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The greatest horror - transdimensional alien ecology.

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posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 06:52 PM
reply to post by mcrom901


12 whole results the world would have been fine and gotten along swimingly without including letterhead and two bits on furniture.

Absolutely ground-breaking.

I don't see any paradigm shifting revelations in your link, nor anything that couldn't have been achieved by anyone with relevant training and education without drug use.

Further, the way some of the items are listed gives no indication that they were actually employed, and if so, to what extent.

My 9 year old niece could design "space probe experiments devised to measure solar properties", but as to their validity, extent of usefulness, and actual employment, I suspect at best the designs might get hung on some NASA engineer's office wall as a cute token nod to future generations of engineers.
Additionally, my 5 year old nephew could work out a "design of a linear electron accelerator beam-steering device" using macaroni, pretzels, peanut butter, pine cones, glitter and glue.
No one would know what it was, and it certainly wouldn't actually do anything except serve as serviceable kindling were it used in a fire, but, if you wanted, you could certainly call it a design of a linear electron accelerator beam-steering device.
I suspect the same may be applicable to the one mentioned in your link.

Suffice to say, your link seems grasping at desperation.

posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 07:15 PM
Look -- we can debate all we want about whether or no hallucinogenic drugs boost creativity or not. To be clear, though, I'm not condoning the recreational use of drugs, but I personally think drugs can increase creativity but opening the mind -- sort of like when someone brainstorms ideas, or has great ideas come to them in a dream. I personally have some of my best ideas (such as find solutions to issue that arise in my work) when I'm at that in-between state of being awake and being asleep.

...HOWEVER, that's beyond the point here. The OP's assertion was that Shamans -- through the use of meditation and medication (i.e., psychedelic drugs) -- are able to access other dimensions and astral planes.

Well, that just ain't happening, as far as I can tell. Those shamans may be really tripping, and maybe exploring deeply buried and primitive parts of their brains, but they're not finding doors to other dimensions. Whatever they find is completely in their own heads, and is not part of the world outside their heads.

So, at least in that respect, I think whatever those shamans are discovering is basically just in their imaginations and is not real.

edit on 11/28/2012 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 08:01 PM

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by ProperlyErrant

You neglect to factor in observation from multiple independent sources that can verify replication or failure of replication. Further, any sufficient observations in a properly designed study would be monitored using various sensing equipment apparatus of differing sensitivities with redundancies and tertiary fail overs for full spectra coverage of any observable event across the entire range of known observable spectrum.

Make fun all you will, but, now you're just trying to play Calvin Ball:

I'm fairly certain if it could do it to one source, it could do it to many sources, simultaneously even.


I like Calvin and Hobbes.

PS: Can you build me a lightsaber?
edit on 28-11-2012 by ProperlyErrant because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 08:08 PM

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
Look -- we can debate all we want about whether or no hallucinogenic drugs boost creativity or not. To be clear, though, I'm not condoning the recreational use of drugs, but I personally think drugs can increase creativity but opening the mind -- sort of like when someone brainstorms ideas, or has great ideas come to them in a dream. I personally have some of my best ideas (such as find solutions to issue that arise in my work) when I'm at that in-between state of being awake and being asleep.

...HOWEVER, that's beyond the point here. The OP's assertion was that Shamans -- through the use of meditation and medication (i.e., psychedelic drugs) -- are able to access other dimensions and astral planes.

Well, that just ain't happening, as far as I can tell. Those shamans may be really tripping, and maybe exploring deeply buried and primitive parts of their brains, but they're not finding doors to other dimensions. Whatever they find is completely in their own heads, and is not part of the world outside their heads.

So, at least in that respect, I think whatever those shamans are discovering is basically just in their imaginations and is not real.

edit on 11/28/2012 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)

Hallucinogenic drugs boost creativity?


As to it being just in their heads...heh.

I know enough by now to know about the art of ladies and gentlemen:


Making things in your head, outside of your head, and vice versa, since 19forever.

posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 08:57 PM
first it was an octopus, now it's drugs. It must be sad to spend so much time beating a dead horse like this. You just can't let a day go by without trying to upset a contactee.

You've got beings who've resorted to this type of communication as a last resort.

Maybe you choose to not believe that because it simply hasn't happened to you, but let me point two things out to you.

A) it's very possible... scientifically possible.

B)Just because it's not happening to you doesn't mean it's not happening.

If this escapes you, your deduction skills aren't really aything to take note of.

Simply put, it *could be* happening. There are many claims of that but they all seem to not have the luxury of black and white proof. That makes this the ultimate test of desire for truth in the heart.

The real question that you should be asking yourself is if it does in fact turn out to be true that tptb have attempted to prevent ET contact and intervention that results in this being a matter of life or death for them... then how can you live with yourself knowing that there are voices that are calling out to us and are falling on deaf ears in many cases.

How could you live with yourself even knowing that could be a remote possibility?

These things could be distress calls that have been ignored and filtered by our government and they could be in a dire situation just outside the comforts of society... and you just pretend this means nothing. All these people making these claims of contacts and you think you as an individual have the power and the right to dismiss it even if this were a test from God himself as to whether humans have the right to progress as they are... selfish and discriminating.

Well I have a news flash, not everyone is like that.

Not everyone is going to waltz into a thread they have no personal experience with and dismiss other life forms possibly trying to contact inhabitants of earth... because most people are more careful.

Yeah, more careful... like as in "what if this is like *the most dick move* any human could ever pull... to facilitate and aid the ignoring of possible life forms trying to contact us"

I mean you must not be Muslim, christian or even Buddhist because not only do you not even bat an eye at the thought that this could effect the righteousness of your own soul, you don't even think it might effect your karma.

It makes me wonder if you even value your own life or spirituality since you obviously value no one else's.

I mean really... WHAT IF...

WHAT IF... there were better ways to spend your time. well, there are, but you chose this.

Have fun with it.

Have fun with your hopeless and never ending battle to convince us that there is no contact and there is no desire or need for contact and don't forget to pray to the god you don't believe in that we will all forget... for WHATEVER REASON DRIVES YOU THESE THREADS ON THIS SUBJECT THAT YOU ARE SO OBSESSED WITH.

I'd just think it would be interesting to understand the motivation behind it. That's my only curiosity in this.

What really motivates people to delude themselves into thinking their mere words are going to convince people.
What motivates them to come onto this forum on a daily basis trying to convince people that none of it is real.
What causes them to think they come off as even slightly credible in their 5 minute opinion of things they know nothing about when you've got contactees who would agree to polygraphs if it weren't that most investigators are shills or just it for the money and not interested in separating the contactees from the fakes.

No, forget establishing truth... just keep discussing opinions on experiences you don't have and keep thinking it's actually going to amount to a hill of beans. Yeah, that'll work.

It's hilarious that people think no one is noticing.

Keep wishing it will all go away.

Like I'm just going to say OH GEE...IS THAT WHAT THIS IS?

No people...nice try but some of us are aware of the science behind these experiences and it's just a matter of time before we get our hands on our own equipment that can better read it and show some proof.

I can make up my own damn opinions all day. They are MY OPINIONS and still at the end of the day I must concede that it's far from conclusive HENCE THE REASON I STILL HAVE QUESTIONS... Oh but you think YOU are just going to wipe all that away with YOUR opinion when I know I can't even fully accept my own if they do not have more facts to back them up.

Boy, you are sure giving yourself and overenthusiastic amount of credit there.

The credit that you are actually due is the fact that you keep me rolling with your futile attempts, whatever the hell is motivating your life.

posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 09:23 PM
First off, I'm not sure if this portrays any of the beings you spoke of, but the late shaman Pablo Amaringo made some of the most gorgeous artwork of shamanic "ecology" around:

Just Google Image search his name for loads more.

Secondly, and more to your point, I actually read an article awhile back that was almost exactly like what you described. Honestly, I had forgotten all about it until I read your thread. I had to search the back of my mind to even remember where I read it, and even then only found it thanks to a disjointed phrase in a Google search. Here is the article:

The Disillusionist: New Spirituality -- Stranger Than Science Fiction

Here are a few excerpts from it:

A look at Oshana's website, and even a listen to a random selection of his online class replays, might not suggest that he is much different from any other spiritual teacher or self-professed "enlightened being" on the market. His actual methods and goals have until now been quite well-concealed. This seems to be changing. Lately, Oshana has talked a little less about enlightenment and a lot more about the obstacle to it: the ego. He has described the ego, in graphic and visceral terms, as an octopus whose head is situated in or around the human brain, and whose limbs extend into every cell of the body. This octopus is like an alien parasite taking over a host body: it has almost total control over our thoughts, actions, and perceptions.

At first, Oshana seemed to be speaking metaphorically, but over time, I began to suspect that he was speaking energetically. The ego he was describing was at least somewhat physical. As Thomas cries after the bug is removed from his stomach: "That thing is real??" The ego described by Oshana is a kind of alien implant in the human body, similar not just to science-fiction stories but also to sorcery tradition (the "foreign installation" described in Castaneda's last work The Active Side of Infinity). Whatever its exact nature, and wherever it came from, the octopus-ego has hijacked our life force and is now in almost total control of our lives. Like an invasion of body snatchers, the egos have infested the planet. The enlightenment process is the process of exposing, isolating, and extracting the octopus from our nervous systems, in order that the life force can return to the body and resume a natural and healthy relationship with it. The ego has dethroned the soul, and enlightenment is only possible when the slimy usurper has been outed and slain, and the soul can re-animate the body again.

The "octopus" -- whatever its primary origin -- has insinuated itself into the human nervous system like a foreign "driver" generating its own reality program. Through this program, it is able to hijack our senses, both inner and outer. Our conscious life force or soul is isolated and kept from accessing greater reality, both outside and inside of us. It then becomes fuel for the octopus, both a food source and a means to replicate itself. We have been turned into batteries and livestock. This is spiritual fact, and it is the only suitable context for any kind of spiritual development or training. We are engaged in a spiritual war and what is at stake is our own life force.

And here is a picture accompanying the article:

Not saying this validates it either way, I just thought it was worth sharing and - like I said - kind of taken aback by their similarities.

posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 09:31 PM

Originally posted by CallYourBluff
I'm interested to know why you turn up on these threads. You clearly have no interest in these subjects, but you sure do enjoy calling people ignorant and uneducated. Is it your ego?

Originally posted by Druscilla
3. How old do you think I am?
I was in Full-Time University (16 hours of classes and labs enrollment) at 16.
I won't say what my academic accreditation entails, but, I went to school for well over a decade plus some.
From there, I've embarked on a successful independent career where I essentially make my own hours, attending to a variety of projects and interests with liberties extending to taking two or three vacations a year at most any leisure I desire.
Care to reconsider my age?

Originally posted by Druscilla

Edit: Re: #3: I misread your statement regarding EGO as "age". I'm not infallible.

I find it almost hilarious that in misreading your post about ego Druscilla actually answers your question…

Quite clearly she is here to inflate her own ego. Either that or she has a few underlying issues regarding being the nerdy 16 yo who no doubt suffered a bit of flak at college; and now she’s finally found an avenue to grind that axe she’s been carrying around for so so long - Being disrespectful to anyone and everyone who decide to participate in New Age style threads here on ATS.


reply to post by Druscilla

Okay Druscilla, we get it. You’re smart.

But your attitude is absolutely deplorable and screams out “Look at me people, if nothing else I know stuff and I’m gonna post as many big words, off topic links and insults as possible until you all get the message’.

Pathetic. No matter how much you think someone may be crazy a little respect can go a very long way and believe it or not you may actually learn something.

Let me be the first to say that yes, everyone on this thread recognises that you are a being of vastly superior intellectual prowess. However you claim to stand for science, yet your close minded insulting attitude is the very antithesis of what science based learning is meant to be – knowledge sharing, considering other peoples pov despite the fact it may clash with many of your own pov, at least until such a time that they are completely and utterly proven wrong. And the thing is you cannot say that about any of the claims made on this thread.

You may be clever, but I’ll hazard a guess none of us will ever know your name. You see true scientific genius and those greats that exemplified this – Einstein, Tesla, Sagan, Schrodinger etc all had the ability to think outside of the box and create theories despite the fact there was absolutely no empirical evidence at the time to support such a direction of thought. Many of the greats such as these presented had to wait years if not decades before their theories could be proven. Now I’m not about to say that in 20 year’s time the benefits of shamanic sweat lodges will be proven beyond any reasonable doubt, but science is edging ever closer to what the mystics of many belief systems have been saying for thousands of years. It is simply framed and presented using an entirely different vocabulary.

We live in a universe where the fundamental building blocks of all matter is essentially energy, an energy which may or may not be a particle or a wave. A universe where these buildings blocks blink backwards and forwards in time, and can be in many places at once. A universe where these particular particles are shown to be responsive to the presence of human consciousness. Following this logic one can infer that human consciousness is not bound within the human body, and can in some way effect things beyond the confines of the body. We cannot even define exactly what ‘consciousness’ is, let alone where exactly within the brain it sits. All your EEG machines show is the symptoms of having a consciousness. They do not show consciousness itself.

And…. after all this scientifically proven time travel and teleportation of the fundamental of everything within the known universe; and proof that the presence of a human mind can actually affect these building blocks of the universe, I do not think that it is totally unreasonable that a little ‘magic’ may exist out there.

Originally posted by Druscilla The majority of Alien Contact reports and claims can be described and attributed to subject specific personally subjective Psychological Phenomenon experiences.

Do any of these studies account for the fact that maybe aliens might be targeting subjects who have a particular personality type? Do any of them consider the fact that maybe an experience as traumatic as alien abduction may leave the victim with a specific set of personality traits?

Are these lab induced alien/shamanistic experiences actually conducted on people who claim to have had alien abductions/shamanic flights of fancy and been verified by them as being identical, or were the symptoms of lab induced experiences simply compared to the alien abuductee/shaman experience by some desk jockey penpusher and concluded that they are the same. If so you may as well argue that both the sky and the ocean are the same because they are both blue.

Originally posted by Druscilla
Countdown reaches zero. Doors get opened to puffs of smoke and exclamations of man dude wow man dude wow far-out, and subjects are interviewed in isolation regarding their "travels".
They often detail extrapolations of symbolisms based on their own unique identifier, but, never is there an actual exchange of any valid information indicatory in the least that anyone went anywhere anyone else did to commune anything.

They simply convinced themselves there was some communion, when in fact whatever trip they took was just the the vast universe of their own brain jelly.

Can you provide a link to this study or is this simply your ego-inflated opinion

Originally posted by Druscilla
Name something, anything philosophically, physically, engineering wise, mathematically, culturally, and/or of societal developmental significance other than a long string of works from contemporary musicians that ever came out of these "consciousness expanding" experiences.

Music, Art, Philosophy… Culture itself. Basically anything that involves using ones imagination…. Sagan himself attributed many of his scientific discoveries to his own specific means of expanding consciousness which cannot be mentioned here. One could essentially argue that the rise of humanity is in itself an exercise in expanding consciousness and through this evolved maths science and engineering.

I can tell you right now though that one way not to expand one’s consciousness is through gratuitous mocking of those who one views as their intellectual inferiors.


So after all that all I can say is you’ve made your point. The very nature of what we’re discussing here cannot be proven empirically and nor will it be either through our 5 (16?) senses (which themselves are merely tools with limitations), or through any scientific measuring device which currently exists today.

So let me make a suggestion. Either go back to your ivory tower of empirical evidence from whence you came because you clearly only here to big note yourself and obviously aren’t interested in furthering the discussion/learning process as a whole,


if you feel like sticking around, how about jumping down off your high horse of intellectual superiority, toning down the insults and offensive stereotyping about things you obviously understand very little about and participate like a mature adult instead of displaying the ‘nerd with an axe to grind’ attitude mentality which stains every word you type.

edit on 28/11/2012 by 1littlewolf because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 09:36 PM
reply to post by Druscilla

let me clarify; you had mentioned that....

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by mcrom901

If it was anything more than brain masturbation we'd have whole teams of people camped out in shifts doing sessions in sweat lodges to divine the next great next-gen propulsion systems, architecture, engineering, medical advances, robotics, Informatics, transportation, agricultural development, bioengineering and any other number of sundry specialties and concentrations that could profit were there any merit beyond self gratifying brain masturbation in these states of "expanded consciousness"

so, did you miss the link to the 'published literature'.... ??

unfortunately there have been no follow-ups for more than four decades due to the war on drugs....

but anyways, familiarize yourself with the facts before you spew any such nonsense... read about the computer industry and psychedelics for starters instead of brain masturbating as to what your niece can do...

posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 11:34 PM
i must apologize. i have been sooooo busy, and when i have had freetime, i had things i had to do. so i must reschedule my read and respond til this weekend, then i'll at least be able to fulfill my promise to further the discussion regarding shamanism and alien...ummm...whatevas. i havent had time to read or respond to anything except emails up til now, so i will definately sit down and bang this weekend. sorry if the tread is gonna fizzle out or whatever, i really honestly am otherwise occupied right now. happy holidays.

posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 11:44 PM
btw: i DO look forward to discussion on this topic with open minds interested. seee ya-peeps this weekend.

posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 11:50 PM
in my opinion, all the data from spiritual realm , taken by shamanism or other means like clairevoyance or its modern equivalent RV/CRV, medium and auto-writing.. all these data must be taken with a massive grain of salt.

its not because i do not believe that these kind of interaction exists (between physical and spiritual), but the SOURCE of these information cannot be verified thus the information is highly suspect.

for example :

if you read robert monroe's books about his OOBE experience, it is clear that he is allowed to see only what he is allowed to see, it is clear that some entity (even robert monroe himself admits it) helped him achieve OOBE and beyond. One thing that robert monroe experience is that the entity guiding him can make a reality so real that he cannot differentiate it with reality (example : Monroe's is repeatedly trying to Land his plane over and over, repeated lots of time just like a 'simulation').

so if the entity can devise a 'simulated reality' in the spirit world so real that human cannot differentiate it, then what is reality in spirit world ? is his experience in OOBE a reality or a 'Show' devised by some unknown entities with their own agenda ? is it the truth he is seeing or its all just illusion ?

Human are not just physical. sure some of the materialist would argue against it. but in a sense both sides are wrong. a materialist want to explain everything in material physical world only thus he is doomed to fail, a spiritualist want to explain by adding data gathered from spiritual sources which is unverifiable and subject to massive illusion and lies..

posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 12:02 AM
** little addenum regarding robert monroe's oobe experiences

one funny thing about robert monroe's experience, when he was in his institute he witness lot of happening that can be classified as poltergeist / UFO / apparation and he also witness that some of his people who delved into OOBE develop some kind of '3rd eye' or become a sensitive.

but robert monroe himself , with his deep experience in OOBE , never develop into a sensitive. why ? (monroe received random visions about the future but thats it)

in his later books, monroe tried to 'ask' his guide in spirit realm why he dont develop these sensitive abilities, and their answer is particulary interesting , they said 'if you want we can give it to you, do you want it ?'.. then monroe rejects it (i forgot is it out of fear of the unknown or some other factor). So are these entities 'saving' monroe for other purposes ? eg making the world aware of OOBE and monroe's technique , thus pushing Spiritualism (Astral Projection) into Mainstream Research / Science and public knowledge.

regarding schizoprenia, there is an episode in monroe's book that i think can be related to MPD (multiple personality disorder). In his spiritual walk, monroe was informed that there are lots of past and future lives of monroe (some male some female) and he even talked with some of them. They all said they are 'his' own self. Some of them said if monroe allow it, they can take over monroe's body while he is out of the body , that means using monroe's body without monroe's awareness in it. but monroe decline their offer. but what if that happens ? an unknow spirit(s) who pretend to be yourself and asking permision to use your body ?

again i must remind you that all these 'journals' from monroe with all facts must be taken with large grain of salt as every item of data on that book are from 'spiritual' source so its unverifiable and subject to illusions and trickery.

posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 12:06 AM
** another addenum regarding UFO and Monroe

Since this is UFO forum, i just want to notify readers that Robert Monroe in his books also mention UFO.

a good link regarding this is : ( i think most ATSer are familiar with this link)

Robert Monroe UFO Encounter

Connections between out of body experience and ostensible UFO encounters stem from an experience reported by Robert Monroe, author of Journeys Out of the Body. Monroe's out-of-body experiences, which have been previously mentioned, actually began with an encounter strangely reminiscent of some of the more believable UFO abduction cases.

Monroe himself was not aware of the connection until many years after the following event when he first read Fuller's book on the Betty and Barney Hill case, The Interrupted Journey. There were three facts presented in the book that astonished him.

The first of these was the physical examination that was described as taking place within the saucer vehicle. Secondly, were the beeping noises that the Hills heard, and lastly the blemishes that appeared on the Hill's automobile. Fortunately, Monroe had kept careful records of his experiences and he was able to check his notes for 1958 when this experience occurred.

He was alone one evening, in a little ten-by-ten office, he had built for himself back in the Virginia Blue Ridge mountains. The first strange thing he noticed was a repeating tone about 800 cycles per second. Then it felt to him as if a beam of heat penetrated the walls of his office and hit his body, from a position about thirty degrees above the horizon.

From that point on he was aware of the presence of three or four entities. He was unable to see their forms in detail, although he had a sense he was seeing some forms. He also had the experience of telepathic communication with them lasting for about two and a half hours. Particularly striking for Monroe was the sensation of having a cup-like object placed over his groin precisely as Barney Hill had described! The examination and communication that followed was rather detailed.

Monroe felt the most important sensation was as if his brain were being probed -- as if everything he knew or thought was examined. Of course, he was rather awestruck by the situation and did not make all of the observations which he later thought of. Today, he maintains the examination took place while he was outside of his body, but still in the physical environment of his office.

However, being inexperienced at the time, he did not know how to interpret the event. Now he even hypothesizes the incident may have changed his brain in some way that led to his subsequent out-of-body journeying. Generally speaking Monroe does not associate the out-of-body state with other UFO encounters. He acknowledges the presence of many strange creatures and beings in the out-of-body state, but feels there is no evidence they are related to UFOs.

Only on one other out-of-body trip did he experience anything like a UFO: This happened in the early days of my out-of-body journeys, from the same office. I rolled out of the physical and thought I would go play for a while. It was a beautiful cumulus cloud day. So I went up and was doing power rolls through clouds and things like that. As I came out and circled round this one large cumulus, there was this disk shaped object sitting between two cloud towers. The cockpit was, I would assume, maybe ten or eleven feet in diameter. There were two snake- like heads coming out of it. They were long heads without any shoulders. They could have been mechanical devices. They appeared to be rotating, like rods with helmets on top. I perceived a peculiar sort of frequency coming out of them. I was within two hundred feet. Then I got nervous and just turned around and went home before I was discovered.

These are the only UFO experiences Monroe associates with the out-of-body state. However, he also describes peculiar visions preceded by a hissing sound and a sensation like a valve opening in his brain. Monroe claims these visions have produced accurate scenes of the future in so far as he has been able to verify them. One such vision, which has not yet manifested, describes what might sound like mass UFO landings:

Behind the first wave is row after row of the strange aircraft, literally hundreds of them. They are not like any airplanes I have seen before. No wings are visible, and each machine is gigantic, some three-thousand feet across. Each is shaped like the head of an arrow, V-shaped, but with no fuselage as in our swept-wing airplanes. The V shape is not a lifting surface, but houses the occupants in two or three decks. They sail majestically overhead, and I feel a tingle of awe at the mighty power they represent. I also feel fear, because I somehow know that these are not man-made.

edit on 29-11-2012 by milomilo because: adding formatting and other cosmetic stuff

posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 12:48 AM
I know that this type of talk is a no-go. but it does seem to be getting by, so...

...there was a request for evidence of such altered states might have produced anything of actual value. I often love to recount the story of "crazy kary" Mullis, awarded the Nobel prize for his work in development of the PCR, upon which most biotechnology processes rely. in his biography he is quite vivid in his retelling about his induced visions from which the tech directly proceeded.

you also, dear science fellow in whom I am truly disgusted, might be interested in finding out how our beloved Richard Feynman regarded these things.

do you suppose that Dr Feynman might be qualified to speak on the topic of imaginary dimensions?

posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 12:56 AM

Originally posted by milomilo a spiritualist want to explain by adding data gathered from spiritual sources which is unverifiable and subject to massive illusion and lies..

Possibly a big part of the reason that the highest of the Elohim told humans not to use sorcery or talk to the dead, but then Jesus goes into hell and comes back, salvaging lost souls & he can talk to whichever dead he wants to talk as the story goes.

The religious like to pretend there is a reason it's so taboo other than the fact that people's imaginations are easily misled to spread fear. God established doorways into the spirit world as our guide. Jesus was the doorway into the kingdom of heaven. prayer concerning other people or spirits is still to be directed through Jesus.
It may never have been a question of right or wrong in general, but more of a question of what is right for that stage of mankind.

Today some are still preaching on the net how you shouldn't talk to ETs that might try to contact you through telepathy. Somebody high up knows this stuff is real. They know how to pick up some of the signals & that's why there are so many warnings being funded in the media outlets about aliens being demons. they could be helping us hear them with their equipment but they don't want to help, they want to control completely.

Why? They know the beings. There's history there & they want it to remain quiet.

So they use tactics like playing on our superstitions, our paranoia of parasites, our social weaknesses that discredit us as individuals.

All it is, is more evidence that something is up.

If people high up didn't know about these signals this crap wouldn't be popping up all over the place as much as it is. It's tell-tale.

The most important part of all that is this is solvable... it can probably be proven & found with the right gadgets & the right circumstances.

I have many experiences. No one on here knows me enough to know if it's credible but I would gladly do polygraphs on any of my claims. Lately I have been hearing & seeing a lot of very subtle things but sometimes it's like I'm looking right into his eyes... His big, mossy, wrinkly deep, deep eyes. They look black but there's color in there, there's details, big beaming irises, like his face is so close to mine I could give him a kiss. I have seen him before in the flesh but he was dressed to blend in if seen I guess.

No one can tell me he is not there when I know HE IS RIGHT THERE!

This will pale in the eyes of many compared to other sightings where I have witnesses. I have seen many things. Do you see MUFON people coming to possibly help me really reach him & THEY SAY THEY CARE ABOUT CONTACT?

I can see him, I can feel him. He wants me to understand this, but it's not being made easy. I can't just be told what is real.

NO ONE can be told what is real now or they are a fool if they did not research it for yourself. No politician can simply be taken on their word, no triggers can be pulled without you knowing for yourself that the victim had it coming, not without being completely liable. We're evolved enough to know better than to let others think for us.

When we couldn't critique our own imaginations to protect us from our own sorcery, we had doctrines to tell us it is wrong. We can keep being stuck in biblical war/straying/repentance/sin cycles... or we can grow up & understand our spiritual liability & not give in to deception... not even our OWN deception.

It's a struggle with one's own mind to keep this from getting the best of people when things start happening to them. Not just because people say it's your imagination, but it's a struggle with anger & impatience for answers, compassion for confusion & doubt... a struggle just to keep yourself occupied with the mundane when you see this exotic world of communication potential & crazy possibility. That's just scratching the surface. Why would someone like myself who cares not for a complicated life desire to imagine such frustrating struggles on myself? I have been reeling in anger over this because of a lack of answers but that was actually just working out my own impatience because I must become more observant, I must become more perceptive. I must understand how this beautiful electric blue plasma world I see is actually the one that is real because this life around us, it's the joke of the day... every day.

Sorcery & self deception is a DANGEROUS game but it is a huge part of what we all must learn to fight.

It's not impossible though to understand we can communicate with other spiritual beings & that we are learning how to be what we were meant to be with guidance.

I trust him because he's smart. Clearly, but some think I'd be apt to listen to some fear monger video maker over him, a genius.

Even still, God is our medium.

Deception is always afoot & you should never stop questioning, even yourself.

Who the hell is anyone on here to claim I'm so easily deluded

posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 02:35 AM
This is one of the most interesting threads I've read in some time. Oddly, it has nothing to do with the OP, which is laughable, at best (in my opinion); rather, the responses (most of which do not directly address the OP at all) are of the real interest here. Rarely have I seen a thread as polarized while maintaining some modicum of civility from both sides.

I do hope both factions continue to go at each other - I find it quite enjoyable. Thank you.

Oh, one other thought . . . I notice the original poster has only checked in a couple times stating he/she/it was too busy to have read or respond to any comments over a period of two days and would not be back until the weekend - I think that's for the best. Things are going great without you.

posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 02:08 PM
reply to post by Druscilla

Druscilla without being horrible in any way, why are your posts on these paranormal sorts of forums always so caustic and dismissive? Surely if this isn't your thing then why post on them? Just wondering that's all

Sorry the other poster posted on this topic as I was writing my own
edit on 29-11-2012 by phyllida because: wasn't quick enough!

posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 02:09 PM
and to sirric....if there's an alien consciousness stealing being in your the hell do you sleep nights???

You wouldn't see me for dust!

posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 03:55 PM
reply to post by Druscilla

i of course will read more of this thread, but before i have to go back to work, i will just throw this out there

druscilla, i don't know if anyone reads your links, but they you seem like a bright enough guy..maybe you should look closer at what you are recommending??

the first link is an obvious fallacy; it states that there was no reported contact before 1952 which we all know is false; so it kinda makes the whole thing invalid

second link is just silly; stating that experiencers are all these 'anti-social' fruits. i know, i know, you have not done any real research, but that one alone shoulda been a red flag for ya

just to let you know, tho, i think shamanism is something to not be taken seriously. but, if you are going to use links to back up your argument best to research them fully before recommending them to prove your point

edit on 29-11-2012 by julia53 because: spelling

posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 10:58 PM
Fascinating read here. Since Robert Monroe was mentioned I reflected back on a series of books called The Matrix V series from trufax . Much of the information I read from those books really triggered changes within me and provided keys towards awakening. I'll provide a quote from one segment because I feel it parallels the conflict within this thread of the the Body versus the Spirit. Our bodies want us to believe we are our bodies and that when we die, that's it, just black. The Spirit knows a higher awareness but is tied to the vessel and they must work it out. Sometimes, the soul is not very developed and succumbs to the DNA commands and is lost for a while. Anyways, here goes:

Response to question on breaking gender addition loops;

"Breaking loops, ANY loop, requires effort on the incarnation's part. It's one thing to recognize a loop and another to work on breaking it. Your body's ID and DNA commands are trying to entice you to connect with the opposite gender in order to, among other things, short out any genuine spiritual progression. The DNA commands are there to keep you bound to the Game.

True, the fear of pregnancy is something on one’s mind with opposite gender sex, although negligible with the same gender. That one is attracted to their same gender for "energetic company" and a comfort zone not achieved with the opposite gender is evident. Each one is most comfortable with their own gender, as it should be for spiritual compatibility. And now, with the sequentialized/Orionized female, this is greatly enhanced. The union of (especially) Advanced male incarnational energy and any Orionized female is the most spiritually destructive combination. The Orionized females' body ID is designed to subjugate the male and transform (Darkside Pluto energy) the male to her servant. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deceiving themselves.

From what you say, you are dealing with a struggle between body ID and spirit ID. Whatever efforts you make on this are directly effecting your other incarnations, so it must be an incarnational path project. One way to consider breaking this loop is to get therapeutic massages from a male practitioner, and I'm not talking about the wink-wink massage, but a real therapeutic session. With repeated sessions, you should grow more comfortable with same gender touch. Getting massage from the opposite gender would have the opposite effect.

There is a way to enhance one's chakras to transfer energy from the therapist to the receiver. This is something I've developed in my massage techniques. I've used it a several times. If used on a Mid-level male, he will enjoy it because the spirit temporarily wins under my touch, but when it was over (the day after), the body ID took over with full force and the shields were up according to DNA panic commands. Mid-levels are not Advanced and the benefit to them was temporary, although the energy transfer occurred to that Higher Self's energy stream. It was an interesting experiment for me to observe.

When this type of energy is added to a massage session for an Advanced (the more so, the better) incarnation, the spirit is able to take that energy and strengthen shimself over the body ID and further subjugate the DNA command structure. Spirit energy coming from the same gender physical is greatly enhanced. There not only is no draining of energy, but rather an enhancement of both energies. Spirit energy, involving opposite genders, is very different. The female is physically enhanced due to her natural succubistic nature (as discussed in an earlier segment) and the male is somewhat drained and subdued by it.

When receiving therapeutic massage, one must be relaxed and open to the session for it to function. If one is tense and fears the session in any way, it cannot work properly.

You do not get a loop broken by "not trying". An experiential loop was created by your incarnation, or even a series of incarnations. Take the smoking loop, a very destructive one on many levels. The body warned the incarnation that it was no good when it started. Next it becomes addicted (loop formed). It takes a lot of effort to break this loop. It must be a conscious effort. Success in loop breaking brings major rewards and new paths/experiences open to you for it. ‘Not trying’ is a deception by the body ID which fears the spiritual ID taking over.

This same-gender addiction loop you're trying to break is an ancient one and a fundamental one of the DNA command structure. While bisexuality is common, the bisexuals favor the opposite gender. This is because the Orion model is bisexual in matters of sex, but that's considered a biological function. Actually, their same gender sexual romps enhance their sequential spirits to allow them to continue in the opposite gender (in public) mode. The same can be said about Earther bisexuals." - the "Author"

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