Different views on the Tribulation

If I walked into ATS, I would be confused by all the Tribulation threads so let me give you the basics. While a number of Biblical teachings discuss tribulation(trouble), only some of which are prophetic. In a desire to unlock prophecies, a variety of opinions have arose to what they might mean. While not all Biblical discussions of Tribulation are 7 years, a common thread you will hear on ATS is 7 years...so we will start there

Your garden variety 7 yr trib person is a 'pre tribber'
This person believe Jesus will return to Earth and take the Church PRIOR to 7 years of 'tribulation' on Earth. The taking away is known as the 'Rapture'

'mid tribber'
Similar to the 'pre tribber' but the Church stays around for the first 3.5 yrs

'post tribber'
This person believes the Church will remain for the entire 7 years of tribulation. While their expectations are similar to the 2 above categories, the main difference is that they remain

All 3 of these belong to a group called PRE MILLENNIALISM, as all 3 expect Christ to return before a 1000 yr earthly rule. The rule ends with a rebellion then a new earth

-------------------

While that is what many in the USA believe, only a small minority of Christians worldwide accept this. The most common belief is, AMILLENNIALISM. Without going into variation, basically the Church waits for Christ to establish his heavenly kingdom with all Saints on a new earth


-----------
Another view growing in popularity is POSTMILLENNIALISM. Once again, not going into variations, this is a view that the Church must dominate the earth and make the earth acceptable for Jesus to return

--------------
Finally the minority view is PRETERISM. This is a belief that all the prophecies have already been fulfilled



I feel qualified to answer questions about Biblical Eschatology, so please ask away

Originally posted by GeneralMishka
I feel qualified to answer questions about Biblical Eschatology, so please ask away

Have you ever wondered about the false Tribulation where aliens remove their bloodline first and then blast this world back to the stoneage with every scalar weapon they have ?

This will be done via project Bluebeam and alien abduction.

reply to post by GeneralMishka

the coming of god's kingdom, is it god's will ? if it is, it will be, because god is almighty and decides it will be. or do other forms of existence (humans, souls, ...) beg for the kingdom to come ?

Originally posted by icepack
reply to post by GeneralMishka

 

the coming of god's kingdom, is it god's will ? if it is, it will be, because god is almighty and decides it will be. or do other forms of existence (humans, souls, ...) beg for the kingdom to come ?

The Church has two extreme views on this.
1) 'calvinism'- The idea everything is predetermined, even whether one become Christian
2) 'arminianism'- the idea that human free will plays a significant role

Those are the extremes, most Christians might consider themselves in one group orthe other, but in most cases its a blend of the two

True followers of our Messiah's teachings will not subscribe to end days as proclaimed by man.

No one knows the end days, as taught in the holy scriptures. It could come on 21st Dec 2012, or year 1,000,011 AD, or....even the next second.

Stick to the teaching of our Messiah. The end will come like a thief in the night.

No man will know the hour. Some will will still be planning the weekend party. Some will still be scheduling the next medical appointment. Some whom are fearful, will attemt to hoard up survival kits. Many will just go on with life.

But the end will come in suddenly. All we can hope for is for Divine mercy that it will be instaneous and quick, so that none will lingeringly suffer.

However, no one knows when the end will come except our common Creator, who loved us all, which means we DO have the time to fulfill His plan for us to grow and evolve, every single minute and every day. The portends of doom may seem frightening, but it does not mean we should give up now.

What have we to lose anyway? If the end comes, it comes. But if not, we still have the chance to make this world a better place for all and future generations, following HIs moral and ethical guidelines to progress and evolve, instead of giving up now and second guessing Him that the end is very near.

"Rapture" won't be coming from a 'God'.

Germany's Max Planck Society along with China now have the most powerful microscopes on Earth and have been studying why the 10,000 atoms in a cell are working together. They're going to weaponize it and dis-assemble anyone they don't want on Earth anymore.

It'll look like a biblical "rapture", but it will only be men behind keyboards using scalar weapons to break people down at the atomic level.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


"What have we to lose anyway? If the end comes, it comes. But if not, we still have the chance to make this world a better place for all and future generations, following HIs moral and ethical guidelines to progress and evolve, instead of giving up now and second guessing Him that the end is very near. "

Totally agree here with SeekerofTruth.

I do see how most of the world's problems would be solved if everyone followed basic moral guidelines. Unfortunately I can plainly see the widespread decline in ethical behavior and the loss of moral "high ground" all around me. Humanity had reached a certain level of morality that is now in worldwide decline.

Faith has a lot to do with it, but moral relativism won't cut it. There must be an absolute moral code that applies to all of humanity or people will rationalize and make excuses for their behavior.

In a nutshell here is the proper sequence of events, all biblically based:

1. The temple is rebuilt
2. The antichrist anounces himself as God in the temple (The abomination that causes desolation)
3. Massive persecution breaks out against the christians
4. The persecution will be strongest inside Mystery Babylon (Jerusalem), Jesus has warned his people to come out of her.
5. Signs in the heavens precede the return of Christ (Sun darkened, Moon turns blood red)
6. The persecution of christians will be ended when they are caught away/ gathered/ raptured/ evacuated by Jesus. This ends the wrath of Satan against God's children
7. The wrath of God begins against all of the wicked not found in the book of life
8. Millenial reign with Christ begins after Satan is bound for 1000 years
9. Satan is released after 1000 years so he can deceive the nations one last time for the battle of Armageddon
10. Satan is thrown into the lake of fire

Originally posted by ConspiracyNutjob


In a nutshell here is the proper sequence of events, all biblically based:

1. The temple is rebuilt
2. The antichrist anounces himself as God in the temple (The abomination that causes desolation)
3. Massive persecution breaks out against the christians
4. The persecution will be strongest inside Mystery Babylon (Jerusalem), Jesus has warned his people to come out of her.
5. Signs in the heavens precede the return of Christ (Sun darkened, Moon turns blood red)
6. The persecution of christians will be ended when they are caught away/ gathered/ raptured/ evacuated by Jesus. This ends the wrath of Satan against God's children
7. The wrath of God begins against all of the wicked not found in the book of life
8. Millenial reign with Christ begins after Satan is bound for 1000 years
9. Satan is released after 1000 years so he can deceive the nations one last time for the battle of Armageddon
10. Satan is thrown into the lake of fire

Most Christians today believe the Temple is already rebuilt, it exists as the Church. The Church with Christ as the cornerstone and the apostles as the foundation fulfills OT prophecy

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
... John 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.


1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Originally posted by GeneralMishka

Originally posted by ConspiracyNutjob


In a nutshell here is the proper sequence of events, all biblically based:

1. The temple is rebuilt
2. The antichrist anounces himself as God in the temple (The abomination that causes desolation)
3. Massive persecution breaks out against the christians
4. The persecution will be strongest inside Mystery Babylon (Jerusalem), Jesus has warned his people to come out of her.
5. Signs in the heavens precede the return of Christ (Sun darkened, Moon turns blood red)
6. The persecution of christians will be ended when they are caught away/ gathered/ raptured/ evacuated by Jesus. This ends the wrath of Satan against God's children
7. The wrath of God begins against all of the wicked not found in the book of life
8. Millenial reign with Christ begins after Satan is bound for 1000 years
9. Satan is released after 1000 years so he can deceive the nations one last time for the battle of Armageddon
10. Satan is thrown into the lake of fire

Most Christians today believe the Temple is already rebuilt, it exists as the Church. The Church with Christ as the cornerstone and the apostles as the foundation fulfills OT prophecy

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
... John 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.


1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

The new temple is not built by christians. I am a christian and I recognise that God does not reside in any temple built by human hands.

The Jews are still waiting for their messiah, that is why they will rebuild the temple.

Unfortunately the 'messiah' that they accept will be the antichrist. He will teach that Jesus was not the son of God and he will proclaim himself to be God in the new temple. This is the abomination that causes desolation as written by the prophet Daniel and reinforced by Jesus Christ.

Babylon still has 10 years to reign (Will try to find that Bible verse.)

And if you put that with that one of the seven churches the dead one-Sardis will have to go through TEN years-the Great Tribulation is actually TEN years.
The reason I said Great Tribulation is that the Tribulation started the moment Jesus died.

If you knew that Star code in Revelation, you would know that the first Seal was opened on 20 January 2009.
Meaning we are in the Great Tribulation of TEN years.

The last seven years will commence with a Treaty of Peace (false peace).

Pervius wrote

"Rapture" won't be coming from a 'God'. Germany's Max Planck Society along with China now have the most powerful microscopes on Earth and have been studying why the 10,000 atoms in a cell are working together. They're going to weaponize it and dis-assemble anyone they don't want on Earth anymore. It'll look like a biblical "rapture", but it will only be men behind keyboards using scalar weapons to break people down at the atomic level.

They tried that already on a Global scale but God reset time and now here we are. It was known as the Mayan 'Time of No time' 1987-2012. They can not reuse that method, as Time/space calculations can not be worked out, due to the Earth axis having been moved, thereby literally shortening the day.

Also in Nimrod's reign there was a cosmic war and time had to be reset that time too. (JP Farrell's book; Cosmic War.)
Sagittarius A black hole was used in both resets, via a flare. The last one was in February 2012 which was picked by Chandra Xray telescope.

Individual deatomiser gun I don't know about that. Hopefully there will be a solution for defence.



There will be also more than one Rescue/Rapture/Graduation.
First one is a secret one 'like a thief in the night' for the Bride.
Sun is sackcloth (ie. it is shining through something, not being occulted) and Moon is red.

Second rescue will be in full daylight where the slaves of TPTB are taken underground. Where two are working in the field and one is taken. This one will get a lot of eyewitnesses.

The third rescue is after the Two witnesses die, and they and others meet Jesus in the sky (maybe even float into the sky).
Sun and Moon do not give their light. (This also ceases the covenant between the descendants of David and God, where he promised a descendant of David will always on a throne; till the Sun and Moon stop giving their light.)

Well that is what I have learnt, which is way outside of the traditional fundi view, as bits of the puzzle have been overlooked, whether accidental or not, I don't know.

Oh yeah the Antichrist is actually the LAST Antichrist, so this means that there have been many others. I believe this person will be a type of Messiah, even the physical king of Israel and on the outside, his misssion will look like peace and safety BUT at a cost=your soul and freewill.

IMHO

reply to post by AriesJedi


Thank you for sharing that. I believe the verse you are considering is

Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

While Im in the Amill crowd, I would share that belief, but I think you might find this interesting:

Adam Clarke on this verse
Verse 10. "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer" - This may be addressed particularly to Polycarp, if he was at that time the bishop of this Church. He had much to suffer; and was at last burnt alive at Smyrna, about the year of our Lord 166. We have a very ancient account of his martyrdom, which has been translated by Cave, and is worthy of the reader's perusal. That account states that the Jews were particularly active in this martyrdom, and brought the fagots, &c., by which he was consumed. Such persons must indeed have been of the synagogue of Satan.

"Ten days" - As the days in this book are what is commonly called prophetic days, each answering to a year, the ten years of tribulation may denote ten years of persecution; and this was precisely the duration of the persecution under Diocletian, during which all the Asiatic Churches were grievously afflicted. Others understand the expression as implying frequency and abundance, as it does in other parts of Scripture. Gen. xxxi. 7, xl1: Thou hast changed my wages TEN TIMES; i.e. thou hast frequently changed my wages Num. xiv. 22: Those men have tempted me now these TEN TIMES; i.e. they have frequently and grievously tempted and sinned against me. Neh. iv. 12: The Jews that dwelt by them came and said unto us TEN TIMES, i.e. they were frequently coming and informing us, that our adversaries intended to attack us, Job xix. 3; These TEN TIMES have ye reproached me; i.e. ye have loaded me with continual reproaches. Dan. i. 20: In all matters of wisdom, he found them TEN TIMES better than all the magicians; i.e. the king frequently consulted Daniel and his companions, and found them more abundantly informed and wise than all his counsellors.

"Some think the shortness of the affliction is here intended, and that the ten days are to be understood as in Terence, Heaut., Act v., scen. 1, ver. 36, Decem dierum vis mi est familia. "I have enjoyed my family but a short time." Be thou faithful unto death" - Be firm, hold fast the faith, confess Christ to the last, and at all hazards, and thou shalt have a crown of life - thou shalt be crowned with life, have an eternal happy existence, though thou suffer a temporal death. It is said of Polycarp that when brought before the judge, and commanded to abjure and blaspheme Christ, he firmly answered, "Eighty and six years have I served him, and he never did me wrong, how then can I blaspheme my king who hath saved me?" He was then adjudged to the flames, and suffered cheerfully for Christ his Lord and Master

reply to post by GeneralMishka


The 2 Witnesses-- 2 actual individuals, or 2 symbolic representations?

The Mark-- purely spiritual and internal, or visible and physical?

Revelation 8:8-- literal or symbolic?

What role, if any, in Tribulation events would you ascribe to the following:

Islam/Caliphate
some sort of extraterrestrial disclosure
Catholic Church
Papacy

The opening of the Abyss-- located somewhere on Earth and an event witnessed by humanity, or something of the spiritual world not perceived by mankind?

Revelation 9:6-- what is being implied?

The Seven Thunders- what were they and will they be revealed? If not, then why were they mentioned?

reply to post by Rapha

Can you elaborate on this or provide a link to the info? I'm intrigued.

Nothing new under the sun. All your tech are belong to us.

One question which is a patchwork of misquoted misplaced pieces but relevant still the same: If the ol devil said he would show the despicable nature of man and then that man turned into the big J was that not the negation of the devil? Was he not proven wrong?

Is the saviour simply a line through space and time which pops up when necessary to kick a little arse and remind everyone of where they are?

Michael Michael Cycle Cycle.

It's hermetically sealed right?

reply to post by PrplHrt

 

Can you elaborate on this or provide a link to the info? I'm intrigued.

Its based on a personal vision of the coming false paradise.

Its also linked to the speculated 10 years before the old Israel is destroyed as stated recently by Henry Kissenger.

Note: if the false Rapture occurs then this will last for 3 1/2 years. Adding on the real 7 Year Tribulation equals 10 1/2 years which Kissenger spoke of.

As its a false Rapture, it makes sense that the aliens will remove their bastard children, the nephilim, beforehand and then create the 7 Year Tribulation using their scalar weaponry.

reply to post by Rapha

Do you have any links where I might read more?

reply to post by usernamehere

Maybe it's just a line of code.

Originally posted by stupid girl
reply to post by GeneralMishka

 

The 2 Witnesses-- 2 actual individuals, or 2 symbolic representations?

The Mark-- purely spiritual and internal, or visible and physical?

Revelation 8:8-- literal or symbolic?

What role, if any, in Tribulation events would you ascribe to the following:

Islam/Caliphate
some sort of extraterrestrial disclosure
Catholic Church
Papacy

The opening of the Abyss-- located somewhere on Earth and an event witnessed by humanity, or something of the spiritual world not perceived by mankind?

Revelation 9:6-- what is being implied?

The Seven Thunders- what were they and will they be revealed? If not, then why were they mentioned?

edit on 29-11-2012 by stupid girl because: (no reason given)

All good questions, and the answers will vary depending on your eschatological outlook. The pre trib crowd will tend to have more literal interpretations, while the AMIL crowd would be more metaphoric. Historic PreMil & PostMIL will be mixed, with Preterists say even all of Revelation is already fulfilled.

Since Im in the AMIL crowd & consider Revelation part of Scripture that must agree with other Scripture, I would see this as metaphors. Since Adam, all men have been assigned a death sentence. In Christ we are saved, thus the plagues of Revelation describe those who do not come to faith. example(Poisoned waters- would be heresies like Mormonism JWs Islam drawing people from the truth )

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.