Originally posted by vincere7
I had no idea that a person called paperclip was the voice of Islam.
In case you are ignorant of the facts of reality like pretty much every peace loving muslim who has posted on this thread SUICIDE BOMBERS generally are not DEFENDING jack #e. Shall we delve into all the killing and bombings over the last decade for ample evidence or would you like to paint another picture of voluptuous frogsh%*t.
If your idea of a complex inner struggle includes blowing bus fulls of children up you are sick twisted individual willing to say anything to justify what HAS hhappened and WILL continue to happem. Inner struggle. YES it's an inner struggle within Islam it's called TO MURDER or NOT TO MURDER. Sadly many muslims choose the first option.
Lets see jihad is not what I or Osama think it is. Please Mr. Paperclip will you stand up and tell the rest of the suicide bombers and those about to fly anymore airplanes into our buildings that they are not thinking correctly that their understanding of it is very vague, incomplete, inaccurate and very simplified.
By the end of the day we will count how many muslims listen to YOUR peace loving beliefs instead of jihad as described by mohammed. It's real easy to find out just follow the dead bodies.
Ahh, vincere7, there you are!
First of all, it is Miss Paperclip
I have offered you the deffinition of Jihad as it is accepted by majority of Muslims.
There are one billion Muslims on this planet living in over 100 countries, in dozens of ethnical and racial groups, political systems, traditions and social groups. If majority of them accepted Bin Laden's version of Jihad you would be dead now. And most of other non-muslims too. The fact that you are alive tells us that it is MINORITY who are following the radical way.
I did not say that suicide bombing is defense. Please explain why you thought I said that and where exactly.
I explained the meaning of Jihad as defined by Islam, not the version Bin Laden defined for his own goals. Or palestinian suicide bombers.
To count dead bodies wouldn't be very productive in this discussion. Or do you want me to count the bodies of dead Iraqis in First Gulf War, bodies of dead Muslims in Bosnia, bodies of dead palestinian civilians, bodies of civilians in Checnya. I am sure that number is a LOT higher then 3,000.
Besides, dead civilians in WTC and dead children in Bosnia hold the same value to me, life is sacred regardless of nation, ethnicity, language or religion. Those were all innocent victims of ignorance and hate.
If you look deeper into the situation we have in the world now, you might notice that huge part of violence has very little to do with religion itself.
Current wave of bombings in Iraq is mainly directed at muslims, "collaborators", police and army recruits. It is a political conflict, like many others, a conflict over who will have more power.
If you look at Bin Laden's "manifestos", he is angry at USA not because they are christians, but because they spread their way of life with force around the world, because they parked their troops in Saudi Arabia, because they killed so many civilians in Iraq, because they support Israeli settlement policy. He didn't like that, so he decided to fight fire with fire. Now, you can't explain the complexity of this world to common man in a few words. So he sold the cheap simple version to his followers "all you have to know is americans are your enemy, kill them all or they will eventualy kill you".
The same basic principle has been used by certain elements in the West to justify their invasions. Example "Saddam is an evil man. If we do not destroy him, he will destroy us". They didn't bother explaining the real reasons like money, oil, revenge, strategic positioning of troops in Israeli back yard, false intel from all sides, internal power struggles in White House, international fight for economic supremacy between USA, EU, China, etc, etc, etc.
That is actually a main part of neo-con ideology, normal people are not supposed to know the truth because they are too stupid. Truth is for the ruling elite who can handle it, serve the normal folk a simple lie.
I am sure that you know too that this world is a very complicated and complex place. Most of people who find their way to this site ar more or less aware of it.
Things like "muslims are out to kill christians", "muslims are evil, destroy them before they destroy us", "americans are all evil, kill them" are just simple motivational sentences from those who pull the strings.
The question is now, will you follow them, or will you try to find the real reasons behind world events?
You said I am ignorant to reality. Quite the contrary, I am very much aware of it.
War is not over when a president declares its end on prime time TV with military parade and a flag in background and some pathetic soundtrack.
Enemy like Al-Qaeda won't go away when you bomb one country into stone age, specialy if you bomb a country which has nothing to do with your initial war.
When you fight an ideology, not bound by borders, there is no use in displaying your military might by destroying one or two countries.
Ideologies thrive on certain mental concepts, chaos, on hate, on ignorance. All those things feed extremist idologies. And while military strikes are neccessary at times, a more complex "war" is essential for victory. Currently, nobody is fighting the real war we are supposed to fight. We are fighting a wrong battle, creating even more terrorists, death, ignorance, and playing directly into Bin Laden's hands.
Sadly.
Ok, I have ranted a bit off topic here, but I think that it is essential to look at all aspects of current world situation.
Any questions?
Let me make it real simple. If I asked you if you knew the name of latest car model from BMW, you
would have three possible choises (depending on your actual knowledge): 
