Originally posted by Muaddib
You don't seem to differentiate between radical Muslims and moderate Muslims....we are talking about radicals Muslims and what the Koran teaches. I gave you a link to the Koran, read it and then come back and tell us it is a peaceful book, and Mohammed was a peaceful man...

Muaddib dude I see your point as well but we to have had dealings and you seem to be hanging on like a tick on a hound .....Durben agreed to drink a beer and pull back and I know you can do the same common man...

Exscuse the pun but cant we all just get along.......Its a proven fact that both of you are pationate of your views but in the maylay of your present fued the rest of us have had to take a sit down and I think the flow was interupted....now if Durben is willing to be cool can you not as well ....in fact can you both let it go for a while I know both of you can be cooler than you are now......

So given the contrary attitudes I know not to be indicative to both of you...pull back and breath Durben you go drink your beer dude and Muaddib man get some fine wine and relax for a while ok.

You two dont make me out the liar when I say you are both better than is now showing.....

Originally posted by Muaddib
You do not want to accept that the christian crusades was a response to the Muslim crusade, later on it became an attrocity against many, including non-muslims.

Still this rather tiresome comprehension problem. Now what was it that you said again?

Now I am not claiming that all Muslims follow this radical view of Islam, but it is the way it was meant to be followed and it is exactly the first thing that the newly converted Muslims did in the Dark Ages...

So I ask you again... what is your point and what is it you're proposing?

Well I guess Ill see you guys after your drinks okay I will check in periodically for a sign you two are back to the way I know you guys fair yet pationate and above all usually polite and calm.....I look forward to coming back to the thread soon you guys please make it sooner rather than later okay I enjoy our usuall interlectual jousts .....Peace!!

Originally posted by Durden
.......................
So I ask you again... what is your point and what is it you're proposing?

The point is that the conflicts that radical Muslims are involved in are not caused by what the US or Israel has done, if this was so there would be no other radical muslim conflict anywhere else in the world, yet more than half of all conflicts have radical Muslims as the cause.... The US was attacked, the only possible anwser was to attack back, whether or not people want to admit it Iraq/SAddam was part of the problem.....

The question is not what I propose, as something is already being done about it by the coalition..... the question is, what is it that you are proposing?....since you seem to think what is being done is wrong....

Do you think all conflicts in which radical muslims are involved will stop with your suggestion? If Israel and the US did not exist, you think there would be no other conflicts and wars in the world in which radical Muslims are involved?

BTW, if it was up to me i would love if there was only peace all over the world, but peace is just a time in between wars, and history has proven this.

[edit on 25-10-2004 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
The question is not what I propose, as something is already being done about it by the coalition..... the question is, what is it that you are proposing....since you seem to think what is being done is wrong....

Aren't we talking of the 'violent' Quran anymore..? Tell me, what is it that the coalition has done about muslims in general, their belief system and their holy book?

[edit on 25-10-2004 by Durden]

Originally posted by Durden

Aren't we talking of the 'violent' Quran anymore..? Tell me, what is it that the coalition has done about muslims in general, their belief system and their holy book?

[edit on 25-10-2004 by Durden]

What exactly did the world do for radical Muslims to bring more than half of the world conflicts/wars?.... If the Koran/Quran was so peaceful, why is it that most of these wars and conflicts involve radical muslims?....why is it that they fight their own people?...those that do not follow Sharia or the Koran to the letter...

The coalition is fighting two wars, yet the radicals are involved in more than 12 conflicts/wars all over the world...without counting terrorist attacks in which some countries have done nothing in retaliation..

Do you have any idea that there are American soldiers that have died trying to save Iraqis from insurgent attacks? not all iraqis are being killed by the coalition, and of course the media does not report this.



[edit on 25-10-2004 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
What exactly did the world do for radical Muslims to bring more than half of the world conflicts/wars?.... If the Koran/Quran was so peaceful, why is it that most of these wars and conflicts involve radical muslims?....why is it that they fight their own people?...

...And you keep avoiding my question:

What is it that the coalition has done about muslims in general, their belief system and their holy book?

And if nothing is being done in this aspect; what exactly do you propose should be done?

[edit on 25-10-2004 by Durden]

Originally posted by Durden

What is it that the coalition has done about muslims in general, their belief system and their holy book?

And if nothing is being done in this aspect; what exactly is it you're proposing should be done?

Durden......how many conflicts are there in the world in which radical Muslims are involved and in which the coalition has never been there?......

You keep trying to blame that the response from radicals is that the coalition is doing nothing for them.....yet, they are fighting in half of the world, committing mass killings even on their own people.... in some cases just because of racial differences.....

Do tell me.....would there be no Muslim radicals involved in any conflicts in the world if the coalition did not exist?............

And what in the world does the coalition have anything to do with the Koran?.........

I told you already........what the coalition is doing is the only thing that would resolve all these conflicts......well, not resolve, but it is better than to give up on their demands....

How do you respond to people that are asking to have back all the lands they used to have in the Middle Ages? what do you do if people commit mass killings and start up wars because they want Kashmir, Jerusalem, Andalusia, (which is all of Spain to the Muslims) Italy, France......

What do you do when they ask even more, when they ask that the world should submit to Islam?........

You tell me....what do you propose?




[edit on 25-10-2004 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
You do know they conquered Spain, Italy and France...don't you?

Wrong. The North African Moors (Muslim) did conquer the Wisigoth kingdom of Spain in 712-713, and tried to push into France in 732. Didn't work.

In my last post, I made a mistake. There were raids by Muslims in Southern France and Sicily from approximately 850 AD to 1050. But no permanent occupation on the continent, expect for Sicily.

Jakomo said: September 11th had more to do with American foreign policy over the last 30 years than ANYTHING to do with the religion of Islam. If you don't realize this then you should educate yourself.

By denigrating people's beliefs, you anger them.

This is what amazes me on this forum. A few American posters seem to believe that by denigrating or accusing from on high - either the Muslims, the French or the Canadians - they will confound these people, cause them to admit to their wrongdoings and wickedness, and get them to beg for forgiveness. And then these American posters seem so surprised when Muslim, French or Canadian posters are offended and lash out. It's as though they believe no one outside America or Britain is entitled to have pride.

I understand why Americans are angry about 9/11, really I do. But accusing Islam, blaming France and sneering at Canada's weakness is not going to solve the matter and bring peace. If anything, it'll just make people that angrier at you.

Originally posted by Muaddib
Durden......how many conflicts are there in the world in which radical Muslims are involved and in which the coalition has never been there?......

Does this answer my question? No.

You keep trying to blame that the response from radicals is that the coalition is doing nothing for them.....yet, they are fighting in half of the world, committing mass killings even on their own people.... in some cases just because of racial differences.....

I'm sorry, I said what? I mean really, talk about putting words in the mouths of others..

Do tell me.....would there be no Muslim radicals involved in any conflicts in the world if the coalition did not exist?............

And what in the world does the coalition have anything to do with the Koran?.........

I told you already........what the coalition is doing is the only thing that would resolve all these conflicts......

And this answers my question....how exactly?

How do you respond to people that are asking to have back all the lands they used to have in the Middle Ages? what do you do if people commit mass killings......

This is amazing. All these words and no answer to what I asked you. You stated earlier that the teachings of the Quran were violent and although not all muslims are behaving like the radical groups, you stated:

...but it is the way it was meant to be followed and it is exactly the first thing that the newly converted Muslims did in the Dark Ages...

IMO, essentially saying that the way the violent extremists read the Quran is the way it should be read an acted upon. This is what I responded to initially. I also asked you what you, in light of this view of yours, propose?

You stated that something is already being done about it by the coalition. And I obviously wondered what you meant by that?

Is this a difficult question?

Originally posted by Otts
Jakomo said: September 11th had more to do with American foreign policy over the last 30 years than ANYTHING to do with the religion of Islam. If you don't realize this then you should educate yourself.

By denigrating people's beliefs, you anger them.

Sure, poor radical Islamists...they are waging wars all over the world, committing mass murders even among their own people, and sending their own kids to blow themselves up and kill others, because the west did them wrong....

Muaddib - I didn't say that what the terrorists are doing is right. It's violent, it's horrible and it won't solve anything. But blaming it on all the Muslims or their religion isn't going to solve anything either.

Muaddib:

your stupidity makes you blind to what is truly happening....radical muslim conflicts account for more than half of the world's wars at this moment without counting terrorist attacks to nations that decided not to do anything against terrorism and radical muslims....

Either you're a liar or you're misinformed. You choose.

Radical Muslim conflicts account for more than half the world's wars at this moment WITHOUT counting terrorism? PROVE IT OR DON'T SAY IT. You can't prove it because it's not true.

So then you ARE a liar.

If not, prove it.

yet more than half of all conflicts have radical Muslims as the cause....

More lies. What percentage?

What exactly did the world do for radical Muslims to bring more than half of the world conflicts/wars?....

Again, you say it like it's the truth, but again, it's a lie.

And don't be insulted that I call you a liar. You should just learn to get better at it.

I suggest you read the Qu'ran or actually SPEAK to a Muslim. Your "facts" are not facts and your "truths" are lies.


May God forgive you for your hatemongering.



jako

Originally posted by Muaddib
Humm, let me see....oh yeah the coalition were just going around throwing roses at the feet of saddam, a regime that was funding and was helping in many ways terrorism against the west.......

Didn't the coalition oust Saddam? didn't Libya get rid of its wmd programe and announced publicly that other regimes in the middle east should do the same and denounce terrorism?......

What does this have to do with the question I asked you?

The one that keeps avoiding to respond the questions is you....

What do you propose since you seem you have a better choice than what the coalition has been doing?....

Is that a difficult question for you?....

What is it about my questions that can't comprehend? Are you simply plain incoherent to the actual questions I'm posing?

Why is it that you seem think that I'm the one who should solve an issue that you seem to have? I'm not the one stating that the teachings of the Quran are violent if they are followed 'correctly' (in your opinion).

Try again. And put some more effort into your reply. And I mean brain-wise. Long posts with little to no content pertaining to the issue at hand doesn't do anything to clairfy your opinion in this.


[edit on 25-10-2004 by Durden]

Long posts, which you obviously did not read......, with links and evidence that Islam is not peaceful is not proof to you?......