uneven. Show me the uneveness.

Originally posted by ArbiterOfTheiPhones
reply to post by WWu777

 

This is some of the most amazing evidence I have seen. I will ask for a debate next week at my debating club on this topic, since this evidence is so amazing!

I seriously thought this a sarcasm.
But after reading their other posts... no.

Originally posted by delusion

Originally posted by nOraKat
I guess nobody has an explanation for the absence of the TIRE tracks.

Yep you win, I guess not seeing tracks in a few selected photos means the WHOLE THING was faked.

No one says "the WHOLE THING was faked" it was partly faked, we are only discussing which parts were faked. I believe a part of the rockets went to the moon, I believe the landers lander on the moon, I believe equipment were deployed on the Moon's surface, but I don't believe any of the twelve (69-72) astronauts walked on the Moon's surface, that part was faked on earth. The Apollo missions were only robotic missions to the moon.

Originally posted by MortPenguin
I really considered this idea of the LEM being on a different angle. But this photo looks flat as the posts pic you thought was uneven aswell.

I'm not sure why that looks flat to you. The moon is quite a varied terrain and even though they aimed for flat terrain it's not completely flat at all as you can see from this stereoscopic view:

When the horizon is straightened this becomes clearer (so many apollo 11 photos do this). I drew in approx where Buzz is in the reverse photo. This also appears completely flat all the way to the horizon. I drew in the approx location of the photographer as well. Please don't just insult me or tell me these are grossly uneven. Show me the uneveness.

Certainly:


All it takes is a few degrees shift in terrain to move shadows significantly. You should never expect shadows on uneven terrain to converge to a single point. It's not a reliable form of analysis as I hope I've shown with my various examples.

Lets not forget that we also have video of most of this too, and so if NASA did indeed make multiple sets and composite (really excellently considering this was 1969) pictures, they still had to recreate the full sets for the videos (where the technology certainly didn't exist to fake them).

I'm afraid you're seeing ghosts in these shadows. At least you have been civil and illustrated your point clearly. I really do thank you for that, it's nice to debate with someone who wants to understand rather than wants to dictate, and I apologise if I have been harsh at any point. I am quite jaded after years of debate and it's easy to dismiss arguments without doing a thorough job.

Originally posted by Ove38

Originally posted by delusion

Originally posted by nOraKat
I guess nobody has an explanation for the absence of the TIRE tracks.

Yep you win, I guess not seeing tracks in a few selected photos means the WHOLE THING was faked.

No one says "the WHOLE THING was faked" it was partly faked, we are only discussing which parts were faked. I believe a part of the rockets went to the moon, I believe the landers lander on the moon, I believe equipment were deployed on the Moon's surface, but I don't believe any of the twelve (69-72) astronauts walked on the Moon's surface, that part was faked on earth. The Apollo missions were only robotic missions to the moon.

An interesting perspective, but there's a key problem with this idea which is the SEQ bay pendulum (and the videos of all the 1/6g activities):



This, the dust behaviour and similar events like the hammer/feather experiment are simply not reproducible on Earth. They need to be done in a 1/6g environment and the duration of the pendulum or some of the EVA videos for example mean that these videos are legitimate.

If these videos are legitimate, astronauts walked on the moon and so the rationale for believing your theory is massively reduced. I still contend that the anomalies you see are due to a lack of understanding of how shadows behave and I think you should recreate the scenes yourself as they are fairly easy to do with a single light and a dark room.