Supreme Court Says It's OK To Record Cops In Illinois

Supreme Court Says It's OK To Record Cops In Illinois

www.businessinsider.com

The U.S. Supreme Court issued an order Monday that essentially allows people in Illinois to record police officers, the Chicago Tribune reports.

The justices declined to review a lower court ruling that found the state's “anti-eavesdropping law” to be in violation of a person’s free speech rights when used against anyone who records police officers.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Well this is a good day.

By refusing to review the case, the high court leaves the ban on the law in place. The law set out a maximum prison term of 15 years.

Does this set a precendent for any other Supreme Court cases regarding taping of police officers or federal law enforcement that are about to show up?

It seems like the judicial system still has some sense left in it.

Thoughts ATS?

~Tenth

www.businessinsider.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Positive news and just because they're a cop, doesn't mean that they don't break the law

They are a public servant, out in the public, with no expectation of privacy, why not.
Might help keep more of the 'questionable' officer's on their toes and think twice before they blow their cool.

It always has been perfectly fine to record cops. The fact that anyone believes otherwise is testament to the power the gang in blue has.

Regardless of the ruling, or lack thereof, the police will continue to harass people and make the ludicrous claim that it is illegal costing the taxpayers time and money.

It's nice that the law on paper says what it says. The reality however is that on the street the police do, have and will continue to make arrests based on nothing more than them not liking something and the prosecutors will go on pushing for any charge they can, threatening innocent people into pleading out and never ever admitting they may have made a mistake.

The system is flawed in favor of the system.

Almost....

Next time.

Peace

reply to post by jude11


Not the same story.

That one is about the appeals court, this is about the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case.



~Tenth

I'd like to see something far more affirmative.

For instance, I think Congress should pass a federal law superseding state and local laws that affirms the rights to record ANY public officials in most circumstances - stopping just short of following them into their homes.

With some teeth. Like a mandatory five for attempting to confiscate or destroy recordings that sets aside any local or state level qualified immunity.

Exceptions for military and federal installations, of course.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by jude11

 

Not the same story.

That one is about the appeals court, this is about the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case.

~Tenth

Same story, different court... But I can see what you mean.

Let me enjoy a moment here...

Peace

reply to post by Bedlam


The Federal Government should not be legally allowed to make any laws ( other than those associated with comerce) that superceed state and local law.

They certainly can make a federal policy for all government agencies or something like that.

States rights is far more important than something like this, it's important that in our quest to make sure we are treated fairly by the law, that we don't end up giving more power to those who seek to control us.

~Tenth

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
It always has been perfectly fine to record cops. The fact that anyone believes otherwise is testament to the power the gang in blue has.

No sir, to audio tape an officer without his knowledge is not perfectly fine, there is case law in place long ago that established the law. In Florida state law dictates that.
That will change it seems now, fine with me.

Regardless of the ruling, or lack thereof, the police will continue to harass people and make the ludicrous claim that it is illegal costing the taxpayers time and money.

No sir, some police will still undoubtedly still screw up along the way, not 'the police'.
Some screw up because common sense and history proves it quite difficult to hire a perfectly pleasant infallible angle citizen with a charming personality to do the crap job that is expected of him for the crap pay.

It's nice that the law on paper says what it says. The reality however is that on the street the police do, have and will continue to make arrests based on nothing more than them not liking something and the prosecutors will go on pushing for any charge they can, threatening innocent people into pleading out and never ever admitting they may have made a mistake.
The system is flawed in favor of the system.

No sir, the reality is, 'on the street' ,most police go their entire career actually being a wonderful asset to their citizens and the community involvement. Most make it to retirement without a single complaint, a single shot fired, a single law suit or disciplinary action. Most, love people and actually hope to make a difference, right wrong, put the bad guy in jail, don't get shot or run over and go home to their kids. That's the reality.

Make an arrest without the elements necessary to establish the crime as outlined by the statute, and the officer gets sued for false arrest. Then, punished by Internal Affairs, and could lose his/her job depending on the offense.
Again, most officers, who love their work, their community, and love being able to take a paycheck home to their families do not want to do anything to jeopardize that.
There are those who DO screw up, that have a huge ego and power trip or temper. But not all sir, it's not as widespread as you may believe in your mind.
Maybe you are referring to an agency in particular that has a corruption issue that needs attention, I don't know, but it does happen no doubt, and I welcome any tool to keep them ALL in check.






.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Happens all the time. See also: Constitution. Also - Supremacy Clause.

It can be a bit muddy, but the Supreme Court can affirm the federal mandate for a particular law, and then it's au revoir for any state or local legislation.

reply to post by jude11


Not much of a Nazi Mod if I went ahead and let you do that now....

I get what your saying, but the appeals court isn't nearly as significant as the Supreme. Effectively these chaps are sayiing " No, it's not worth discussing, you can video tape cops, good bye."

That's a powerful statement by the highest court in the land.

~Tenth

Originally posted by Lonewulph

There are those who DO screw up, that have a huge ego and power trip. But not all sir, it's not as widespread as you may believe in your mind.
Maybe you are referring to an agency in particular that has a corruption issue that needs attention, I don't know, but it happens.

Okay, all is a bit harsh.

How about specific qualifiers? The entire New Haven, CT PD. The entire North Haven, CT PD. The entire New London, CT PD. The entire Hartford, CT PD. The entire New Britain, CT PD. The CT State police.

All of which have been dismantled entirely and completely restructured due to rampant abuse only to be dismantled and restructured a few years later for the same abuses.

CT went so far as to enact a law holding the officers involved in these recording incidents personally liable for any lawsuit resulting from such an arrest because towns were getting tired of paying out of the taxpayers pocket for the settlements and even that measure hasnt stopped the abuses.

So maybe out there in Mayberry where Andy Griffith isnt raging on steroids or sucking in untold amounts of federal terror dollars to buy assault weapons, body armor and armored vehicles cops are still looking out for the little guy and just trying to earn a wage. But not in CT. Not in CA. Not in OR. Not in NY. Not in MA.

Even where I am now, about 5 miles outside of Mayberry, the corruption and abuses arent rampant but they're growing. The cops I shoot with and compete with tell me stories that sound just like the stories I heard before all these other departments fell into complete corrupt disarray.

If you arent living with sadists in black around every corner now you will be soon unless there is a fundamental shift in Americas attitude toward the law and the enforcement of said law.

Im in Illinois, near Chicago, and let me tell you the majority of the politicians and cops here are still as crooked as ever. Im working on moving out of this state to somewhere that is much better as far as corruption and lower taxes.

Cops here are one of the worst

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Yes I see it getting worse everywhere before I see it getting any better. Such a sad shame.

It all starts with the hiring process, but it's harder now than ever to hire those who would be wise, mature, experienced, fair and honest officers for other people to shoot at. No body wants any part of it, all the bad guys have guns, too many gangs, and cops could go 19 years without a hiccup and a chest full of commendations, but one screw up, one mistake, and the media will slant the public, typical cop! They will shout.. he'll be sued, fired, and he is done, no matter how many solid arrests he's made, no matter how many lives he's saved, or marriages he's patched up, or lost kids he found, or thugs he could have shot but didn't... no body will have his back.

I ask you,
Who wants to sign up for that? Where's the incentive to attract great police officers?
It's a losing battle and sadly you are probably mostly painting a fairly accurate picture of the future...hopefully not.
But I'm just happy to have retired without extra holes in my body my friend, and away from that hating, lump us all in together, public.

Any one wants to sign up for that? They can have that crap. Little advice, everybody already doesn't like you, and you haven't even been through the academy yet, much less 'on the streets' ..good luck with your big dreams of fighting crime and making the world a better place, because the reality is.... you're on your own.

Bottom line is, and I support this, at least two cameras in every patrol car, live feed back to HQ. Citizens should record police in action as much as possible, it keeps the good guys clean, the bad cops pulled onto the carpet, and suspects arrested, and citizens from lying on you.
It's inevitable, we've got to keep the police policed going forward.

Originally posted by Lonewulph


Bottom line is, and I support this, at least two cameras in every patrol car, live feed back to HQ. Citizens should record police in action as much as possible, it keeps the good guys clean, the bad cops pulled onto the carpet, and suspects arrested, and citizens from lying on you.
It's inevitable, we've got to keep the police policed going forward.

edit on 27-11-2012 by Lonewulph because: (no reason given)

I can agree with that. And I'd like to add.... as a CIT trainer for LEO's, a much more comprehensive psychological profile needs to be inacted across the board for all recruits and rookies. Also psychological and legal reevaluation for all officers every year. Power corrupts. The Blue Code must end!

www.tandfonline.com...

Originally posted by olaru12

Originally posted by Lonewulph


Bottom line is, and I support this, at least two cameras in every patrol car, live feed back to HQ. Citizens should record police in action as much as possible, it keeps the good guys clean, the bad cops pulled onto the carpet, and suspects arrested, and citizens from lying on you.
It's inevitable, we've got to keep the police policed going forward.

edit on 27-11-2012 by Lonewulph because: (no reason given)

I can agree with that. And as a CIT trainer for LEO's a much more comprehensive psychological profile needs to be inacted across the board for all recruits and rookies. Also psychological and legal reevaluation for all officers every year. Power corrupts. The Blue Code must end!

www.tandfonline.com...

edit on 27-11-2012 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)

I agree the 'blue code must end'. But I hope you realize this 'code' does not exist everywhere..especially in newer agencies, by newer, I mean not as old and widespread as NY, Chicago, LA, and so on. Its my observation, that largely at the fault of Hollywood, and msm, the general perception is that ALL of law enforcement operate under a common , at some levels, even corrupt, code.
Most career law enforcement officers laugh at those idiots in those 'other' cities, and choose to hold a position of which they seek assisted higher education, elevating their career status and pay, to actually be of service to their community, and mostly, maintain a secure job to provide for their family. They would never participate in anything that could jeopardize their income and family, there is outright shock among them when they hear of such stories among those other agencies.

Contemporary agencies of today actually use those 'other' agency's and their mistakes, as a learning tool of what not to become by breaking down the elements, of how it was created , to understandable bite sized pieces, and create a fundamental basis from those to form new policy.

For example, in this city's major agency here, one thing that will get you fired quicker, even than a DUI, is lying in an investigation. You are gone. This helps keep a tidier ship....along with the fact, that there is a benefit to be garnered, if you turn in a fellow officer for lying or violating any policy! The public is totally clueless to the steps that agencies are taking now to clean up the ranks.
Having said all that, I still agree with any measure that you've described to keep our law enforcement in check, it has nothing else but to benefit us all.

With that I would add real time GPS tracking to police vehicles. My feeling is the more the police actions and movements are recorded, the more the public will finally see that most cops operate with good intention, while exercising street survival in the fog of the unknown.

Unfortunately, the media shows up every day and picks through the public record, they pick out the few 'screw ups' and put those up on the air as 'shocking' news to sensationalize the pliable public who take the bait and the feeding frenzy is on! It truly is sad because you think,... Oh man they didn't show that residential burglar I caught today who damn near killed me...bummer.
The sudden lack of stars and flags here among these revelations have disappeared if you notice, no one is interested in the boring, soft white underbelly of honest cops and what is really happening inside, it's more fun to engage in the controversy of someone in an authoritative position who screwed up or abused power... Msm learned that long ago.
You're a CIT trainer? Sworn or citizen? What region if I may ask

reply to post by Lonewulph


Agree - the recording will end up helping all cops and citizens all the way around. It will help the good cops, help weed out the bad ones and will generally help the populace feel better about the whole affair.

Also, agree the vast majority of cops (at least the ones I've met and worked with) have been good guys and gals. Though, I'll admit to meeting a few that were among the worst excuses for human beings I've ever met. The old adage about a bad apple making people think the barrel is spoiled comes into play.

Question for you.

I've always thought that sometimes the arm of the cops that issues media statements doesn't do cops alot of favors. What I mean is when Granny gets tazered, Fido gets shot or little Johnny gets cuffed at the lemonade stand. Often there is public outcry and often the statement is basically, "After review we find that the officer acted in accordance to policy.." It makes it sound like its the policy rather than the exception to zap Granny, shoot Fido and cuff little Johnny when we all know that isn't the case. I've often wondered if public perception would be better if the statement was worded with something like... "We are obviously very sorry that this unfortunate incident occurred and our officers are taught to exercise great restraint with any use of force. However, when Granny pulled the AK-47 our officer had no choice..."

Sometimes they way ya say things can make a difference I think. What do ya think?

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by jude11

 

Not much of a Nazi Mod if I went ahead and let you do that now....

I get what your saying, but the appeals court isn't nearly as significant as the Supreme. Effectively these chaps are sayiing " No, it's not worth discussing, you can video tape cops, good bye."

That's a powerful statement by the highest court in the land.

~Tenth

I dunno.. The Supreme court can overturn / interrupt federal law or or laws in the state where federal laws already exist. It is my understanding, where no federal laws exist, the States can make any law they wish. Could this not be the case.. it's an Illinois state thing and the Supreme court is saying, " I'm not getting involved with this - not our job description because there is no federal law in place for this"