Schrodinger's Cat Solved

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posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 05:56 AM
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i have a thought experiment.

you get one moron and put him in a room with two levers, one lever is marked pizza and the other lever is pop.

he can only choose one, but choosing one makes the other not work.

and you close the door.

to the observer the moron is in a state of superposition pulling the pizza lever and the pop lever at the same time making the machine quantumly inoperable.

but yet, you open the door and the moron is either enjoying a pizza without pop or a pop without pizza.

edit: the moron is a physicist, because he believes a cat can be alive and dead at the same time.

edit on 27-11-2012 by randomname because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 06:02 AM
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Still confused. I get that the atom has two options. It will or it won't. But is it more likely to or not to if other variables are taken into consideration?

I never should have started on this thread ... no doubt I'll be stuck trying to make sense of it for too long before giving up in frustration
edit on 27-11-2012 by anonodox because: Can/Can't Will/Won't



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 06:02 AM
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Again, you have to accept that the human observer measures the state where the single atom didn't decay.

The box, the universe and the human observer are in a mixed state until a measurement occurs and there's red paint in the blue box from single atom decay or the human observer opens the box and finds a blue box without red paint.

In the delayed choice and quantum eraser experiment, the photon at detector D0 remains in a state of superposition until it's entangled pair is detected.

So even the detector doesn't measure the quantum state.

This has nothing to do with any new age.

Science shows us that entanglement is not bound by classical space-time.

We saw this in a recent quantum eraser experiment where they used an entangled particle. So the radioactive decay in the box will remain in a state of superposition on a quantum level and a mixed state on a classical level until the Observer opens the box or there's single atom decay.

This is just what current experiments show.

The wave function on a quantum level stays in superposition and on a classical level in a mixed state until a measurement occurs.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 06:05 AM
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reply to post by anonodox
 


I started it for a reason, eventually it will click to some.

This is just the way it has to be.

A mixed state or quantum superposition of red paint/no red pain has to exist until:

A. Single Atom Decay occurs.

B. the observer opens the box and there's no red paint.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 06:05 AM
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reply to post by Mads1987
 


Yes, but we don't know the cat is dead until we open the box. As far as adherents of the Copenhagen Interpretation are concerned, quantum states refer to our knowledge of objects gained by observation, not to unchanging, intrinsic properties that they may have (the subject of classival physics). It is important not to confuse knowledge that is inferred by logic (the cat will die as soon as the atom decays) and purely empirical knowledge gained by observation (the atom must have decayed because I see the cat is dead). It is the latter that the Cat Paradox is about.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 06:06 AM
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reply to post by neoholographic
 


We know this from John 1. Word is information.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

Hebrews 11

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

Genesis 1

Genesis 1:1
In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

Genesis 27 - IT IS AN IMAGE

1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

Go back to the opening verses from John 1. Jesus is the Word / Wave / LOGOS. The Son is the first image.

1 Colossians 1:
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Look in a mirror and you see an image. You are aware that there is a difference between you and the image. If we are INSIDE the image, then you are not here. You are the one casting the image.

1 Corinthians 13

12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Further, the Child of God is the one in the image. Where is the child?

Matthew 18

10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

The wave of particle and wave is the Son of God and the second in the Trinity. Your body is particle and wave (Matter) and you have consciousness. That's Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Hope that helps.



edit on 27-11-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 06:06 AM
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Everything I'm saying is verified by the delayed choice and quantum eraser experiments, entanglement and classical objects being put into mixed states.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 06:08 AM
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It's always been clear that Schrodinger didn't understand cats.....

He forgot the possibility of the cat playing with the vial and breaking it whether radiation is introduced or not. His percentages were never 50 percent due to the curiosity and desire of the cat to play with the vial



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 06:09 AM
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reply to post by neoholographic
 


What if the atoms that decay are instantly are replaced?

Why cant we have this magic quantum state regenerate a structure because it likes it. What if instead of decaying they multiply? How quantum crazy are we going to get?

Why couldnt we open the box and instead of one cat... we have two?
edit on 27-11-2012 by Wertdagf because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 06:09 AM
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Again, if single atom decay doesn't occur then the radioactive source remains in a state of superposition until detection occurs when the human observer opens the box.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 06:12 AM
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You have to explain how which state information is known when single atom decay doesn't occur.

Again, experiments show, that a wave of probabilities exist until detection occurs and the event is measured.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 06:16 AM
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Originally posted by randomname
i have a thought experiment.

you get one moron and put him in a room with two levers, one lever is marked pizza and the other lever is pop.

he can only choose one, but choosing one makes the other not work.

and you close the door.

to the observer the moron is in a state of superposition pulling the pizza lever and the pop lever at the same time making the machine quantumly inoperable.

but yet, you open the door and the moron is either enjoying a pizza without pop or a pop without pizza.

edit: the moron is a physicist, because he believes a cat can be alive and dead at the same time.

edit on 27-11-2012 by randomname because: (no reason given)


You don't understand it so that makes people considering the possibilty a moron?



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 06:18 AM
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reply to post by neoholographic
 


sorry dude but radioactive atoms decay regardless your measurement and they sure are not in any superposition



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 06:22 AM
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Originally posted by neoholographic
Again, if single atom decay doesn't occur then the radioactive source remains in a state of superposition until detection occurs when the human observer opens the box.

The silliness of the Measurement Problem exposed by Schrodinger is that we are sure that the cat is really either dead or alive whether we open the box or not and that it cannot be in both states simultaneously. However, we are not sure experimentally until we make the actual observation. This surely proves that cats are NOT quantum states and the analogy is totally misconceived. At some level of complexity, an object ceases to be subject to the Superposition Principle and becomes subject to classical physics. However, no one has ever found the boundary separating the classical domain from the quantum domain. The Many-Worlds view of quantum mechanics claims that no collapse takes place - the universe simply branches into two universes that never share their information about the different outcomes - one where the cat is still alive and one in which it is now dead. But this is no solution because it replaces science by science fiction.
edit on 27-11-2012 by micpsi because: typo edited
edit on 27-11-2012 by micpsi because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 06:22 AM
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reply to post by KrzYma
 


Wrong.

It's in a superposition of red paint/no red paint until a measurement occurs.

This is exactly what the delayed choice experiment showed.

If you delayed single atom decay for a year, it would remain in superposition until the human observer opened the box.

Hence the name delayed choice and quantum eraser delayed choice experiments.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 06:26 AM
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Originally posted by KrzYma
reply to post by neoholographic
 


sorry dude but radioactive atoms decay regardless your measurement and they sure are not in any superposition

According to quantum mechanics' Supposition Principle, their quantum states ARE a supposition of undecayed and decayed states until the act of observation takes place. You are failing to distinguish between the possibility of decay and the actuality, which is what quantum mechanics considers.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 06:28 AM
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reply to post by micpsi
 


I never said superposition, I said mixed state.

Here's an interesting discussion on the difference between a mixed state and quantum superposition.

www.physicsforums.com...



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 06:30 AM
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Originally posted by micpsi

Originally posted by KrzYma
reply to post by neoholographic
 


sorry dude but radioactive atoms decay regardless your measurement and they sure are not in any superposition

According to quantum mechanics' Supposition Principle, their quantum states ARE a supposition of undecayed and decayed states until the act of observation takes place. You are failing to distinguish between the possibility of decay and the actuality, which is what quantum mechanics considers.


Exactly.

And experiments show that detection must occur or it remains in a state of superposition on a quantum level and a mixed state on a classical level.

The fact is, you can't just ignore the state of no single atom decay because quantum mechanics doesn't.



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 06:32 AM
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reply to post by neoholographic
 


NO, it is in a state you don't know until you look inside. this state is NOT both!
you just call it a superposition because you don't know, leak of knowledge doesn't make it being both at the same time !!!



posted on Nov, 27 2012 @ 06:37 AM
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BTW.. double slit measurements collapses the wave as you interact with it, in the paint/cat box experiment you don't!!! you just see what goes out of it and this is no interaction but observation.






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